How do you locate a septic tank?

[Dan Friedrichs]

My folks live on an acerage that was built 84 years ago. They have a private well and septic system. They've been considering building a new garage/shop, and are concerned that the septic tank may be in the way, so they want to locate it.

They hired someone to locate it, but after 2 hours, the crew was unable to determine its location (I have no idea how they attempted to do this).

This acerage has only been owned by 2 other families, both of whom are known to my folks. They called them both up, and neither knows for sure where the tank may be, and neither has ever had the tank pumped (in 84 years of use).

There is a leeching field of sorts on the property, because years ago when some of the land was being farmed, it appears a plow cut part of the network, and there is a small (20'x10') part of a field that is perpetually wet.

Any ideas on how they might go about locating the tank?

[Art Mulder]

I grew up in a country house - 1 acre lot. The location of the septic tank and all the leach pipes was obvious, based on how the grass grew.

Seriously, there were lines of lush grass in the leach field.

That's the only suggestion I have, sorry.

[Bill Geyer]

Most septic tank pumpers carry a small radio transmitter that they flush and then trace with a receiver.
(The kids keep pulling the stake that's supposed to mark where the lid is, and then I have to sheepishly ask to have them use the transmitter when it's time to pump the tank out.)

[Brad Wood]

very carefully :)


seriously...
There are usually access covers/manhole type dealeo's for inspecting/pumping.

The house I'm in has septic, first time for me. There are three covers that are painfully obvious in my yard.
My first summer there I was going over an overgrown area with a rented mower (was it called a billy goat?) and "found" by accident a fourth cover for the sand filter. The mower actually sheared the top of the electrical box that was out there to provide power to the pump.

If you have an area that you think is the drain field / leach field, then I would suggest the tanks are somewhere between the house and that field. I would start by looking through all the vegetative growth in that area, even possibly buried under a layer of dirt.

harder way to go about would be to dig up the area that is wet and find the pipe... then start back digging all the pipe until you find the main infeed into that section, then keep back tracking along the pipe until you come onto a tank... a lot of work, but if you need to find it, that ought to work

maybe i've at least given you some ideas

[Larry Frank]

You could look and see where the line goes out of the house and then if you know where the field is located you should be able to get an estimate. At that point, you will need a shovel.
I am a little surprised that they do not know where it is as it sounds like they have never had the tank pumped out. If you do not pump it out often enough, the solids from the tank can overflow into the field and cause problems. In my case, since I have clay soil which does not drain very well, I can not afford to damage the drainage field.
The people who pump my tank charge extra if they have to search for the tank and the access point on the tank.

[curtis rosche]

the other option, if you can get to the end of the pipes where they go into the house, if you are good friends with an electrician or call one, or know any of the people that youa re supposed to cal before you dig, they have a decive for finding pipes and things, they have a line that they put through the pipe or run beside it. and it has a radio tranmitter. but if you are gonna do that you might as well call a plumber.

the other thing you could do, take a stake and a hammer, lay out a grid on the area you want to dig, if you are sure there are no pipes in the area, and you just want to make sure that the tank isnt in that spot, just hammer the stake into the ground, you will know when you hit it. i think the older tanks are concrete. of course then again, that old and it might just be a stone lined pit with a concrete cap

[Mike Cutler]

In the winter time it's pretty easy. It's the first place the snow melts in the middle of the yard. Not much help right now though.

[Jim McFarland]

If it's a concrete tank with re-bar a metal detector might locate the re-bar -- no idea if this would work -- just another tactic.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Thanks for all the ideas so far. Their house has a full basement, and the drain to the septic tank goes through the basement floor, and while there is a slight grade outside the house, no matter where the tank may be located, there is at least 6' of dirt on top of it. This somewhat rules out all my metal detector ideas, or the shovel idea, or the stick-a-pipe-into-the-dirt-many-times idea.

The wet part of the field is also over ~300' away from the house, so tracing that line back to the tank would be a tremendous undertaking.

There are, of course, no obvious access hatches (and we've looked EXTENSIVELY).

If nothing else, I'm very curious what the tank is made of. When building an addition, we uncovered 3 old cisterns made of brick.

Bill - thanks for the transmitter idea. I hadn't heard of that, so I'll advise them to call around until they find someone with such equipment. That may be the only viable option other than going crazy with a backhoe.

[curtis rosche]

if you are having such a hard time finding it, you should be fine to build. if you know it is atleast 6 ft down, dig with machines till you get to that point, if you need to go that far, after that, go like 2 feet with shovels, just incase of a pipe. a good machine opperator wont go through a septic tank

[Tom Godley]

Mine have always been located so that when the first oil delivery occurs the truck tire breaks through the cover. My leach fields were always at the lowest spot on the property so they stopped working in heavy rains :)

A little septic humor!


