Crown Molding & Cathedral Ceilings

[Jeff Beecher]

I am modernizing our home, and putting crown molding throughout. In my great room, I have a 3:12 pitch cathedral ceiling. Any tips on how to make the transition?

[Ben Hatcher]

Jeff,
I don't know of a good formula. Here's a picture of what you're aiming for. I would cut some scrap wood, lay it against the wall and mark the points where the edges intesect.

[Richard Wolf]

Ben's solution does not work with sprung crown molding. I have seen some really good finish carpenters put up crown on vaulted ceilings, but it will require some creative thinking. Basically molding can only change one direction at a time even with a compound cut and you are trying to change two directions.

Richard

[Jason Roehl]

Richard's right. The only way to do it and make the profile continuous is to have an intermediate wedge-shaped piece, point at the top, flat at the bottom. On one side of the wedge, it would be mitered to go from the cathedral plane to the wall plane, and on the other side, it would be mitered to go around the wall-wall intersection. This wedge will be on the wall with the cathedral ceiling.

[David DeCristoforo]

Go into a round room and sit in the corner. If you can figure out how to do that, you might be just the person to figure out how to transition crown from a straight level run into a sloping ceiling with only one miter. It's stumped at least twenty generations so far...

[phil harold]

here is another solution
http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/making_pendents.html
http://www.shareaproject.com/pages/imageDetail,p,442,i,7278,00.html

[James Henderson]

I used PerfectCuts (www.perfectcuts.com) to calculate the angles for the transition pieces in my master bedroom, which slopes at 3:12 (104) degrees also. You make the cuts on the flat on your miter saw. Worked well for me - worth the twelve dollars to save me the trouble of figuring out the trig.

Assuming the spring angle on your moulding is 45 degrees, your transition pieces would need to be:
Miter Bevel
35.26 30
4.96 4.94

The arch of the ceiling will be
10.0 9.85

Jim

[Bob Wingard]

Go to Lowe's .. get this book .. read it thoroughly .. follow it religiously .. you will get some great compliments on your "impossible" solution to your problem. These guys make understanding & DOING compound miter cuts a fairly simple process. Youdon't ABSOLUTELY need their precision TRU-ANGLE tools, but they are handy, and as reasonable as anything lse out there that will do the same job.

Don't be intimidated .. it's all in the numbers ..

[David DeCristoforo]

"...get this book..."

...um... what book?

[Lit Jones]

I did this in my last house's living room. Instead of following the ceiling line, I created a level plane shelf slightly below the top of the wall all the around the room. Then I created a nice built-up crown detail from the wall to this shelf. I even ran rope lighting up there so that it up-lit the ceiling nicely. It definitely made the room feel and look more formal. I've lost the pics, sadly.

[Richard Wolf]

David, I'm sure this is the book that Bob was referring to;
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=134443-2137-QT20043&lpage=none

It is a excellent, easy to read and follow book.

Richard

[Chip Lindley]

For all those who try to figure compound angles with crown moulding, you are working TOO HARD! Make a jig for whatever saw you are using to cut the crown (CSMS, RAS, handsaw miter box, etc) which tilts the top edge at the angle which it will be attached between wall and ceiling. The jig dials in that angle and negates the need to figure compound angles. 1/2 of the corner intersecting angle must be figured (45deg + or -) for inside or outside corners. (no wall corner is perfectly square) In the case of fitting crown to inside/outside corners, the stock will be held vertically against the fence.

OR in the case of a vaulted ceiling where both pieces of moulding will intersect in the same plane, the stock will be laid flat with the top (ceiling) edge against the fence. Pieces are mitered at 1/2 the angle of intersection.

Don't use TRIG when you can make Geometry suffice! Even a 10" chopsaw or RAS should handle larger crown (5" crown, about 3-1/2" rise) for a finish cut, if the end is roughly precut. For crown over about 5", yer jus' gonna havta GET A BIGGER SAW!

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I'm sure this is the book..."

