spotty jatoba

[jud dinsmore]

i built a vanity top for a customer in florida and these spots - see pics - have started to develop and i'm looking for some help.

the top is jatoba with waterlox original finish. i put 5 or 6 coats on and everything looked perfect when it left the shop. this top was finished in april but has only been in service for less than three months. the homeowner first noticed the large spot behind the faucet after being out of town for two weeks. the other small spots have developed since he first notified me about two to three weeks ago. worst yet, these small spots are develping all over the place - on the vertical rim of the side wall of the undermount sink and on the back splashes and window stools. these seem like unlikely spots to get wet regularly and the homeowner thinks it is water that is doing the damage.

the top is composed of two wide boards but the stools are different pieces as is the backsplash. overall, the wood top jatoba came from a different supplier than the stools and splashes.

also note worthy, i finished two other jatoba vanity tops around the same time (april). both were finished in waterlox and in the same way and no problems with either one of them. i'm also pretty sure that one or both used the same can of finish, so i think i can rule out a bad batch of finish.
the homeowner feels pretty certain that it is water sitting on the surface that is causing these spots. he's recently reported leaving a droplet on the top for 48 hours and after wiping it up he noticed that the outer ring of the droplet stained the top. i've been torturing a sample piece in the shop with water, liquid soap, and suntan lotion (shop essentials). so far, i cannot get anything to imitate what the homowner is getting.
to update my posting from another site - i've been in touch with waterlox (very, very responsive) and they say salt spray will take 4-6 months to breakdown the finish and it will mess up the sheen. she (waterlox) thinks that it has to be some sort of bleach that would be able to affect the finish immediately. i haven't had a chance to test this yet.

any thoughts?

[Thad McCulloch]

The customer has really hard water that's getting on it, and the minerals in the water are somehow contributing to the staining? Your water may not be as hard so you're not seeing the problem.

Try dissolving some calcium and magnesium salts in your water and repeat the test.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Your first pics doesn't look like a water stain at all. Looks more like a chemical stain. I'll bet there's another story to why it's spotting.

[Mike Wilkins]

Personal opinion only here. I think the customer contributed to this stain and is looking for a way to get another from you.
I lived in south Georgia for over a dozen years, so I am familiar with the hard water in those areas.
The type of cleaner the customer used is the likely contributor.

[jud dinsmore]

thanks for the ideas. the customer is a pretty decent person and i'm 99% sure he doesn't have bad intentions.

what about baking soda toothpaste? he updated me that he uses this and that most of the spots are around his side of the vanity. i wouldn't think this would be it but who knows.

[Clara Koss]

i caused spots similar to these with a spray i was using on a lamp metal base.... the wood stain looked similar to those on the photo.... the customer probably did it....sometimes you have to fix it and pretend it was your fault cause you cant prove it wasnt....:mad:

[Howard Acheson]

I suggest you get some of his water for your tests. Also get some samples of whatever else may have gotten on the surface.

Which Waterlox Original product did you use? How did you prepare the surface? How many coats did you apply?

[jeremy levine]

My wife had a leaky perfume bottle burn a whole clear to the wood on her vanity ( which had a professional finish on it). There a lots of harsh products in a bathroom.

[jud dinsmore]

he sent me some new pictures of a larger spot (similar in size to the one pictured above) that just appeared over night. he says that was just water that left the stain and it probably developed inside of 24 hours. i've forwarded it to waterlox for their opinion.

if it is his water, what type of finish would be suitable to recoat his top in? it would have to be done in place so no spray coatings.

thanks,

jud

[jud dinsmore]

howard,

six coats of original sealer/finish applied with a rag (heavy coats). i think (it has been a couple of months) i did a little wet sanding with 600 towards the end to make everything a little smoother but nothing else. i've been over this with waterlox and i think i got enough finish onto the top.

["Tim Quinn"]

This is a long shot, but could it be that the water is acting like a lens and sunlight coming through the window is darkening the wood? It could do that through a waterproof finish, and the fact that the spots are darker at the edges would also make sense.

[jud dinsmore]

tim,

very interesting suggestion.

the homeowner emailed this picture with the others and said that it was a droplet that had sat for a little while (12-48 hours) and that he tasted it to make sure it was water. after his taste-test, he wiped it up but the droplet stained the top around the outside rim of the droplet.

anybody else like this theory?

with all of the other variables and inconsistent happenings this actually makes a lot of sense. i've emailed this to waterlox to see what they think.

[John Harden]

I'm not experienced enough with finishes to render an informed opinion.

On the other hand, I'm shocked that after 11 posts on this subject, noone has thought to compliment you on your work!!! Very nice job on that vanity top!!

I used jatoba to make a crib and dresser/changing table for my first born. It can be a difficult wood to work with, particularly with a router, drum sander or planer. Darned heavy too.

Regards,

John

[jud dinsmore]

thanks, john. i've built a few tops from this stuff and really don't enjoy the process. the weight is mainly to blame.

on the flip side, i recently completed a white cedar fence, outdoor shower, and arbor. aside from it being a softwood - this is my new favorite wood! it is so light that i thought i would have weigh it down to keep it from floating away.

[Keith Christopher]

Jud,

Hop over to homestead finishing and post your question there. Jeff will be more than happy to make suggestion.


Keith

[Phil Thien]

the homeowner emailed this picture with the others and said that it was a droplet that had sat for a little while (12-48 hours) and that he tasted it to make sure it was water.

Kinda skeptical that a droplet that size would last for 12-48 hours, and still remain large enough to provide a positive taste test.

I'd be a little concerned that he says tap water is causing the problem, and that the problem isn't actually MORE pronounced.

I'm in the "he's holding out [some information] from you" camp.