Help me pick my next LN tool

[Dan Sink]

For Valentine's Day and Father's Day, I asked my wife for Lie Nielsen gift certificates. I'm up to $100 in gift certificates. I've got a birthday coming up for which I'm going to ask for another gift certificate. Then there is the anniversary, then Christmas, etc. etc. You guys get the point. I want to save up until I can get a really nice tool. Of course, the more expensive tool I get, the more and more gift days I have to devote to asking for LN gift certificates.

So I'm just curious, what would you guys save for if you were in my shoes. I already have the 60-1/2 low angle block plane. Other than that, you can safely assume that any of LN's tools would be a welcome addition to my small arsenal of hand tools. Additional useful information is that my next big planned project is to build a simplified version of the french workbench in Schwartz's book. Ultimately, I just want to be able to build a variety of useful furniture for my house and for family members.

So I was thinking a #7 would be nice to flatten that workbench top, but that would require a lot of gift certificate saving. So maybe its better to get a #4-1/2 to smooth that workbench top and get an old jointer off of eBay? Or maybe the low angle jack is the way to go? Of course, I'd love to get a set of LN chisels as well. And a shoulder plane sure seems like it'd come in handy down the road. Of course, a rabbet plane would also be nice.

Just as a fun exercise, if you guys were me - what would you save your gift certificates to get?

[George Clark]

My vote goes for the low angle jack. A useful and very versatile plane. Lots of performance options are available by just changing the angle of the micro bevel.

Keep those certificates coming.

George

[Mike Henderson]

I would not use the certificates on a #7. I'd use them on tools that need the precision that LN gives you. Others might disagree with me, but I think a Stanley #7 will joint quite well.

If you smooth with a plane, a #4, or 4 1/2, would be good.

For the shoulder plane, you should look at the LV medium shoulder plane before you make a decision. Also, I have the LN rabbet block plane and don't use it very much. I probably would not buy it if I had to do it over again.

A set of LN chisels would probably get a significant amount of use. They're good chisels.

Mike

[Matt Evans]

As a guy who spends all day using a whole variety of woodworking tools, tailed or not, and has a halfway decent collection of hand tools to pick and choose from for most tasks, I would say that the medium shoulder plane is the tool I would be buying. So handy to have, so versatile, so well made...

Of course, I don't have one, not being able to justify replacing my wooden rebates cost wise. When I worked in a larger cabinet shop one of the guys there had one, and it really saved my rear end on a few occasions.

[Richard Magbanua]

It's always fun spending other people's money!

Initially, I'd say the low angle jack. I flattened and smoothed out my roubo with just a no.5 and a straight edge. I got the LA jack to do all of this plus, with an extra blade at 25 deg, I shoot my edges on a shooting board.
But what else do you have? If you already have dimensioning power tools you may think more about hand tools for joinery such as hand saws/chisels. A dovetail saw and carcass saws would see a lot of work on that bench. (I have a prog pitch LN dovetail saw on the way :D) Decent vintage jack planes and smoothers are, for me, a lot easier to find than back saws.

[Henk Marais]

My vote go to a nice set of LN chisels.

Well thats what I want :) and what I would have bought if I had the opertunity.

[Keith Christopher]

Chisels. You will use them again and again and again, much like a block plane. My LN block plane gets more use than any other. And the chisels get used on every project.

[Danny Thompson]

Low-angle jointer, low-angle Jack or chisels.

[Richard Niemiec]

Medium Shoulder (although LV makes a very good one as well), Large Router (everyone needs a router plane, which I find particularly effective for sizing tenons), and the countersink tool, which is not all that expensive and you'd be surprised how much you use it. I have to agree on the bench plane comment above, i.e., that other than the 4 1/2, older Stanleys can be had for much less to do the normal jack and jointing work.

[David Gilbert]

The suggestion about a low angle jack is a good one. If you decide to go low angle you should strongly consider the Lee Valley low angle family of planes. They have a smoother, jack and jointer planes and the really nice feature is that they all use the same blades so you have a lot of flexibility. I have the LV low angle jointer and really like the adjuster (I think it's a Norris style). The LN low angle jack doesn't have a side to side adjuster so you have to use a hammer to level the blade.

