Should I sell my Jointer and Planer and buy a combo??

[Peter Aeschliman]

Hi all,

I'm comtemplating selling my jet 6" jointer and my jet 13" planer (older blue models) and using the proceeds and some extra cash to buy a new Grizzly 10" jointer/planer combo machine.

The reasons, in order of priority:

1) Adding 4" of jointing capacity. I know I'd be giving up 3" of planing capacity, but I almost never run boards through my planer that are bigger than 6" because I use the jointer and planer together.

2) The space savings. My shop is big enough that I can roll the jointer and planer out for use, but I'd prefer to have them stationary with the DC semi-permanently connected (i know I'll have to move the dust port when I transition the machine between jointer and planer modes)

3) It would be nice to get a brand new machine. My jointer and planer work fine, but I have had to spend some time working on them to get them aligned, to keep things moving smoothly (the cranks, etc) and I'm just sick of it. I want a machine I can just turn to and have it work. I swear I spend half of my time in my shop maintaining and working on my tools.

Anyway, I could probably get about $600-$700 total if I sell my jointer and planer on CL. So that's $300-$400 additional out of pocket to get the new machine. I don't balk at that, and I think the benefits are worth it.

I have looked really hard for reviews on the Grizzly 10" combo machine (G0675), but there isn't much out there. I'm assuming the machine is well made, but I can always drive a few hours north to the Grizzly showroom and check it out myself.

What do you guys think? Would you do this?

[Brian Kent]

The one thing I would look at, given your space, finances, and usage, is your enjoyable work flow. Changing from jointer to planer will be a little time consuming. If that is just fine, then I think that's a great idea. It sounds like you are already doing some fiddling with the old equipment.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Thanks for the feedback.

The way I see the workflow thing is this: as my shop is currently configured, I have to roll my machines out and connect the DC as it is. So when I've finished edge and face jointing, I move that machine out of the way and roll out the planer.

I'm guessing it takes me longer to do that than it would take to transition the combo machine to the planing function. But again, I have to go check the machine out at the Grizz facility in Bellingham first. I've heard it only takes 30 seconds or so, and I'm a hobbiest... so I can afford that time I think!! :)

[Frank Martin]

I had a 6" jointer and a 13" lunchbox planer and upgraded to the 12" Grizzly J/P with spiral head. I have zero regrets. I hated the high pitch noise of the lunchbox planer and 6" jointer was just too narrow. 12" J/P is much more of a machine and simply love the spiral head. I guess I am disciplined enough that I never thought the combo impacted my workflow much.

I have never seen the 10" J/P though. If it is anywhere near as good as the 12" I don't think you would regret the upgrade. If it comes with a spiral head, definitely go for it too.

[Ted Calver]

Just went through the same process. Gave my jointer and planer to the SIL and bought a Hammer A3/31....very happy!

[Rod Sheridan]

I purchased a Hammer A3-31, giving up an 8" General jointer and a 14" General planer.

The Hammer planer is absolutely snipe free, and adjusting it for a given depth is a simple as cranking the handwheel to the indication on the mechanical digital display.

It's very nice to have a 12 inch wide jointer.

I haven't regretted it in the least.

Changeover on my machine is in the 30 to 60 second range. No problem whatsoever.

I also enjoy the extra shop space, as my shop is in the basement of a townhouse.

I don't know what kind of a cutter the Grizzly has, however mine has the quick change knives which require no setting. 5 minutes maximum and the knives are changed.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. The Hammer combo was about $2,500 less than the two machines it replaced.

[Curt Harms]

I sold a 6" Bridgewood jointer & Delta 22-580 when I bought the Jet JJP-12. I was in the same situation as you, it sounds like. Pull one out, use it, put it away, pull the other one out etc. etc. ad nauseum. I also don't miss the whine of the universal motor on the Delta planer. I find the changeover less a hassle than moving machines, it's not that big a deal for a hobbyist like myself. If I were full time and doing a lot of jointing & planing, I'd probably have the space for separates. If you haven't done so, the manual for the 10" Griz is available for download. Good luck with your decision.


Curt

[Doug Shepard]

I'll have my PM54 & DW733 up for sale once my Hammer A3-31 gets here. It was a $$painful$$ decision but I could really use the room by going from 2 to 1 machines. Plus the extra 6" of jointer width dont hurt nuthin either.:D

[Peter Aeschliman]

I just watched the demo video on the A3-31. I was sold... until I saw the list price. Holy cow!!

