handsaws for dummies

[dan sherman]

Does anyone know of a website, video, forum thread etc, that could be considered a handsaws for dummies guide?

I know nothing about handsaws, other than I'm eventually going to need some. Thus i need to learn about the different types, brands etc.

[Sean Hughto]

Pick a project that you want to do with handsaws. Let that guide your purchase. We'll be glad to help you spend your money.

For example, do you want to make dovetails?

Large mortise and tenons?

Roughly size stock for clean-up with planes?

Oh, and here's a website with some useful stuff:
http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html

And your first purchase recommendation. Assuming you want to cut joints - dovetails and mortise and tenons for normal sized cabinetry: buy the three Gramercy saws (DT, Carcase x-cut and rip). Those three will do most everything. If you want to size stock, look at LN's new panel saws (rip and crosscut).

[Sean Hughto]

An overview site:

http://norsewoodsmith.com/node/85

[dan sherman]

I'm very much I needed this tool for my last project type of guy. For example my last project was a wood mallet (to use with my new chisels), that had a wedged tenon holding the head on the handle. I used my table saw tenon jig to make the tenon, but I used a POS borg hand saw to cut the slits(?) for the wedges. Needless to say the slits where not square, strait, or pretty.

Most of my hand tool work will be cleaning up, or finishing off power tool work.

So what would be a good hand saw for tenon work? what brands (new or old), price range are we talking?

[Sean Hughto]

I lean much more hand than power, so I'm can't speak from expereince as far as the best saw to "clean up or finish off power tool work." I don't even have a clear idea of what sorts of things that would be. A good general purpose saw for things like wedge kerfs on your mallet or the occasional cut of one sort or another is a japanese dozuki. The Z saw woodcraft sells is decent and fairly priced.

[Richard Niemiec]

Generally a backsaw. These come in a withering array of styles and tooth patterns. If you are just getting started and going "retail," e.g., not considering older saws, the best bang for the buck in a backsaw is the LV Dovetail saw, somewhere around $70 IIRC. I hear LV is coming out with different tooth configurations, but for the money in a new saw you can't go wrong and as you progress with saws it won't go unused.

Another good alternative is japanese saws; the cut on the pull stroke, blades can be replaced (you can't sharpen them without a PhD in sharpening) and they cut smoothly. LV has a good selection, along with Highland Hardware, Tools for Working Wood, Woodcraft and a number of other online sellers.

Stay away from ANYTHING sold at HD, Lowes or Menards or any store like them, you will regret your purchase. But then again, you always have to have a saw to loan out to neighbors and relatives (I recently lent out a Borg-purchased Stanley backsaw to my brother to cut some shoe molding, he asked about borrowing one of my Disstons or Lie Nielsens and I gave him a look that would kill.) That being said, I do have a Stanley gents saw that I bought at a hardware store before I knew any better, and after I sharpened it up a few months ago I reach for it often, so it is generally the sharpening that makes the saw so long as the steel is good.

Which brings me to flea markets and garage sales; I expressed my view in another post recently, but suffice it to say that there are many great old saws out there, all you have to do is to learn how to clean them up and sharpen and you can accumulate a full kit of saws in short order for not a lot of money.

Good luck.

[Richard Niemiec]

PS: Before Rob Lee gets mad at me for overstating the pricing, the LV dovetail saw is only $65, I just checked.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

For trimming off the end of your mallet, I actually got a nice flush cut Stanley pull saw from the BORG. The flush cut means you won't scratch your mallet, and it does cut pretty fast. I use it all the time, cutting the neck heel off of my instruments. Won't scratch the back. For added insurance, if your mallet was finish sanded, you can put a piece of blue tape to protect the mallet wood, but that means a little more sanding on the handle remnant. Depends on what you want to do.

You can find DECENT stuff at the BORG, but no, you won't find a "good" Japan pull saw. Or a low angle plane. So many BORG bashers. No, I don't work for them.

Just my .02.

[phil harold]

but I used a POS borg hand saw to cut the slits(?) for the wedges. Needless to say the slits where not square, strait, or pretty.


Bad craftsman blames the tools
Square and straight is technique
Not necessarily the tool’s fault
Practice makes perfect


Dont let me stop you from buying tools ;)
and there is a right tool for every job
but working with what you got is an option
maybe you just need more practice

[dan sherman]

Bad craftsman blames the tools
Square and straight is technique
Not necessarily the tool’s fault
Practice makes perfect

LOL, I'm not saying I good deal of it wasn't my skill level, but the saw wasn't helping any either.