The old systems were built many different ways and often used leach tanks vs fields -- so the tops can get covered. Even the oldest system that I had used a settlement tank - that is the part that is pumped. It is normally not too far from the house. I had one tank that was hard to find because the pipes were cast iron and the radio beacon that you flush into the system did not have enough range. Sometimes leach fields were added to improve the system performance and can go off at right angles to the original system.

If they just tried to find it with a metal rod you may have to get them back.
Even the oldest system that I had kept to the 100' from the water source rule - so that will limit the area to look in.

If you have a spot that is actually wet from the system, this should be looked into as it is not a healthy situation.

[David Christopher]

the guy that came out and located mine used a metal rod ground to a point and just stuck it into the ground until he hit concrete...but I live by the ocean and its all sand

[Tom Godley]

Just read your new post 300' ..........wow


The brick cisterns certainly could have been the old leach tanks -- some of mine were brick. They would be abandoned and be rebuilt in another location

[Dan Friedrichs]

Just read your new post 300' ..........wow


The brick cisterns certainly could have been the old leach tanks -- some of mine were brick. They would be abandoned and be rebuilt in another location

I think they were actually used to hold rainwater at one point. They were very close to the house. When digging, we found one had been filled-in, and contained some soveneirs (old glass medicine bottles).

Good point about the cast iron obstructing the radio transmitter - that may also be a problem. I believe the pipe is CI, but we had also found clay pipes associated with the old cisterns.

[Don Abele]

Dan, I've lived in three different houses with septic tanks. Two of them had no obvious access covers. I hired a company that came out and flushed a radio transmitter "peanut" down the toilet and then searched for it outside. The first took about 30 minutes to locate as we had a general idea of where it was at. That tank was over six feet deep. The second took nearly an hour as we had no idea where the tank was as the line exiting the house was under the slab. Each time, once they had a general location of the peanut, they used a steel rod to find the tank. Once it hit concrete, they brought in the backhoe and dug until they found the tank (not even a scratch on the concrete from the backhoe). They then switched to shovels to finish the excavation and find the access cover.

After having each of them pumped we put in risers with above ground access covers. No more searching.

The last house (my current one in Massachusetts) had an access cover above ground. When my city ran the sewer line down our street we decided to convert over from septic to city sewer (bad choice). So we had our old "tank" destroyed and filled. Turned out it wasn't a tank at all, bit a pit lined with hollow core cinder blocks on edge. It was probably 15 feet deep and about 20 feet square. I was amazed but the guys doing the work said it was a pretty common configuration for where I live and the age of the house (50 years old).

Good luck - let us know how it turns out.

Be well,

Doc

[David G Baker]

David Christopher hit the nail on the head. A rod about 36 inches long that will pierce the ground easily is the method that has been used for years to locate septic tanks. It is not infallible because of the possibility of the rod hitting a rock but if it is used correctly you can outline the tank by pressing the rod in the ground until you hit the edges. The covers can be a problem because they are not always located at the tank ends.

[Brent Leonard]

The house my folks owned when I was a kid had a septic whose whereabouts were unknown.

The spetic company dowsed the tank. (I think that is the proper term)
Two divining rods and viola! They found it.

I must add, I am a purely scientific minded person, but I saw it and I saw my parents amazement immediately after their extreme skepticism. Could the septic man have conned my folks, knowing 'kinda' where the tank should be located all along, by using other clues? Perhaps, perhaps not. Many a succesful well digger swears by the method of divining (so do many unsuccesful well diggers!)

Maybe go find the local witch doctor! LOL! I would go with a more scientific method before I put my money on it though.

[Lance Norris]

I did septic work for 5 years. A house built 84 years ago probably has 2 or 3 ceramic crocks. They are about the size of a 55 gallon drum. They are put side by side. They have no baffles to keep the solids from passing thru. The fact that you have a wet spot indicates the general direction, not location. They could be the 300 feet away you stated or right up next to the foundation. There were no standards that long ago. If you cant find where the line leaves the house, the tank (or crock) is almost always on the side of the house where the bathrooms are. Go outside and look for the soil stack coming up out of the roof. This is a good starting point. We were low tech, never using radio transmitters. We would just use our most powerful drain machine and then with one man in the basement running the machine, the other man would go in the yard and listen for the rattle of the snake. This will find tanks 8 feet deep. I only remember one time we were stumped. Good luck.