That's about 4x my budget.

[Doug Shepard]

...
That's about 4x my budget.

It's about 4x my budget too but it was the only one I could see fitting into my tight quarters due to the fence design. Most of the other J/P's take up an extremely big space due to the fence design. Sort of makes the space condensing aspect of going with a J/P rather questionable.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I bet you love that tool though!

[Dick Sylvan]

I just watched the demo video on the A3-31. I was sold... until I saw the list price. Holy cow!!

That's about 4x my budget.

It's a great machine. See what kind of deal you can get. Do you pay cash for a car? This is a piece of equipment that will last a lot longer than a car!!

[Jimmy Powell]

I have been a couple of months researching and deciding on a jointer/planer for my garage. I was seriously looking at the 12 inch Jet combo with the Helica Head. I was ready to purchase and went to Wodcraft to make the purchase. When I walked out I had purchased a Steel City 8 inch jointer with helical head, a Steel City 13 inch lunch box planer with Helical head, and a Rikon 14 inch Deluxe Bandsaw and a few other items for less money that the J/P Combo delivered and set up. I am a weekend hobbiest with a shop in one corner of my wife's garage. i am years away from working with wood larger than 8 inches wide.

Just my $.02

[Scot Ferraro]

I bought a Hammer a couple of years ago and could not be happier. Yes, it costs a little more than some separates, but you are getting very high quality and capacity that costs more for similar sizes in standalone machines. Many jointers that are 12 inch standalone cost the same or more than the Hammer J/P. There have been several times already that I have used the full 12 inch width of the jointer and there are several boards that are between 8-10 inches that I no longer have to worry about cutting down before surfacing. As with most tool purchses, the initial cost only hurts until you start using the machine and several months/years down the line it is does not seem all that bad. I think going from 6 inch to 8 inch is not all that significant, but going from 6 inch to 12 inch is a huge step up.

Scot

[jason lambert]

I am in the same boat. I was going to purchase one and had cash in had for the Hammer A3-31 from a hard quote and then the day before I was going to pick it up (I am close to them) they changed the price on me and was playing games. Also I know a couple people that have them and complained about fence flex they don't get true 90 deg all the time since it is supported on one side and some other small issues, when I asked Felder about them they said they never herd of that issue and I personlaay know people that complained. Anyhow never got it.

I will have a combo machine one one day but for the price I can get a nice 8" jointer that takes less room leave it out and roll my lunchbox dewalt plainer out when I need it. I am not sure the combo would save me any room it just would of gave me a 12" jointer, not that, that is a bad thing. The other thing is, it is nice to be able to leave the hight set up on the plainer all the time especally if you are doing several boards with independent machines.

[Danny Burns]

P.S. The Hammer combo was about $2,500 less than the two machines it replaced.

Can you say what the A3 Hammer cost you, or is that a trade secret, since I see that they don't advertise prices at the Hammer site.
Thanks.

[Peter Aeschliman]

The A3 31 is really out of the question for me. Whether I borrow money or pay cash to purchase it, it's still a minimum $3,800 out the door. If I were running a business, I probably wouldn't freak out about the price. Although if I were running a business, I'd probably rent a space big enough for 2 separate machines anyway... which would allow 2 people to work at the same time.

But I spend maybe 10 hours / week in my shop... So the $1k for the Grizzly is reaching the limit of what I feel comfortable spending for a hobby machine!

I know that a Maybach is a state of the art car, but I'll stick with my asian import for my commute, thank you very much!! :)

[jason lambert]

Let us knwo what you find out about hte grizzley. I don't know much about it but someone here had one and I know they liked it. There is also the jet one, the original model had some issues that I saw but I think they revamped it a little, I have not seen a new one.

[Dick Sylvan]

Also I know a couple people that have them and complained about fence flex they don't get true 90 deg all the time since it is supported on one side and some other small issues, when I asked Felder about them they said they never herd of that issue and I personlaay know people that complained. Anyhow never got it.

