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Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 12:40 PM
With the assistance of all you helpful people here, I've come to the realization that I'm simply not going to launch an engraving business at this time. I'm scheduled to be terminated in October, need to make a living to support my family, and am simply not prepared for a career change, yet.

That said, I still want to get into using a laser, initially for a hobby, perhaps then as a side-business. Perhaps I can find my niche while still working in IT.

All of this is to say, I'm wanting to setup a little "laser hobby" shop in my garage. I also want a U.S. made laser. Both Universal and Epilog are at the top of my list, possibly with Epilog a bit higher on the totem pole at this time. Thus, I'm considering a used laser.

I've checked various places online, have identified some that might be close enough to what I'm willing to spend on this, but am seeking advice on gotchas and things to look at/for when buying a used laser. Obviously, I don't want to buy a laser only to find that I have to replace/rechard the laser in 3 weeks.

I want to spend a MAXIMUM of about $10k-13k, and that includes building an exhaust scrubber, work space items, additional tools, and all of the various items I'll need to store substrates, etc.

As a side-note, if at all possible, I'd like to get something at least 40 watts and with a table size that's capable of something over 12" top to bottom. I'm finding some Epilog Legend 32/Legend EX32's that are close to the ballpark. Actually, the Legend 32 on the Epilog site is appealing with a couple exceptions, I'd like more than 30 watts. The reason being, I eventually want to venture into designing and engraving on electric guitar bodies (for fun of course, there's no money there...), and unless I'm misunderstanding, wattage matters when cutting "3D" designs into wood (could be maple, alder, mohagany...).

O.K., that's a LOT more than I intended in typing, but I tend to do that. My real intent was to look for advice on what to/not do in my search for a used laser.

Thanks peeps!

Scott Shepherd
08-26-2009, 12:45 PM
I think you can get a lot of used laser for that price range. I'd be looking at something a year or two old, max, for that price. Don't get yourself too far back into the legacy products. Something 1-2 years old will still be in great shape and in full support from the factory on drivers, etc.

I do know you can get something very nice and newish for that price. Keep looking in the classifieds on this forum. Every so often someone's selling a newer model for cheap.

Mike Null
08-26-2009, 12:58 PM
I'd suggest contacting Mike Mackenzie at CEM Engraving. He's in your neck of the woods.

Rob Bosworth is also a member here who deals in used equipment. He's at Access Business Solutions.

Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 1:05 PM
I think you can get a lot of used laser for that price range. I'd be looking at something a year or two old, max, for that price. Don't get yourself too far back into the legacy products. Something 1-2 years old will still be in great shape and in full support from the factory on drivers, etc.

I do know you can get something very nice and newish for that price. Keep looking in the classifieds on this forum. Every so often someone's selling a newer model for cheap.

Good info. The Legend 32's I've seen are significantly older than that, so perhaps they should be out of the question. Fortunately, I'm not in a hurry to make the purchase, so I can wait it out for the right opportunity.


I'd suggest contacting Mike Mackenzie at CEM Engraving. He's in your neck of the woods.

Rob Bosworth is also a member here who deals in used equipment. He's at Access Business Solutions.

Excellent! Thanks Mike.

By the way, does a 40 watt minimum sound reasonable for my guitar body/wood engraving desire? Or, would I realistically need more power? If I would need more power, this will likely send the price out of my range so I would just forget about that want, for now.

Dan Hintz
08-26-2009, 1:31 PM
Be aware that even at the 45W level, you'll spend a lot of time doing 3D engravings of any real size... 1-2" square design on guitar necks might be 15-30 minutes, but if you plan on doing a 6-12" square chunk of wood, expect to spend hours at your laser with each piece.

Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 1:46 PM
Be aware that even at the 45W level, you'll spend a lot of time doing 3D engravings of any real size... 1-2" square design on guitar necks might be 15-30 minutes, but if you plan on doing a 6-12" square chunk of wood, expect to spend hours at your laser with each piece.

Thanks for the info, Dan. Aside from the time it would require, is that wattage enough to do the job cleanly? What I'm trying to determine is whether I should just forget about the guitar body thing because the laser requirements are going to throw me above my budget.

I also forgot to mention above that I'd like a rotary attachment too. ;-)

Rob Bosworth
08-26-2009, 2:30 PM
It has been our opinion that true 3-D work takes a laser system with a lot of power to accomplish good quality engraving. True 3-D can look pretty good with 100 watts, and look really "burned" with 30 watts.