Either way you go you will have some nice tools.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Another vote for the medium shoulder plane, if you want something to help your joinery, a 4 1/2 if you want a smoother. Personally, I'd buy the chisels, but I've got chisels on the mind...

[Larry Fox]

Low angle Jack gets my vote. I agree with other poster about looking at the LV medium shoulder plane - a very high quality piece and it is not a plane that gets used as much as the low angle jack (at least in my shop anyway).

[Dan Sink]

Wow, lots and lots of great advice. Glad that I was directed away from the #7, as that was the direction I was leaning. Looks like the medium shoulder plane, LA jack plane, or chisels are the most common responses. Maybe if I go to Lie-Nielsen's website and stare at each one for about 30 minutes each I will be able to decide, but I wish I could have all three.

[Tony Zaffuto]

My favorite LN tools (in order): LA jack, 102 block, #4 HA frog, large shoulder plane, #140 block.

[Mark Roderick]

I'd go for the #7, despite the objections of others.

For one thing, you want it, which is a very important criteria.

For another thing, it's a fabulous tool, gorgeous in its heft and performance. I use my #7 all the time and enjoy it each time.

I also love my low-angle jack, and you couldn't go wrong with that, but if you want the #7 go for it. You will absolutely not be sorry.

Every Christmas and birthday my family asks "What do you want?" and I answer "Tools." They don't believe me and get a "surprise" instead. It's nice to be around fellows who really get the concept.

[Dan Sink]

I'd go for the #7, despite the objections of others.

For one thing, you want it, which is a very important criteria.

For another thing, it's a fabulous tool, gorgeous in its heft and performance. I use my #7 all the time and enjoy it each time.

I also love my low-angle jack, and you couldn't go wrong with that, but if you want the #7 go for it. You will absolutely not be sorry.

Every Christmas and birthday my family asks "What do you want?" and I answer "Tools." They don't believe me and get a "surprise" instead. It's nice to be around fellows who really get the concept.

I do want that #7. It took a lot to convince my wife that allowing me to combine all my gifts this year into one big gift this way is what I really want. I think I've probably got through Christmas before she tires of buying me LN gift certificates. Then I'm back to the same problem you have when it comes to gifts.

[Sean Hughto]

I use my 7's alot. They are good for many tasks beyond edge jointing - from face planing to fitting drawers. I have 2 baileys, one bedrock, and a LN. I came to them over time and all but the LN were well under $100 each (very much users and not collectibles. Anyway, all will do most any job I ask of them. I tend to use the 607 and LN most of the time. The difference in the LN is subtle, but definitely perceptible - it just is smooth and tight in all it's parts and operation. For example, I love how little play there is the blade adjustment and how fine and sensitive it is in setting the blade's projection.

[Raney Nelson]

I'd have to join the 'against the flow' comments and say that a jointer would definitely be the last of my LN tools I'd let go of, and the first one I'd replace. Mike and I apparently see it somewhat differently, but I've always found it much easier to find smoothers and jacks that are sufficiently flat than #7's.

If you need a smoother there are dozens of very viable options from a price range of $20 on up. Jointers are much less common, and in my experience they're MUCH harder to fettle than shorter planes are - flattening a 22" sole is much less forgiving than a 10" one.

YMMV

[Jim Koepke]

My thoughts are leaning toward a good shoulder plane. It is hard to find a quality shoulder plane in the second hand market. It is also a case where I think the modern made examples will do much better than an old Stanley. I own an old Stanley and have tried the modern offerings at woodworker shows. My Stanley works, but the new ones work better. A shoulder plane can also be used like a rabbet plane.

I have bought so many used chisels from so many sources, I can not see a reason to buy new unless one does not have time to clean up old chisels or to make handles when needed. That said, one of the most useful and used tools in a woodworker's shop is their chisels.

A second hand #7 when well tuned will work as well as the current offerings. Depending on its condition and/or who you buy from, there may not be a lot to do to get it into top condition.

A #7 joiner can be hard to fettle, but I did it and there is nothing special about my skills other than perseverance.

If you want a #7 nice and shiny out of the box, then LN may be the way to go. That is $425 compared to $100 or less for an old Stanley/Bailey.