The other thing is, it is nice to be able to leave the hight set up on the plainer all the time especally if you are doing several boards with independent machines.
I just milled about 15 boards roughly 6"-10" x 3" and between 3' and 7' long. The fence was plenty firm for these fairly large boards. I have never had any problem with the fence. Also with the digital height adjustment, it is easy to return to the exact height or thickness on the planer since it is calibrated in 1/100's of an inch.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Peter,

I did such a thing 4 years ago, sold my Powermatic 54a jointer and Delta DC-380 planer for a MM FS-41E. Best purchase I ever made.. I cannot speak to the Grizzly, the Minimax machine is great.

[Philip Rodriquez]

Ah, if I only knew that I would get this deep in to woodworking... I would have purchased a combo machine... I have over 8 grand in to my TS, Jointer, and Planer... I bet I could have gotten a pretty sweet combo machine... sigh ...

[Rod Sheridan]

Can you say what the A3 Hammer cost you, or is that a trade secret, since I see that they don't advertise prices at the Hammer site.
Thanks.

I paid $4K Canadian..........Rod.

[Roger Jensen]

If you register on the HammerUSA.com site you can see pricing information.

I bought my combo machine a couple of months ago when they were running a special. It was about $3200. If you ask nicely you may be able to negotiate something off the list price.

I have been very happy with it, but frustrated with the cost of add-ons, like the wheels, height gauge, etc.

Roger

[Peter Aeschliman]

Let us knwo what you find out about hte grizzley. I don't know much about it but someone here had one and I know they liked it. There is also the jet one, the original model had some issues that I saw but I think they revamped it a little, I have not seen a new one.

Will do. I'm tentatively planning on going up to the Grizzly showroom in a week to see this machine in person. One thing I just realized that I hadn't even noticed before is that the 10" machine has only a 2 knife cutter head. Not a deal killer, but it definitely makes me wonder how much of a "budget" machine this is and whether I'd be taking a step down in overall quality from my older model Jet machines.

Remains to be seen... I'm almost tempted to buy the machine before selling my old ones, give it a test drive, and if I don't like it, take it back. I don't want to sell my machines first and then horribly regret my decision after buying the grizz. That is assuming Grizzly's return policy would allow me to return the machine.

[Ken Whitney]

Peter,

I'm still using separates, but I have looked at the Jet and Grizzly combo machines. I have a small shop (12x25) and a combo would save some space.

My recollection of the Grizzly was that the fence support sticks out the back quite a bit, making the effective footprint of the unit much larger. Something to check if that is important to you and you get to see the machine in person.

Ken

[Peter Aeschliman]

Peter,

I'm still using separates, but I have looked at the Jet and Grizzly combo machines. I have a small shop (12x25) and a combo would save some space.

My recollection of the Grizzly was that the fence support sticks out the back quite a bit, making the effective footprint of the unit much larger. Something to check if that is important to you and you get to see the machine in person.

Ken

Thanks Ken- I'll definitely check that out. My shop is big enough where I'm not terribly worried about a few feet of floor space. It is small enough that I have to think about it, but it's not a deal killer. My shop is about 25 x 25. The biggest thing is that I have a wall running down the middle of the shop, so it makes the layout a little awkward.

Thanks everyone for your input. It seems that most of you who traded in your separates for a combo machine bought the super high end machines, and not surprisingly, you're very happy with them.

I think the new 10" grizzly is uncharted territory... I have googled every way I know how and I can't find a single review from an owner. I don't like being a ginea pig, but I think in the coming months I'll probably buy this machine and try it out... and return it and keep my separate machines if I don't think it's high enough quality.

Thanks again for your input.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ah, if I only knew that I would get this deep in to woodworking... I would have purchased a combo machine... I have over 8 grand in to my TS, Jointer, and Planer... I bet I could have gotten a pretty sweet combo machine... sigh ...

Sigh, for sure.

Welcome to the club. I went from a General jointer and planer to the Hammer.

Now I'm thinking of doing the same thing with my table saw and shaper. I'm looking at the Hammer B3 Winner with the 49 inch long sliding table.

I could use the space savings, and I'd like a sliding saw/shaper with scoring blade.

When I bought the General machinery I received good quality machinery, it's just that the Euro equipment provides so many more features and capabilities.

The North American style of machinery certainly shows the age of design, the cabinet saw is what 70 years old now?

regards, Rod.

[John Harden]

Rod, agree with your assessment. I just sold my PM-66 and matching 15" planer in favor of a 16" J/P combo and separate, saw/shaper combo with 9.5' slider. I visited local owners' shops near me, went to AWFS to check out the offerings and feel that the modern combo's have come a long way.

