And who got my business this time?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I want to get back into brewing my beer.
So I assembles this rather lenghily list of whole grain malts, wheat malts, and crystal malts, and four kinds of hops and cask ale yeast and what not and send the list to a variety of brewery suppliers

I'd been to their sites and after a frustrating time trying to find what I wanted I just sent 'em an e-mail telling exactly what I wanted and asking if the could provide it.

One place said "We should have most of it." and referred me to their website

Another:"Thank your for your inquiry" and informed me a sales person would be getting back to me. Then they e-mailed me an hour later telling me to go visit their site because they don't do E-mail orders.


Another said: "We have what you listed, with the noted exceptions below."
And they made their notations to my list in RED print (with alternatives ) so I could quickly make a decision and even offered other ale yeasts on the chance that I might find some other more interesting.

Yah Number three got the order.
What is wrong with people?

[glenn bradley]

Just because they're selling stuff doesn't mean they know how to run a business. You made the right choice and should let the winner know why.

[Darryl Hazen]

You should also let the losers know why.

[Dan Mages]

Given the current hop shortages, I would not be surprised if they just don't have some of the varieties in stock. I know that my local stores occasionally have problems keeping certain varieties in stock. Grains are another story. Have you tried www.northernbrewer.com? They are one of the bigger internet suppliers.

Dan

[Neal Clayton]

Yah Number three got the order.
What is wrong with people?




1) the people who press the button that jacks the credit card rates up on folks when they carry a balance over a month aren't the bad guy, the same thing probably happens to them all the time, there's a guy across the street who presses the button on their account too. and come the end of the quarter, they'll probably get a meeting with their boss telling them that they aren't pressing the button on themselves enough, and they need to pick it up for the next quarter.

2) the people at best buy who sell the poor sucker coming in for a new TV a 400 dollar power strip and a 200 dollar copper cable aren't the bad guy either, they got told to do so by a guy who gets a bonus every time they steal an extra 600 from some poor sucker looking for a TV. meanwhile that guy who gets the bonus advertises the fact that "you can trust my 18 year old con artist, he doesn't get a commission!".

3) the guy who answers the email at the brewery supply company at 5:30 on a friday probably just got told that "no, you don't get paid overtime for that, and by the way, we're gonna need you to take your laptop home and handle those emails tonight, and come in on sunday too, which you also don't get paid for, but hey we'll remember what a good job of copying and pasting you did when we get around to the next string of layoffs".

in summation, you didn't pick the wrong company, but on the other hand i suspect there are rare occasions when battles are lost because of soldiers instead of commanders ;).

[Dave Johnson29]

You should also let the losers know why.

Darryl,

I totally disagree. Why should we waste more of our time on a business that is making mistakes and can't see it. It is frustrating enough getting those indifferent emails back without feeling an obligation to help them better their business.

For one of my businesses I get inquiries like those emails and it does annoy me, but I copy and paste all the relevant codes and prices from my website and email it back. Invariably it leads to an order. If another company does not want to do that then they must be making a lot more money than I am to be that cavalier.

[Orion Henderson]

Darryl,

I totally disagree. Why should we waste more of our time on a business that is making mistakes and can't see it. It is frustrating enough getting those indifferent emails back without feeling an obligation to help them better their business.

For one of my businesses I get inquiries like those emails and it does annoy me, but I copy and paste all the relevant codes and prices from my website and email it back. Invariably it leads to an order. If another company does not want to do that then they must be making a lot more money than I am to be that cavalier.

X2.

Well said.

[Eric DeSilva]

You guys are being awful high and mighty. Remember that most customers on the internet are shopping for the low price and have zero loyalty. People that want good customer service are typically shopping a brick and mortar store. In order to keep prices low for a web-based business that probably is 99.9% volume ordering, you aren't going to keep a staff around to deal with people who can't be bothered to figure out your website. So what do you do when you have some guy who has never ordered before asking you to quote a lengthy order in an email they probably sent to a number of other businesses as well?

[Mike Henderson]

I understand your point, Eric, but I don't entirely agree with it. For example, I was looking for some veneer (a reasonably large order) and sent an e-mail to several veneer companies asking about what I needed. Several didn't reply. One replied and told me to look at their web site.

One, and only one, (Certainly Wood) replied with the information and made suggestions for what might work best for me. Since that time, I've only ordered from Certainly Wood. I don't even look at the other sites.

I think it has more to do with e-mail than anything else. Many companies are more willing to answer questions by phone but I prefer e-mail. First, it gives me a written record of what the company had to say. Second, it gives me time to think about the reply so if I have to ask another question, I can do a better job. On the phone, I often don't think to ask everything, especially when I have to respond to what the person is saying right then.

So I am loyal to Internet companies who provide good service by e-mail.

Mike

[David G Baker]

Eric,
Not too many "brick and mortar" stores around my area any more due to the Borgs and currently due to the economy.
I shop quite a lot on the Internet and have had very few business get back to me when I E-mailed them with a question. The businesses that do get back to me I save for future reference and pass on the sites to others that are looking for items that are sold by the on-line businesses.
Added: What Mike wrote above.

[Dave Johnson29]

You guys are being awful high and mighty.

Not so Eric,

We are actually helping the good guy in another way by not educating his competitors.

Let's say you were the good guy, would you want me buying from you then telling two of the crappy ones how to improve their competition against you?

The next time I want to order stuff I email around and get good service from you and one other, now smarter, vendor. There is a 50-50 chance I could pick your competitor if all other things are equal. You have just taken a hit to your customer base.

