Anyone got their hands on the new Stanley SW planes

[Zahid Naqvi]

My email newsletter from highland woodworking informs me that Stanley has released a new series of Sweet Heart planes. Here's a link to a #4. (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=28343) It has some similarities with the Veritas #4 (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46294&cat=1,41182,48944) but is not a blatant copy. More importantly it is only $20 cheaper in price, I don't know if that is going to be enough money to swing the opinion of a WWer.

[Danny Thompson]

On of their new shoulder/chisel planes is on backorder, due to ship my way next month. We'll see.

[John Keeton]

Zahid, I "sweat" when I use any of my planes! Is the "Sweat Heart" series going to change that?:D

It would take a lot more than this to pull me from my LV planes.

[Jacob Mac]

I have one of the new Stanlety SW 9 1/2 block planes. The cap lever on my Wood River plane snapped in half while I was planing some walnut, so I had to get a replacement. So far I like the plane. It seems to be a solid user.

I have never used a LV or LN block plane, so I can't make any comparison. But I do have the LV BU planes, and those seem to be higher quality.

[Ray Sheley]

Zahid,
If you don't mind a visit to WoodNet, a poster who goes by the name Hergy just posted his experience/impressions on the new #4. Probably worth a look.

[David Gendron]

I read a review from The Shwartz in the last Popular woodworking magazin and he had a good impression of the tool after some minor adjustment! The sole was flat, as the back of the iron and the setting was quick... his only real concern was the blade adjustment knob had to much play, 1 and a bit turn befor it angage and the tote was to bulky!! From what I read, He seems happy with the over all performence of the tool!

[Greg Crawford]

Since I work at Woodcraft, I get to place many of our demo units. One of the new #4 SW's had to be on display so I could take a look. We actually have it on a bench with an 8/4 piece of mahogany for customers to try. The blade needed a little honing, but came fairly sharp. I do agree there is a lot of play in the depth adjuster. Like the Veritas planes, the depth adjustment and lateral adjustment are done with the same lever/screw. However, unlike the Veritas bench planes, the handle on the SW is fastened to the base, not the frog, and the lateral adjustment can be locked in place on the Stanleys. Since I have moved my lateral adjustment on my Veritas BU Jack when changing depth, I thought the lateral locking feature was really nice.

When using the plane, I thought the handle was much too square to be comfortable. This has been the trend on many hand tools since about WWII. I guess it saves production costs to just barely round off handles. I thought it also felt a little loose, and since the plane has some good mass, IMHO, the handle should be secured better.

So far, there have been lots of "test drives", and the blade hasn't been touched again. It's getting dull, but is still producing respectable shavings. This is one area that Stanley seems to have really gotten right, the steel in the blade. I know this is just anecdotal evidence, and only one plane, and just one person's observation.

I haven't looked at the other SW planes, so I can't comment on those. I do know that I would NOT trade my "real" Stanley 4 1/2 SW for a new version.

[Richard Niemiec]

Frankly, Zahid's comment on the price differential to a LV is right on the mark. For me at least, $20 is not material when buying "retail" (e.g., new planes versus used Stanleys), and I can't see the new Stanleys lighting up the marketplace, at least the market that folks here create. To each his own I guess.

[Jerome Hanby]

You know, with the price at about the LV LN level, I bet these models may be aimed at users that like to make sets. If you have all old Stanley planes, then adding one of these gets you close to LV LN level quality and stay with the same brand. Logically speaking it doesn't make much sense, but I have to admit there are times when I think the same way. Nick Engler's Workshop Companion series for example. I bought the one with the drum sander and just couldn't stand it until I found a whole set. Not bad books, but there are better.

Wouldn't be surprised if Stanley brought out a #1 in this new series. I think the general consensus is they aren't of much use (of course there are exceptions), but I bet many people would love to complete their set...

[Joel Moskowitz]

You know, with the price at about the LV LN level, I bet these models may be aimed at users that like to make sets. If you have all old Stanley planes, then adding one of these gets you close to LV LN level quality and stay with the same brand. Logically speaking it doesn't make much sense, but I have to admit there are times when I think the same way. Nick Engler's Workshop Companion series for example. I bought the one with the drum sander and just couldn't stand it until I found a whole set. Not bad books, but there are better.

Wouldn't be surprised if Stanley brought out a #1 in this new series. I think the general consensus is they aren't of much use (of course there are exceptions), but I bet many people would love to complete their set...

Huh? I have used the new planes and their quality is so far below classic Stanley Quality that they don't belong in the same room let alone the same shelf.

It seems to me that other posters are correct.
Given a choice between quality antiques with after market blades, LV, LN, Clifton all of these choices will work better than the new stanleys for either slightly more money or a lot less money and some work. So I don't understand why any informed customer would be interested.