[Ed Breen]

My first septic tank problem was in the fifties. Our tank just collapsed. It had been made of locust poles tied together sometime in the 1860's. Our next tank was, as described, concrete bloks set on top of each other with the holes forming the drain field. My current tank is covered with a cast iron bar-b-q grill so its never moved and we know where it is. Your best bet may be a plumber who specializes in leaks under the slab. They have specialized listenbing apparatus which will hone in on water running in the pipes if you can't find a peanut.
Good luck, its always abummer!!!
Ed:mad:

[Craig Coney]

Call a private utility locator. They can put a fish tape down the line from inside the house from a cleanout and trace it.

[Jim Rimmer]

Aside from the scientific methods alraedy described, I would vote for:
1. Some old codger that knows how to divine or dowse
2. Follow the lush vegetation usually found on top of the lateral lines

The wet area could be at the end of the lateral lines or it could be a red herring. A house that old may have had a "gray line" added later to handle washing machines and kitchen water to take the load off the septic. But you could start there and work back towards the house if there is a line of greener grass.

[Stephen Musial]

Cut the grass as short as possible then empty a package of miracle grow down the toilet and flush it. After a week or so, the leach field should be darker green and you may be able to work backwards from there.

(We've done that to locate newer fields but I don't know how well it will work on an established field...)

[Stephen Tashiro]

I'm curious about the remark that there is at least 6 feet of dirt over the septic tank. Wouldn't that require an extra strong septic tank? I didn't think they were buried that deep.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm curious about the remark that there is at least 6 feet of dirt over the septic tank. Wouldn't that require an extra strong septic tank? I didn't think they were buried that deep.

Sure they can be. To drain a toilet in a basement, you need to keep the slope. Mine is down 8 feet in this house.

Most surefire finding technique that I know of, is to mow the weeds with a really heavy tractor. Of course, that will usually either cause a need for a new lid, or a new tank...

Seriously though, lost septic tanks that have a light lid are a serious risk. If a metal lid was covered with 2" of dirt 50 years ago, it's just waiting for someone to step on it and take a very nasty fall. Growing up, I heard a bunch of really horrible stories about kids falling into them. Maybe the adults where just trying to keep us kids on our toes, but it left an impression.

[Keith Outten]

Depth of a septic tank is generally based on the frost line in your area. In upstate NY they have a 48" frost line, here in my area of Virginia it is 12" so my septic tank is real close to the surface.

Check your property map, most counties and cities require that all septic tanks are located on the property map. If not call them to see if they have records of septic tanks installed on your property. Some require installers to file reports of tanks installed. Most will list older tanks in the record for the property.
.

[alex grams]

When my parents got a new addition put in their house, they had a front end loader doing some work in the yard and it came across an OLD septic tank we didn't know about. And when I say 'came across' I mean it backed up and dropped its back right wheel into the ground about 5 feet. Kind of funny to see it sitting there for a day while they got another machine to come yank it out.

Other than that anecdote, I don't have any useful advice :(

[Matt Meiser]

Our county health department has records for them but I'd doubt they go back 84 years. I know they did have records for our old house's system which was installed in the early 70's.

Around here, I don't think they put them below the frost line. Many are actually built above ground then buried under a pile of dirt.

There's not a creek, drain, or river nearby, is there? 84 years ago they very well could have just just dumped it right there. I wouldn't involve anyone else in searching that out because things could get ugly if that was the case.

It just sounds odd to me that you could go 84 years without pumping the solids out of a tank or having something get plugged with solids. My parents' leach field only lasted about 40 years before it had to be dug out and replaced because it wouldn't drain anymore.

[Lee Schierer]

There's a way you can find it that is hard to believe. Use wire divining rods...Take two pieces of stiff wire (copper or brass seems to work best, but old steel coat hangers also work) about 24-30" long and bend them in half to form a 90 degree angle. Then hold one wire in each hand, so the wire in your hand is vertical and the legs are above your hands and pointing in front of you. Grip the wires about half way down the vertical leg and just tight enough that they don't slip through your hand. Then walk around the yard. As you cross a pipe containing water the two horizontal legs will swing together as you walk on by they will open up again. It sounds silly but it works.

You can search the internet for wire divining rods and find numerous examples of how to make and use them.

[Dan Friedrichs]

There's not a creek, drain, or river nearby, is there? 84 years ago they very well could have just just dumped it right there. I wouldn't involve anyone else in searching that out because things could get ugly if that was the case.

There isn't, but that is good advice :)



It just sounds odd to me that you could go 84 years without pumping the solids out of a tank or having something get plugged with solids.

Yeah, I agree. I'm having a hard time convincing them to even bother having it located - they seem to think that will result in their "magic" tank not working any longer :)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

84 years ago they probably made the whole thing from green timbers with no access opening.