Not only do you get the added safety and enhanced capabilities of the slider, but the J/P's are pretty slick too. I was amazed at how effortless and quick it was to raise the cast iron top and how the change over to planer and back again was so easy.

The American cabinet saw is a dinosaur of a design. It was created during a time when people thought nothing of putting themselves and their hands right up close to and in the path of the blade. Modern iterations just create more workarounds to what is an outdated design. We now add shop made sleds, clunky bolt on "sliders", or gadgets to stop a blade when you touch it. Better to re-think how we work and stay out of the path of trouble and well away from moving blades using a Euro slider like what is offered by Felder/Hammer, SCMI/MM, and now Grizz.

OP, I agree with your idea of driving out to check out the machines first hand. People's opinions are one thing, but there is no substitute for seeing it "in the flesh". I checked out the Grizz display and combos at AWFS and was impressed by them. I didn't look that close at the 10" J/P, but on the whole the quality of their offerings seems to have improved quite a lot over the years.

Good luck with whatever you choose!!!!

Regards,

John

[David Colafranceschi]

I have the Technomax 16" jointer-planer and the technomax 315WS sliding saw. The machines work wonderfully. To those who say it is a burden to go between operations simply haven't used them. They are exceptionally well made machines and I have never experienced any snipe. The space saving is great and I believe you get a better machine. I hear all the time about the great old cast iron. My view is that the older machines needed all that cast iron to dampen all the vibration caused by there machines. These European machines are engineered well, put together and balanced exceptionally well. I have seen some of the MM's 12" j-p's in Canada selling for $3500 new, in and around there. How can you go wrong? With the slider, crosscutting is so easy and no need for the Sawstop technology because they were engineered not to have your hands close to the blade. I'm a believer-I think they are great machines.

[Dick Sylvan]

Sigh, for sure.

Welcome to the club. I went from a General jointer and planer to the Hammer.

Now I'm thinking of doing the same thing with my table saw and shaper. I'm looking at the Hammer B3 Winner with the 49 inch long sliding table.

I could use the space savings, and I'd like a sliding saw/shaper with scoring blade.

When I bought the General machinery I received good quality machinery, it's just that the Euro equipment provides so many more features and capabilities.

The North American style of machinery certainly shows the age of design, the cabinet saw is what 70 years old now?

regards, Rod.

Great idea, but think about a longer slider. I think you will be glad. I have the 84" (or whatever) and sometimes wish I had the longer slider.

[Rod Sheridan]

Great idea, but think about a longer slider. I think you will be glad. I have the 84" (or whatever) and sometimes wish I had the longer slider.

I would like a longer slider however it won't fit in the shop. (Basement of a townhouse).

Regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Will do. I'm tentatively planning on going up to the Grizzly showroom in a week to see this machine in person. One thing I just realized that I hadn't even noticed before is that the 10" machine has only a 2 knife cutter head. Not a deal killer, but it definitely makes me wonder how much of a "budget" machine this is and whether I'd be taking a step down in overall quality from my older model Jet machines.

Remains to be seen... I'm almost tempted to buy the machine before selling my old ones, give it a test drive, and if I don't like it, take it back. I don't want to sell my machines first and then horribly regret my decision after buying the grizz. That is assuming Grizzly's return policy would allow me to return the machine.

Hi Peter, I looked at the catalogue information of the 10 inch machine and noted the following;

- small diameter cutterhead with two knives
- made in China
- polyurethane infeed and outfeed rollers
- weight is about 250 pounds
-cast iron tables look fairly thin

the next combo machine that Grizzly sells is more money, and has a 12 inch capacity however

- larger diameter cutterhead with three knives
- made in Taiwan
- steel infeed and outfeed rollers
- weight is about 650 pounds
- cast iron tables look thicker

The smaller diameter cutterhead with less knives has to spin faster than a larger head with 3 knives to achieve the same cutting speeds. Nothing wrong, however there's an enormous difference in the rigidity of a 3" diameter head compared to a 2" diameter head.

Country of origin, well without starting a flame war, Taiwan has a much better reputation in my opinion than China for product quality and consistency.

The poly versus steel roller issue is one of preference as well as lifespan. I don't know anyone who has had to replace a steel roller.