[Don Orr]

I started where you are not that long ago Dan. Used lousy dull saws for way too long. Then came the internet ! I joined some forums and read a LOT ! Went to www.vintagesasw.com (http://www.vintagesasw.com) and read some more. Went to the Norse Woodsmith site and read some more. I got a saw vise from my FIL after he died but you can make your own. Dug out an old saw and cleaned it a little and "sharpened" it. What a difference ! Cut like butta:D. I have since practiced on a few other saws. I found one of those nice painted saws at a yard sale recently. The Disston etch was clearly visible on the side opposite the painting. It's a 22" D8, 9ppi. Cleaned it up and sharpened it and what a nice saw. I just cleaned up a Keystone Challenger by Disston. It's a 6ppi rip and I used it to rip several boards this weekend that were nearly 6' long at a worksite that has limited power. Worked great ! Even had other guys ask me to show them how to do it.

Moral of the story is if I can do it anyone can. Give it a try and have some fun !

[Richard Niemiec]

Bad craftsman blames the tools
Square and straight is technique
Not necessarily the tool’s fault
Practice makes perfect

In all fairness to the OP, and while I agree with you about square and straight being technique (one can certainly butcher a cut with a $250 Wenzloff as well as with a Borg Buck Bros), some mass market saws can be filed and set such that getting a straight and square cut is very difficult for even the highly skilled, and sometimes its just impossible, especially in fine work. The trick is knowing how to re-file and re-set the saw so it has a chance to perform properly for the intended job purpose.

I sort of look at it this way: the craftsman must know why his tools work and keep his tools properly - in addition to developing the skill to use them; and this is even more important with edge tools that are hand tools. Knowing how to keep a saw, chisel, plane iron, or for that matter, power planer and joiner knives, sharp is an indispensable element of the craft and if you are serious about your work you must learn those skills. With the advent of power tools, carbide tipped circular saw blades and our throwaway mentality, this is often a difficult concept to grasp for many people, but once the epiphany occurs it all becomes clear. Indeed, at the Borg you simply cannot buy a crosscut panel saw (frankly, I've NEVER seen a saw filed rip for sale there) that is capable of being sharpened; the teeth are hardened in the manufacturing process (to the extent you cannot file them) and when dull you throw the saw away. I guess that works for some folks, just not for me.

[Keith Christopher]

Best thing to do.....get some scrap and cut some lines. make straight lines and see how well you can follow them. Mark the line on the face and back then after you saw check both sides to see how you did. a little practice goes a LONG way. My grandfather used to always say "let the saw do the work...." the more pressure you use the more your cut will divert from straight. Just enough to make the cut and no more.

[dan sherman]

ok,

I had some time, and I was able to come up with a short list of issue I have had in the past where the right hand saw would have helped a great deal.



slits for the wedged Mortice & tenon
Mortice & tenon haunches (a real pain with power tools as far as I'm concerned)
small cutouts
any cuts to thick or to big for the table saw (cutting my bench top to size for example)

Based on the list above, would a Carcass saw be the best thing for me to get first?




I have looked at some of the new brands people have recommended above, they are to pricey for me. Well not really to pricey, but to pricey if I want to say in the good graces of SWMBO. Thus I'm looking for saws in the <$50 range, and from what I'm seeing this means I'll be going with used. I have seen Disston, Atkins, & Simonds listed as good brands what others should I consider?


Can anyone recommend a good saw sharpening service (these do exist don't they?)? I've never sharpened a saw before, so I think I should see what a properly sharpened saw feels like before i try my hand at it.

[dan grant]

ok,

I had some time, and I was able to come up with a short list of issue I have had in the past where the right hand saw would have helped a great deal.



slits for the wedged Mortice & tenon
Mortice & tenon haunches (a real pain with power tools as far as I'm concerned)
small cutouts
any cuts to thick or to big for the table saw (cutting my bench top to size for example)
Based on the list above, would a Carcass saw be the best thing for me to get first?




I have looked at some of the new brands people have recommended above, they are to pricey for me. Well not really to pricey, but to pricey if I want to say in the good graces of SWMBO. Thus I'm looking for saws in the <$50 range, and from what I'm seeing this means I'll be going with used. I have seen Disston, Atkins, & Simonds listed as good brands what others should I consider?


Can anyone recommend a good saw sharpening service (these do exist don't they?)? I've never sharpened a saw before, so I think I should see what a properly sharpened saw feels like before i try my hand at it.
i get mine sharpened by a guy in california, he is quite good and is quite the saw nut, his saws go large on ebay, if you want pm me and i will pass on the number

[Martin Peek]

I get my saws filed by Michael in California as well.
I have a few different saws and found a 12pt xcut handsaw to be the most useful.

I highly recommend Bob Rozaieski's podcast about sawing. The tips he gave helped me. http://logancabinetshoppe.weebly.com/podcast.html

Good luck!