It's natural selection, those least adaptable to change die out. It is the way it should be. :D

[Eric DeSilva]

I think you all have misinterpreted what I'm saying. I'm saying that we caused the problem Cliff is complaining about by the way we shop. It isn't their fault--they are giving us exactly what we, as a society, asked for.

The world started off with brick & mortar stores that were specialized. Sales people were educated about the products and made a living wage.

Then we demanded lower prices. To meet that demand, society created big box stores that drove the specialty stores out of business. These store could price lower because they were chains that bought in bulk, had minimally trained staff, paid lousy wages, and only made a pass at customer service.

But we still demanded lower prices. Instead of shopping locally, we started getting on the internet and comparison shopping. Sure, there are some businesses on the internet that are brick & mortar specialty stores trying to make ends meet, but they can't undercut their own prices. They may still offer decent customer service. So, new internet only businesses started up.

But we can comparison shop easier and easier. Since geography doesn't matter, I can email my product list to twenty suppliers and see who is lowest bid. I can get on websites to compare prices. So, if I'm an internet retailer, what do I do? Cut costs to the bone. Put my warehouse in the middle of nowhere. Hire staff that just packs boxes. Buy in volume, sell product to the 90% of you just looking at prices.

And you guys are telling me the last guy doesn't know how to conduct business? That you are going to "educate" him about customer service? Sure. I think he knows exactly what he's doing. And I think, FBOW, the way we shop, he's going to win. Like it or not, this is the bed we made.

There's another thread with people complaining about Festool controlling its retail pricing. Yet, you will find loads of people here who will sing Bob Marino's praises (myself included). You might argue that in an environment where prices are controlled, Bob has done the smartest thing and made his customer service perfect--because that is the way he can differentiate his business from twenty other internet sites priced exactly the same. Now what happens if you yank the Festool pricing controls? You tell yourself you are going to be loyal to Bob, but when push comes to shove, and someone else can ship you that same TS55 for $150 less, what do you do?

[Mike Henderson]

I understand your point, Eric. I guess I'd rather have a bunch of retailers competing to offer the lowest price than live in a society where the prices of everything are controlled and no one can sell for less than the "official" price.

Each has a downside but I'll take the first one.

Mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Mike and Eric have pretty much summed up my feelings on our present consumer driven society.

If we want knowledgeable motivated staff, the retailer has to train them, and compensate them enough to retain their services.

That costs more than the minimum service type of retail environment.

Unfortunately I think we've become true "consumers", purchasing ever growing amounts of low cost, low quality, short life products.

Now I understand that technology changes, and I'm not suggesting that a vacuum tube TV is better than a new one, however have you ever wondered about simple appliances like a kettle or toaster?

My parents had some chrome and Bakelite GE kettle that lasted 50 years. My Dad replaced a cord or two, however it lasted his lifetime. I've lost track of how many of my small appliances aren't even repairable.

I often wonder about the life cycle costs of the above two appliance types.

Maybe we do need to pay a bit more, get better services and goods and reduce our overall life cycle costs.

I'm not opposed to a company setting pricing and not allowing discounts, I've purchased from Felder and will do so again. The staff are very knowledgeable, and the service Technician extremely well trained. That costs money.

If I don't like their prices I can go to MiniMax or other companies making a similar product.

Regards, Rod.

[Bob Rufener]

Cliff,

I'm with you on this. I can't understand why people who in are a service oriented business do not service clients and prospective clients. An analogy to what you experienced is this: My wife and I decided to recover our old 20 year old linoleum that was starting to show its age. We went to three places and asked for quotes. All three came to our home promptly to measure up the floor area. One business responded within 3 days. Another called back about 3 weeks later to say he was working on our estimate. I told him not to bother as 3 weeks was way to long and I had given the job to another flooring business. I'm still waiting for the third place to provide a quote. Needless to say, we went with the business that responded promptly. Since then, we have given them more business, will give them jobs when the need arises and have recommended them to a number of friends who were equally pleased with their promptness and workmanship.

I work part time at a trailer business. We manufacture a line of utility trailers and sell other manufacturers products. We commonly quote out prices knowing full well that we may not get the business. We do it because it is part of doing business.

I've seen many a business fail because of lousy service.

[Mike Henderson]

Perhaps we're seeing a change in the way information is provided to customers. That is, previously the manufacturer educated the people who worked in the brick and mortar stores, who then passed that information along to the customers.

Today, maybe what's happening is that the manufacturer is providing information directly to the potential customer and the retailer just does the order taking and delivery. So the cost of education is included in the price to the retailer and the retailer takes a smaller slice of the total markup.

Sales channels have to provide certain services but it varies as to who provides the services. For example, when I worked in semiconductors we sold directly to large customers. So we provided all the services in the channel. But for small customers, we supplied product to distributors who sold to those customers. They provided most of the channel services.

With the Internet, we may be seeing a change in how the sales channels work.

Mike

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Darryl,

I totally disagree. Why should we waste more of our time on a business that is making mistakes and can't see it.

And they disappointed me to boot. I owe them nothing.
They should pay me my hourly rate to tell them what they are doing wrong.

[Dave Johnson29]

If we want knowledgeable motivated staff, the retailer has to train them, and compensate them enough to retain their services.


Rod, with all due respect, but this too, misses the point. In the OP the 3rd business did respond promptly and they are obviously running the business well. The others deserve to fail and then look around for someone else to blame.

It is not a philosophical thing, it is about running a business, not just having a business and letting customers buy from you.