Also, programming of true 3-D engraving is pretty specialized. It really takes a long time to get the graphics set up to engrave nicely. Each graphic layout can take hours and hours to "tweak" so your laser engraving system does a nice job.

If you want to get a 3-D look, and not have a 100 watt system, or tremendous graphic expertise, you can use the rubber stamp driver on most machines. This will allow you to soften the edges of the engraving, and it will give you a pseudo 3-D look. Using the rubber stamp mode selection, and softening the graphics using half-tones, you can get an acceptable result.

Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 2:41 PM
It has been our opinion that true 3-D work takes a laser system with a lot of power to accomplish good quality engraving. True 3-D can look pretty good with 100 watts, and look really "burned" with 30 watts.

Also, programming of true 3-D engraving is pretty specialized. It really takes a long time to get the graphics set up to engrave nicely. Each graphic layout can take hours and hours to "tweak" so your laser engraving system does a nice job.

If you want to get a 3-D look, and not have a 100 watt system, or tremendous graphic expertise, you can use the rubber stamp driver on most machines. This will allow you to soften the edges of the engraving, and it will give you a pseudo 3-D look. Using the rubber stamp mode selection, and softening the graphics using half-tones, you can get an acceptable result.

Thank you, Rob! I believe I am indeed refering to pseudo 3D, and not real 3D (2.5D?). I'm thinking items like vines, emblems, names, skulls, dragons, spongebob... etc. Well, not sure about the spongebob part, maybe on my guitar.

Is 45 watts sufficient for these type of engravings?

Edit: Here we go, something along the lines of this, but eventually more detail, etc. http://www.lasercuttinginc.us/img/le_21.jpg

Tom Bull
08-26-2009, 3:50 PM
I would call that deeply engraved 2-D as compared to 3-D which would have angled edges to the engraving.

Rob Bosworth
08-26-2009, 4:59 PM
You could accomplish that mark with anything from 25 watts to 100 watts (or higher). That looks to be a fairly deep mark, at least by today's standards. I think most engravers consider .020" deep to be a nice laser engraving in wood. But you should be able to do that with any CO2 laser system with at least 25 watts on up. The only difference would be: you can engrave faster with more power. Power to speed is not directly proportional when figuring out the time it will take to engrave a piece. That is, if a 25 watt laser system will run a 4" dia. graphic on a Stratocaster body in 2.5 minutes, a 50 watt laser will not do the same thing in 1.25 minutes. I would guess you might see a 50 or 60% increase in throughput. The faster you machine goes, the more time it takes to slow the head down, and get it going in the other direction.

Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 5:04 PM
That is excellent news. Thanks again, Rob.

Mike Mackenzie
08-26-2009, 5:43 PM
Bob,

If you would like to send me a pm I have a system here that was repo'ed from a lease it is a 30 watt however it has a rotary, air assist, and cutting table the table size is 24x18.

It is in beautiful condition Hardly used at all

Scott Shepherd
08-26-2009, 6:10 PM
It is in beautiful condition Hardly used at all

Just used by a little old lady on the weekends to make greeting cards to send to her grandchildren :D

Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 6:30 PM
Just used by a little old lady on the weekends to make greeting cards to send to her grandchildren :D

And priced to sell, $3500 OBO. SOLD! :p

Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 7:49 PM
Bob,

If you would like to send me a pm I have a system here that was repo'ed from a lease it is a 30 watt however it has a rotary, air assist, and cutting table the table size is 24x18.

It is in beautiful condition Hardly used at all

Hi Mike. Just checked your website and see that it's a Trotec Speedy 300. I've sent you a PM.

Mike Mackenzie
08-26-2009, 8:00 PM
Scott,

You are really close it was used by a little semi old lady to do wooden pens. The Trotec sales guy really took her to the cleaners.

You know those promises that you can make millions with this machine.

James Rambo
08-26-2009, 8:34 PM
Epilog laser has a used 30 watt legend 32 on their website for 9 grand. And the tube was refurbished in april '09

Bob Savage
08-26-2009, 10:51 PM
Epilog laser has a used 30 watt legend 32 on their website for 9 grand. And the tube was refurbished in april '09

Thanks James. I did send Epilog sales an e-mail about that one a couple days ago, but they're apparently not too hungry for sales right now, as I haven't heard back. :)

AL Ursich
09-04-2009, 7:24 PM
Member Lisa Burger has reduced the price of her Epilog Laser in an effort to sell it sooner. Anyone looking can find it in the Classified Section.

Used Lasers can be a great Asset to a business. I am just seeing more uses for it in my shop.


AL