Thickness of cast iron tables, the more expensive offering looks more like the Euro machines. I'm sure the engineers at Felder/Hammer/MiniMax etc have good reasons for spending the extra money on the extra size.

Weight difference, well if they were equivalent machines, and one was simply 2 inches narrower than the other, there wouldn't be a 100% weight difference between them.

In my opinion, you are stepping down in quality going from your separate machines to the model you are considering.

If you up the model to the 12" machines, you have a machine that at least is a better copy of the Euro originals.

Regards, Rod.

[tim young]

Actually I do pay cash for cars. They may not all be brand new, but I don't go into debt. I would not advise going into debt for any combo machine. Pay cash for what you can afford or save up, then buy. IMHO I would join several yahoo forums and listen to what the user discussions are. Issues they are having, customer service, etc... Also, on these forums you will find good used equipment.

[John Coloccia]

For what it's worth, I have the larger Jet combo, and I've been very happy. I didn't really like the Grizzly that much (I have other grizzly tools that I love...I just happened to prefer the Jet over the Griz in this particular case).

The smaller Jet (10", I think) is a different animal. It seemed very cheap and flimsy to me.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Get a Hammer and you'll have a 12" machine

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Funny thing about tool purchases, it seems you only regret buying the compromise options, not the ones that actually offer everything that you want. Nothing against Griz, but I'd spring for the Hammer if at all possible. Felder makes great stuff.

[John Harden]

Funny thing about tool purchases, it seems you only regret buying the compromise options, not the ones that actually offer everything that you want. Nothing against Griz, but I'd spring for the Hammer if at all possible. Felder makes great stuff.

Not surprised to see you chiming in here. YOUR advice convinced me to add 5 HP, VFD motors to my combo purchase. YOUR advice convinced me to spring for electronic height adjustment on not just the shaper and planer, but the darn table saw as well.

I'm afraid to ask your advice on shaper heads and accessories as every time I listen to you it's $1000......

Just yanking your chain Steve. Thanks for the good advice..:)

Regards,

John

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Not surprised to see you chiming in here. YOUR advice convinced me to add 5 HP, VFD motors to my combo purchase. YOUR advice convinced me to spring for electronic height adjustment on not just the shaper and planer, but the darn table saw as well.

I'm afraid to ask your advice on shaper heads and accessories as every time I listen to you it's $1000......

Just yanking your chain Steve. Thanks for the good advice..:)

Regards,

John


LOL! Glad I could help spend a not insignificant bit of your hard earned cash John! When's delivery? Oh, and I do have a few thoughts on tooling... Just thinking out loud here, you ought to try out the EGL so I could use your review to decide if I want one!

[John Harden]

LOL! Glad I could help spend a not insignificant bit of your hard earned cash John! When's delivery? Oh, and I do have a few thoughts on tooling... Just thinking out loud here, you ought to try out the EGL so I could use your review to decide if I want one!

They'll be in country early to mid October and here on the Left coast about a week later.

I saw the DGL and EGL at AWFS. Pretty slick, but lot's of money. I recently added an 8" Dado King bored for Felder, a backup 12" combo blade, Big Lift for the power feeder, couple of zero clearance inserts from Renzetti, 12X18" Polish square, a 12X19 accessory table, two new dial and test indicators, Oneway setup indicator, and I've been making noises lately about a set of Big Squeeze's.

The better half hit me with the raised eyebrow the other day, so I'm gonna cool it for awhile.

On the upside, I sold the old cabinet saw, jointer, and planer and am working my way through the sundry blades, sleds, doodads and other things we seem to accumulate over the years. This made the wife unit smile, so all is well. Darn saw and planer sold in a week, so I'm without for awhile. I should have waited another month.

What would you advise regarding shaper heads? I have the 1 1/4" spindle, versus the 30mm or 3/4" I was thinking of getting the 3/4" as most of the economical cutters are in this range. I definitely need a 3"X4" template following cutter and was leaning toward the Byrd, which they make in a 1 1/4" bore. I'll use this more than just about any shaper cutter, at least for my upcoming projects. The 3/4" cutters will likely handle most of the other shaping work and allow me to get my feet wet. At least, that's my thinking.

Regards,

John

[Steve Rozmiarek]

They'll be in country early to mid October and here on the Left coast about a week later.