Ahh... yes. I've seen that. But if you look at the illustration of the crown molding transition between a wall and slopped ceiling, you can clearly see that a third piece of molding is required. You have already pointed this out. There is no way to do it with one miter!

[Chip Lindley]

David, I was assuming (from Ben's drawing) that the moulding was changing from horizontal to pitched, in the same plane. IF the crown is at an inside corner, and also changing to the pitch of the cathedral ceiling, a "decorative" corner plinth block would best be used.

[David DeCristoforo]

"... I was assuming ..."

I am "wit" you. But as I read the OP's question, he is talking bout an inside corner, transitioning into a vaulted ceiling. Ben's drawing assumes a flat wall with no corner which is a completely different condition. The "problem" is that you have to "turn the corner" before you can "go up the hill" so to speak...

[Howard Boehm]

I got this program that I downloaded for 12 bucks called Perfect Cut. It will calculate the miter and bevel for this complex cut as well as many more. See my post http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1201512#poststop

I was so excited to be able to make these cuts 1st time no waste and they fit like a glove.

[Chip Lindley]

Um...well, I the *wedge* transition piece that the "PerfectCuts" program suggests, IS a viable solution to get the crown to meet, but personally, I find it visually gawky!

Consider my proposition that the pitched crown moulding could be *coped* or mitered exactly to the horizontal crown, if only it is *leaned forward* at a greater angle off the wall, to account for the vertical differences in height. The horizontal crown is at a given height, but the adjoining angled end of the pitched crown will be longer. Pitching the cathedral crown forward will allow the heights of the moulding to coincide exactly. All this can be done with a mock-up on the exact pitch, using a sliding bevel gauge to duplicate the angle. Transfer this angle to a jig to hold the pitched crown for mitering. Yes, the cut would have to be compound, and I am still figuring the degree settings. Putting this into words is much harder than drawing it on paper (or actually DOING IT!)

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I find it visually gawky! ..."

That may be somewhat "subjective". Others might think that changing the pitch of the crown might look equally "gawky". If the crown is "leaned forward" would that not result in it "coming off" the ceiling? I'm still unclear on what you are proposing and unconvinced. I would love to see this solved in some way. Maybe you could mock it up the way you see it. As far as I can see at this point, if you want the crown to wrap an inside corner and intersect with a vaulted ceiling and you want to crown in contact with both the wall and the ceiling, you need the transition piece. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this but I am not going to hold my breath!

[bill mullin]

Um...well, the *wedge* transition piece that the "PerfectCuts" program suggests, IS a viable solution to get the crown to meet, but personally, I find it visually gawky!

Consider my proposition that the pitched crown moulding could be *coped* or mitered exactly to the horizontal crown, if only it is *leaned forward* at a greater angle off the wall, to account for the vertical differences in height. The horizontal crown is at a given height, but the adjoining angled end of the pitched crown will be longer. Pitching the cathedral crown forward will allow the heights of the moulding to coincide exactly. All this can be done with a mock-up on the exact pitch, using a sliding bevel gauge to duplicate the angle. Transfer this angle to a jig to hold the pitched crown for mitering. Yes, the cut would have to be compound, and I am still figuring the degree settings. Putting this into words is much harder than drawing it on paper (or actually DOING IT!)

You could make the overall widths of the two crowns match this way, but none of the curves or flats between the top and bottom would match. Flattening out the raked crown would make those facets shorter than the horizontal crown.

[Bob Wingard]

David, I'm sure this is the book that Bob was referring to;
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=134443-2137-QT20043&lpage=none

It is a excellent, easy to read and follow book.

Richard


YUP .. that's the book MEANT to post a link to .. .. victim of brain-fart such that I am !!

[Mike Henderson]

I did crown in a couple of very complex rooms in my house and used the wedge shaped piece to transition between the wall and the cathedral ceiling. Worked great and looks nice. There's just no other way to make the transition that leaves the molding looking "correct".

Mike