[Sean Hughto]

Amen. Add to that, that given their total abandonment of the field over the past FIFTY YEARS, I wouldn't give the current Stanley a dime of my money. We ought to support those that supported us as far as making excellent quality new planes available - LN, LV, Clifton, Primus, and the myriad boutique and antique supply guys. Stanley churned out pieces of pot metal garbage for the last 50 years that weren't fit for rough carpentry much less fine woodworking. And now that others have paved the way by building a market, the new Stanley's ready to cash in. I hope they crash and burn with this line; they deserve it.

[Eddie Darby]

My email newsletter from highland woodworking informs me that Stanley has released a new series of Sweat Heart planes. Here's a link to a #4. (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=28343) It has some similarities with the Veritas #4 (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46294&cat=1,41182,48944) but is not a blatant copy. More importantly it is only $20 cheaper in price, I don't know if that is going to be enough money to swing the opinion of a WWer.

Thanks for the nice heads-up notice. You made it easy to learn about a new product. Saved me some time!;)

If Stanley apply too much heat to LV they could always up the anti by treating their A2 blades with a Cryogenic dip.

[george wilson]

Re: handles being not rounded enough. This is not a move to save production costs. It is just plain ignorance on the part of Stanley. It wouldn't cost any more to run a better shaped cutter around the work. It is too bad that many tool makers cannot seem to get anyone who has above a 4th.grade level idea of aesthetics. And this does not apply just to Stanley.

Even if a competent designer were to apply for such a job with some of these companies,I am sure the "decision makers" would fail to see the merit in his work,and would not hire him. That's what it,sadly,has come down to these days.

[Jerome Hanby]

Huh? I have used the new planes and their quality is so far below classic Stanley Quality that they don't belong in the same room let alone the same shelf.

It seems to me that other posters are correct.
Given a choice between quality antiques with after market blades, LV, LN, Clifton all of these choices will work better than the new stanleys for either slightly more money or a lot less money and some work. So I don't understand why any informed customer would be interested.

Guess that was my point, they may not be after informed customers. I haven't touched one of the new Stanley's, I based my comments on quality information I've seen here and online reviews.

On the other hand, Stanley started out with incredible products, had them for decades, and thought trashing all of that with their modern products was a great idea. Maybe they think there is a market for multi-hundred dollar hand planes and never thought people paying that much for LNs had real reasons for shelling out that kind of money..

[Jim Koepke]

Re: handles being not rounded enough. This is not a move to save production costs. It is just plain ignorance on the part of Stanley. It wouldn't cost any more to run a better shaped cutter around the work. It is too bad that many tool makers cannot seem to get anyone who has above a 4th.grade level idea of aesthetics. And this does not apply just to Stanley.

Even if a competent designer were to apply for such a job with some of these companies,I am sure the "decision makers" would fail to see the merit in his work,and would not hire him. That's what it,sadly,has come down to these days.

From having experience in a manufacturing environment, this is all too true. I was filling in for the assembly crew while they were learning the construction of a new unit. Being a technician, the machines I built were made to the specs the technician would have to check and set. The technicians loved it. They would choose my machines to test over the ones made by the other assemblers. The production manager came and informed me that they could not allow me to build the machines better than the regular assemblers. I was a bit dumb struck, but that is how some businesses progress in the race to the bottom.

jim

[george wilson]

It is just like I've heard others describe working for the Post Office. If you kept a"clean" route,meaning you delivered all the junk mail,the supervisor was happy,but you made the other schlubs look bad. Then,you were unpopular. If you tossed the junk mail,like a lot of them,then,the supervisor wasn't happy,but the others thought you fit in.

Why is everything in the World so bass ackwards? It is a shame that we breed such mediocrity.

I have met a few"industrial designers". For some reason,one thinks she is God's gift to the design world. The stuff she designs is BORING,BORING,BORING. Yet,she can never bring herself to compliment outside work I have done as a private contractor for the company she works for.

I HATE it when I get drawings from her. She dimensions things in TEN THOUSANTHS of an inch!!! That would take a VERY long time to make.Yet,when I ask her boss about these ridiculous dimensions,some of which are for WOODEN objects,he says"Oh,that's not important,just make it approximate". That kind of crap drives me nuts.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Zahid,
If you don't mind a visit to WoodNet, a poster who goes by the name Hergy just posted his experience/impressions on the new #4. Probably worth a look.

Ray I saw that thread, just the first few posts, then it quickly became a philosophical debate. One of the posters mentioned that Stanley may have introduced this series of planes to enhance their dwindling image. Ultimately they make money at the big box stores and this series might eventually end up there too.
As I had stated earlier if I am spending that kind of money I'd throw in the extra $20 and go with a LV/LN/Veritas equivalent.

[Bill White]

Jim, you know better than to build quality into your product.......;);););)
Bill

[Danny Thompson]

As one of two people in this thread who have put money on the line for one of these, I'll add a few points:

1) The Stanley's aren't as high quality as LV's or LN's, but what is the saying, "90% of life is showing up." I love my Lee Valley's. I love my Lie-Nielsen's. But I sure wish they were offered locally . . . or within 200 miles.