I saw the DGL and EGL at AWFS. Pretty slick, but lot's of money. I recently added an 8" Dado King bored for Felder, a backup 12" combo blade, Big Lift for the power feeder, couple of zero clearance inserts from Renzetti, 12X18" Polish square, a 12X19 accessory table, two new dial and test indicators, Oneway setup indicator, and I've been making noises lately about a set of Big Squeeze's.

The better half hit me with the raised eyebrow the other day, so I'm gonna cool it for awhile.

On the upside, I sold the old cabinet saw, jointer, and planer and am working my way through the sundry blades, sleds, doodads and other things we seem to accumulate over the years. This made the wife unit smile, so all is well. Darn saw and planer sold in a week, so I'm without for awhile. I should have waited another month.

What would you advise regarding shaper heads? I have the 1 1/4" spindle, versus the 30mm or 3/4" I was thinking of getting the 3/4" as most of the economical cutters are in this range. I definitely need a 3"X4" template following cutter and was leaning toward the Byrd, which they make in a 1 1/4" bore. I'll use this more than just about any shaper cutter, at least for my upcoming projects. The 3/4" cutters will likely handle most of the other shaping work and allow me to get my feet wet. At least, that's my thinking.

Regards,

John


I think you may have just hit on a way to actually slow time down! No tool for two months, with a big bonus at the end.

I going to look into the Renzetti inserts. I've been making my own, but have never been really impressed with my results. You have been busy on the other stuff too!

For shaper tooling, I think the Byrd is a really good option. I went with a 30mm spindle along with the 1 1/4", so that the Felder tooling is all usable, and I use a fair amount of it, but it really makes no difference IMHO which quality brand is used. As long as you have a set of template guide rings for the Byrd, that sure will take care of several functions. Are you getting a set of tenoning cutters? I don't have any yet, but they are next on my list. The Leitz stuff looks good to me. I also picked up a set of Freeborn cabinet door cutters, but moved the project I bought them for down the list a bit.

Speaking of raised eyebrows from wives, mine just did something very similar, insinuating that she was waiting on me to get on the road, so I guess I better get moving!

[Peter Aeschliman]

Funny thing about tool purchases, it seems you only regret buying the compromise options, not the ones that actually offer everything that you want. Nothing against Griz, but I'd spring for the Hammer if at all possible. Felder makes great stuff.

I totally 100% agree that compromises result in some level of regret. I think that's human nature.

I could save for a year for that machine and have enough cash to buy it. But when it comes time to plop down nearly $4k for a woodworking machine, I won't be able to do it. There are so many other things I'd rather do with $4k!

This is a new thing for me though. I typically don't buy anything because I want he best thing (and am unwilling to make the necessary financial sacrifice to acquire it). But I have learned that much of life is compromise... so the grizz may not be the best machine on the market, but it's the best compromise given my perspective on reasonable cost limits and while enjoying my hobby!

[Paul B. Cresti]

I would suggest not giving up a 6" jointer and 13" planer to get a 10" combo. If you get a combo get nothing less than a 12". If you have the room consider getting a 12" jointer and keeping the 13" planer. Does the planer work well?? Is you only reason for changing to get wider joining capacity??

I have had a router as my jointer, 6" Jet, 8" PM 60 (the real one), 12" dewalt lunchbox planer, 14" General 130-m1 planer and now have a 16" MM J/P. I have saved considerable space, gained a horizontal mortiser and benefited greatly with the Tersa head/knives and get no snipe. Change over is not an issue at all but if I had a larger shop I would have gone with a larger jointer as it is nice to go from machine to machine. My work flow has not been disrupted even when i was doing this full time it is just nice to have machines set up and leave them.

A combo gives you more space and can save you money vs separate units of comparable quality.

[Roger Jensen]

FWIW - My two big tools are a SawStop cabinet saw and the Hammer and they cost roughly the same. I'd buy the SawStop again in a heartbeat but I don't know about the Hammer. I would consider the Grizzly if I had to do it again. The Hammer is nice, but I don't know if it is worth that much more than a Grizzly (or Jet). As I mentioned in other posts, the cost of Felder's options are disgusting.

Roger

[dan lemkin]

I had some issues with my Grizzly JP... and opted for the Minimax fs35. I used the same justification you have - I can't justify spending that much on a machine... and even discussed that issue on a previous thread. I recall stating that even a few problems would be acceptable given the dramatic cost savings...