I had one such in northern maine. Had to be careful not to ride my horse over it.

The radio sonde will locate it - or at least the place where the sonde fails to go further. Chances are also fairly good that it's long ago caved in and is in the funny depression in the property.

[Lee Schierer]

The spetic company dowsed the tank. (I think that is the proper term)
Two divining rods and viola! They found it.

I must add, I am a purely scientific minded person, but I saw it and I saw my parents amazement immediately after their extreme skepticism. Could the septic man have conned my folks, knowing 'kinda' where the tank should be located all along, by using other clues? Perhaps, perhaps not. Many a succesful well digger swears by the method of divining (so do many unsuccesful well diggers!)


Actually it works, I didn't beleive it either until I tried it. The wires will find every waer filled buried pipe in my yard, even if I'm blindfolded and wandered aimlessly around the yard first by another pereson. The millitary actually used this method to locate tunnels in Viet Nam jungles.

[Jim McFarland]

Actually it works, I didn't beleive it either until I tried it. The wires will find every waer filled buried pipe in my yard, even if I'm blindfolded and wandered aimlessly around the yard first by another pereson. The millitary actually used this method to locate tunnels in Viet Nam jungles.

IME, it doesn't work for everybody! When I was a 10 year old, I traveled with my Uncle when property owners asked him to "witch a well" (his term), i.e., use "divining rods/wire" and suggest best location for a new well. Not sure what "it" is, but my Uncle had "it" and I didn't -- at least, I didn't when I was 10 -- maybe I should try again.

To be clear, I'm making fun of myself here and not anyone else or the method -- my Uncle and the property owners believed it and he had enough success that he got frequent requests. I hadn't thought of those trips with my Uncle for years so thanks for renewing fond memories!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim,

I have seen others use it with some great accuracy.

I could never seem to make it work.

[Craig Summers]

Sure they can be. To drain a toilet in a basement, you need to keep the slope. Mine is down 8 feet in this house.

Most surefire finding technique that I know of, is to mow the weeds with a really heavy tractor. Of course, that will usually either cause a need for a new lid, or a new tank...

Seriously though, lost septic tanks that have a light lid are a serious risk. If a metal lid was covered with 2" of dirt 50 years ago, it's just waiting for someone to step on it and take a very nasty fall. Growing up, I heard a bunch of really horrible stories about kids falling into them. Maybe the adults where just trying to keep us kids on our toes, but it left an impression.

It's not just a story

I personally know one family nearby who lost thier father from one last year. He jumped in to save his disabled son. I went to school with thier kids, a great family suffered a terrible loss.

http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/man_drowns_while_saving_his_son/20930/


Published: September 8, 2008

Thomas S. Vander Woude's greatest passions were his Catholic faith and his family, one of his daughters-in-law said.

That love for his family led him to sacrifice his life to save his son's.

On Monday, the 66-year-old Nokesville man died while trying to rescue his 20-year-old son from drowning, Prince William County police reported Monday afternoon.

"I'll miss the joy that he brings and brought," Erin Vander Woude, 42, said of her father-in-law.

Around noon Monday, police say Thomas Vander Woude drowned in a septic tank on his property at the end of Hooker Lane after his youngest son fell in, said Officer Erika Hernandez, police spokeswoman.

He was transported to Prince William Hospital, where he was pronounced dead, Hernandez said.

Joseph Vander Woude, who has Down syndrome, was also taken to the hospital and was in intensive care as of Monday night, the family said.

"He still needs prayers," said Erin Vander Woude, standing on the front porch of her in-laws' house.

Police said the 20-year-old was outside cleaning the family's pool at the time, Hernandez said.

He walked into the yard and the lid on the septic tank apparently collapsed, police said.

The 66-year-old went to his son's help, pushing his way past his son into the tank and began to try to push him out, Hernandez said.

A man who was doing work at the house tried to help, holding Joseph Vander Woude up by his shirt, and yelled for the mother to call 911.

Fire and rescue workers arrived and pulled both men from the tank, Hernandez said. Police said that the father may have been under water for up to 20 minutes.

Thomas Vander Woude, who served as a pilot in Vietnam and later worked as an airline pilot, had seven sons with his wife of 43 years, family members said.

Erin Vander Woude said her father-in-law, known as Pa Pa to his 24 grandchildren, touched many lives, volunteering as a coach at Seton School in Manassas and through his work at Holy Trinity Catholic Church.
She described his as a "life well lived."

Epilogue, Joseph, the son who fell in, is still alive and well, I often see him at Mass where he is an altar server.

Morale of this story as it relates to this topic:
Fix your broken covers correctly.
Its not just a made-up story.