It sounds like the Stanley premium line is being offered in the big box stores. If so, then they must be going for the home handyman/budding woodworker market rather than the "real woodworker" market. I say more power to them. The overwhelming majority of their target customers won't even be aware of LN or LV, and most of the time they'll be looking to buy a plane in a hurry. At least the customer will have a significantly higher quality alternative available to them on a Saturday afternoon than the real junk currently on offer.

2) The reason I opted to try the Shoulder/Chisel combo plane is simple: LV and LN don't offer a comparable model. Our heroes both produced well-reviewed shoulder planes, but the consistently cited limitation in both is that they can not be used on stopped dadoes. The Stanley can. We'll see.

[Matt Wilson]

A
2) The reason I opted to try the Shoulder/Chisel combo plane is simple: LV and LN don't offer a comparable model. Our heroes both produced well-reviewed shoulder planes, but the consistently cited limitation in both is that they can not be used on stopped dadoes. The Stanley can. We'll see.


I think you can sort of do this with the LV model if you remove the toe plate (the bottom part that closes the mouth). I haven't tried it myself, but I think I've seen pictures of it configured this way in FWW.

[James Scheffler]

My email newsletter from highland woodworking informs me that Stanley has released a new series of Sweet Heart planes. Here's a link to a #4. (https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=28343) It has some similarities with the Veritas #4 (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46294&cat=1,41182,48944) but is not a blatant copy. More importantly it is only $20 cheaper in price, I don't know if that is going to be enough money to swing the opinion of a WWer.

Chris Schwarz reviewed this plane in the latest Popular Woodworking. I won't repeat the whole thing, but his conclusion was that it is a pretty good plane. His knocks against it were that the tote is too thick and there is too much backlash in the adjuster. There is a lot of good information in the article about the engineering of the plane, which has some innovative features.

Someone commented that there are no aftermarket blades for these planes. It should be noted that the new Stanleys have 0.125" blades, equal to the comparable LV and LN planes, and they are A2 steel.

Stanley is late to the party, but these aren't cheap knockoffs of LN or LV planes. They designed their own product, and it sounds like it's competive.

Personally, I'm not in the market for a smooth plane, but I am interested in the low-angle block plane. At $100, they are significantly cheaper than the comparable (adjustable mouth) LV and LN options, which are $150 or more.

Jim

[John Keeton]

This thread has generated some very interesting comments. It seems there is a valid argument that Stanley has done enough research to determine that a market exists for their product. As others have noted, there is a vast group of consumers that go to the borgs and buy what they need for their weekend project, or are possibly just new to woodworking. Stanley has a name that is well known. While this community is very familiar with the last 50 years of poor quality, the masses are not so informed.

I think they will succeed with this line of planes. But, in my 60 years, I have learned to make my choices based on track records. I tried to teach my children that they needed to consistently make good choices so that I could trust that the next choice they made would be good. If they made a series of poor choices, then I would not be able to trust the next choice they made, and earning my trust would be difficult.

In this instance, the track records are crystal clear. LN and LV have produced consistently good products, backed with unfailing customer service. They care about their customers.

Stanley, on the other hand, has done just the opposite. I will not have any difficulty with this decision, and no, I am not willing to give them this chance. They have had many of those opportunities over the years, and have failed at nearly all of them - i.e., their track record.

Nonetheless, I do believe they will sell these planes to those folks that walk in the borg, and are simply not aware of LN or LV, and have never held a good plane in their hands. I hope, for the sake of woodworking generally, and those folks specifically, that the planes are decent quality.

[Sam Takeuchi]

The reason I mentioned about replacement blade in other thread is that I do like to use M2, A2 and O1 for different tasks. I often have to work on West African ebony that are abrasive and hard, albeit rather tamely grained, A2 or O1 don't last any more than a couple of minutes before starting to dig on. M2 works fine.

For working end grain, M2 is out. M2's edge often crumbles. So I would prefer O1 or A2. For other grunt smoothing work, I prefer M2 to do the majority of smoothing and then wrap it up with O1 blade to do the final smoothing. No particular reason other than it feels smoother.

From others I can gather, new A2 blade on these new Stanley are pretty good. Yet, I think there is more to a blade than just thickness and the type of metal. Just as standard Stanley bench planes (not the premium ones) come with so called high carbon steel blade, but they don't exactly stand out against Hock or LN replacement blades in terms of hardness and quality. Again, I say that the new A2 blade on those premium planes seem to be of good quality, having option to be able to use blades of different characteristics seem like a major plus. Even among educated and experienced woodworker, many still prefers O1 blades. I, on the other hand, like to swap blades without scientifically explainable reasonings. Simply stuck with A2 for a bevel down smoother, I don't know.

Proprietary type blades always scare me a bit. If they discontinue that product in 20 or 30 years, what am I supposed to do with replacement blades.

However, I have no problem picking up new Stanley premium planes if replacement blade issues wasn't a concern and price wasn't so close to LV #4. I think it's good that they took an initiative to step out of the comfort of mediocrity and spent serious brain power coming up with a new and innovative product.