In the end the hassles were many and the quality differences were dramatic enough that it did not make sense to go with the cheaper model.

Make sure when you consider your purchase that you seriously consider what your time and frustration is worth...

[John Harden]

As I mentioned in other posts, the cost of Felder's options are disgusting.

Roger

I agree that some of them are freakin' sky high. I've found though that if you call, you can usually get a discount. I just bought 5 or 6 things and got about 50% off all of them and this was NOT at the same time I bought the two machines. Some they had lying around in Delaware and some they had to order. Never hurts to ask.

[Larry Lukens]

I bought the Grizzly 12 inch J/P, partly because I don't understand having a 12 inch planer and only a 6 inch jointer, and partly because it's one machine instead of 2.

As I recall, the 10 inch J/P doesn't have a spiral head option, and when i went to the Williamsport store to look at them, I thought the 12 inch just looked better made.

I've put at least 100 bf of white oak plus a fair amount of other stuff through it so far. I love it. It will clean up a white oak board in almost no time. I haven't rotated the cutters yet, and they feel as sharp to my fingers as the new edges.

Conversion is only about a minute; and with a little planning, I can do all my jointing, then all my planing for a project. It's also nice to be able to clean the burn marks off a ripped edge or joint the board for a panel glue-up by taking off about 1/64. Sweet.

I would recommend this to anyone.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Paul, my planer works alright. I get some pretty bad snipe sometimes, even with the roller extensions on the table. Otherwise it works fine. I've had to fuss a lot with my jointer. I have it aligned correctly (FINALLY!), but now when I turn the cranks to raise/lower the tables, it takes a lot of effort... I don't know why... It seems like I have to force the tables to move. Not that big of a deal since I don't need to change the cut depth all that often. But it really bothers me.

My main 2 reasons for considering this trade is

1) 4" of additional jointer width, and
2) Space savings
3) Give my shop layout, I can fit the 10" machine in a spot where it would be stationary, vs having to roll out my jointer and planer for each use (my current situation).

The Jet 12" machine looks pretty darn good, as does the grizzly 12" j/p with the helical head. That's just not in the budget though. I can't justify spending a fortune on this machine, especially given the fact that I already have machines that do the job fine... maybe that's my answer right there!

Dan, my biggest concern is definitely the quality of the grizz. I'll have to make that determination when I see it. But even after looking at it in person, there's really no way for me to know how hard it will be to set the knives and adjust the tables if/when they get out of whack... And I HATE with a capital H having to spend my precious shop time fussing with my machines. I want to do woodworking, not tool maintenance.

As time goes on, I'm feeling more and more undecided on this issue... Maybe I should just give it another year or two and see how I feel then...

Thanks again for your input everyone.

[Peter Aeschliman]

holy cow. I was reading around about the G0675. I just read the owners manual, and in order to adjust the planer bed parallelism, you have to use a forklift to take the machine off of its base and place it up on sawhorses... just to access the components to be adjusted!!

I had to make a similar adjustment after doing a repair to my 13" planer... All of it could be accessed from the underside of the planer while it sat on the ground.

Inevitably, sometime in the coming years, I will need to adjust something. Renting a forklift just to do it seems like a HUGE hassle.

On top of that, it seems like adjusting the beds is no less difficult than my 6" jointer on dovetail ways... and setting the knives is the same procedure as well (set screws, depth gauge)

On the whole, this machine sounds like it will be more difficult to maintain than my current separate machines. I would much rather have a 6" parallelogram jointer with a spiral cutter head so that adjustment and knife-setting is a non-issue. Definitely something for me to think about. This is really a pretty poor design!!

I'm still going to drop by and check out what Grizz has to offer at their store, but I'm pretty turned off by the 10" machine at this point.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I checked out the machine in Bellingham, WA this weekend.

I really like everything except the fence. The size is great, the tables are nice and wide, and the change over is easy. Two things about the fence bothered me, which are clear deal killers.

1) The fence deflects like crazy... You can move it almost half an inch over its length, and probably an eighth of an inch vertically (i.e. it doesn't stay square to the tables). That's a pretty big problem since the whole point of a jointer is to make two flat surfaces that are square to one another

2) The fence clamping mechanism doesn't hold well at all. It's a t-square type setup with the fence rail running along the end of the infeed table... pretty similar to a TS fence. When I was testing the deflection by lightly pushing on the fence, the lever/locking mechanism kept coming loose and the fence would move! Maybe the display model had something wrong with it or was abused... The locking mechanism worked better when I moved the fence to a new location, but there was one spot in particular where it just wouldn't stay locked down.

Not good! In fact, I would consider that a big safety concern because the cutterhead is covered by one of those euro style guards... meaning it's fixed. So if you're edge jointing, the fence slides out, and you lose your balance, your hand could go right into the cutterhead! yikes.

So I think it will pass on the G0675. The 12" combo machine was MUCH MUCH nicer but that's not in the budget. I'll stick with my little 6" jointer and 13" planer. They work fine and there are other shop projects that require my attention first.

I bought a shop fox fence while I was there though... 7' rails. I'm super excited to install it...

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for the update Peter, it's great to learn things about equipment.

Your observations make sense, to reduce costs that much requires some sacrifices.

Regards, Rod.

[Larry Lukens]

Funny thing about tool purchases, it seems you only regret buying the compromise options, not the ones that actually offer everything that you want. Nothing against Griz, but I'd spring for the Hammer if at all possible. Felder makes great stuff.

Since I don't have a commercial shop, and have no commercial aspirations, The 12" Grizzly J/P wasn't a compromise. The spiral cutterhead is great, and switching back and forth takes less time than a bathroom break.

Great thread. Some of us obviously have bigger budgets than others.

[Peter Aeschliman]

The Jet machine looks really nice, and it's essentially the same price as the Griz. Maybe someday.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Since I don't have a commercial shop, and have no commercial aspirations, The 12" Grizzly J/P wasn't a compromise. The spiral cutterhead is great, and switching back and forth takes less time than a bathroom break.

Great thread. Some of us obviously have bigger budgets than others.


Larry, it's only a compromise if you think it is! Sounds like you got the j/p that fits your needs, so for you, it's not a compromise. For someone else, it may be though. I bought a Felder because I wanted a bit different specs. Nothing wrong with either, glad we have an increasing pool of decent combo machines to choose from as there is really no one size fits all combo machine.

[dan lemkin]

still loving my minimax fs35, especially after my digital gauge mod.

[Mike Goetzke]

Peter - I currently have a 6" jointer and 13" planer in my tight spaced garage shop. It takes some practice/technique and extra time but I have used the rotate the board trick to join boards over 6". I too looked at the combos to get more jointer width capabilities and save space. Sorry if I'm repeating but on my current project (entrance door) I have another problem with my planer - it's short beds and light weight made it difficult to face join my long 8/4 stock. These combos seem to have very short beds and might limit the length of board you could work with.

Mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Peter - I currently have a 6" jointer and 13" planer in my tight spaced garage shop. It takes some practice/technique and extra time but I have used the rotate the board trick to join boards over 6". I too looked at the combos to get more jointer width capabilities and save space. Sorry if I'm repeating but on my current project (entrance door) I have another problem with my planer - it's short beds and light weight made it difficult to face join my long 8/4 stock. These combos seem to have very short beds and might limit the length of board you could work with.

Mike

Hi Mike, most of the combo machines offer quick detachable bed extensions as an option.

I haven't needed them yet, although the longest stock I've jointed is about 100 inches long.

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Goetzke]

Hi Mike, most of the combo machines offer quick detachable bed extensions as an option.

I haven't needed them yet, although the longest stock I've jointed is about 100 inches long.

Regards, Rod.


Wow - which brands/models have the extensions?

[Rod Sheridan]

Wow - which brands/models have the extensions?

I don't know about all the brands because I can't remember what MiniMax and Rojek offered, although I looked at the when I bought my Hammer.

Felder and Hammer offer different length extension tables for their machinery.....Regards, Rod.

[John Harden]

Felder sells a variety of them. I bought a 20" long cast iron one for the outfeed of the saw/shaper and a wide aluminum one (same length) for the outfeed of the planer. Jointer bed is 78", so I doubt I'll need one there.

They also sell one that is about 35" or so long that has a support leg. These come in handy for jointing/planing/sawing/shaping those REALLY long boards, especially on the infeed side. You can easily make a fully supported surface over 9" in length if you want.

They work with Felder and Hammer equipment and you can buy bolt on brackets for like $70 or so so you can use them on other machines. I got an extra cast iron one to install on my MM20 band saw.

Regards,

John