Yes, the old Stanley/Bailey planes may have a lot of backlash on the adjuster. If that is a problem, then buying new may be the cure. Most of the time, the original Stanley blades work as well as my Hock HC blade. They may need to be honed a little more often, no big deal.

I have an old #7 that was fettled and documented for posterity and to help others see how easy it can be.

It was my plan to sell it. It is working very nice, yet could use just a hair of improvement. I am reluctant to let it go even though it is difficult to justify having two #7s in my shop. Maybe one of my grandchildren will get into woodworking, then it will make a great gift.

This is just my opinion and your milage may vary.

jim

[David Keller NC]

If you don't have a jointer, buy that first. This is assuming that you have a workable set of chisels. If not, buy those first and the stones necessary to flatten and sharpen them.

After a set of chisels, the most important set of tools for a hand-tool shop are a set of 3 bench planes, and saws. The planes and saws allow you to process rough lumber - either all of it if you prefer, or the boards that are too wide for your machines.

The 3 necessary bench planes are a fore plane, a jointer, and to a much, much lesser extent, a smoother. You can use a bevel-down #6 or a bevel-down Jack for the fore plane - a bevel up not so much, because of the extreme curvature on the iron necessary to use it as a fore plane. This is an excellent place to put a money-saving #6 Stanley on your bench, because precision, a tight mouth and a laser-flat sole just aren't all that important.

For the jointer, the L-N does offer something over the #7 Stanley other than fit and finish - the L-N #7 will accomadate a 50 or 55 degree high angle frog. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend a HAF on your first jointer unless you know without doubt that you'll be working highly figured curly maple, you have the option of adding one at a later date.

You will need a smoother considerably less than the fore plane or the jointer if you're prepping wood by hand, as only the show surface boards need attention from it. While the L-N 4-1/2 is popular, I don't recommend it for newbies, particularly with a high angle frog. The reason is that it's more difficult to put the ever-so-slight curvature on the iron and center it in the mouth of the plane on the wider blade, and with the wider blade and HAF, the resistance force to planing is much increased. When newbies ask me, I recommend the L-N #4. It's easier to push, easier to maneuver on things like drawer sides, and you can buy a 50 degree HAF if you decide you need it at some later point. In fact, you can just buy the plane with the 50 degree HAF - the blade's narrow enough that while the extra force needed to plane is noticeable, it's not overwhelming.

Generally speaking, I do not recommend bevel up planes as someone's first. It's more difficult to set up the iron with the required curvature (bevel up planes require more curvature than a bevel-down plane for a given shaving thickness), the iron advance adjustment is not conducive to learning to extend the iron on the planing stroke, and on the L-N plane, the lateral adjustment requires a light hammer tap - which adds to the learning curve. The LV bevel-up planes use a Norris mechanism, which is downright impossible to advance the iron on the planing stroke, though they do include a very twitchy lateral adjustment (that's a feature of the Norris mechanism, not a critique of the LV design).

[Prashun Patel]

Every Christmas and birthday my family asks "What do you want?" and I answer "Tools." They don't believe me and get a "surprise" instead. It's nice to be around fellows who really get the concept.

Truer words were never spoken. I feel your pain, Brother. You and I should play Secret Santa this Xmas!!!

[Mark Roderick]

Haha. Yes, that would work.

One of my best birthdays ever, actually, was when I bought my LN #7, left it in the box, and opened it at the table with my family. I was SO happy to receive that gift. My family thought I was nuts.

[lowell holmes]

I agree with Mike, except let me say that I have the LN 4 1/2, but my LA jack plane has replaced it as my go to plane.

[Dan Sink]

Thanks so much to everyone who responded. So much great information, you've all given me a lot to think about. Thanks for all of the input, many of you spent significant time typing out lenghy responses and I really appreciate it. I've read, re-read and digested all of your responses. I just wish everyone would have made it easy on me by all agreeing on just one tool. :D

[Jon Toebbe]

I'll add to the chorus recommending the chisels. I've nearly worn out my welcome at the local Woodcraft fondling the Lie Nielsen bench chisels. Ultimately, they were too rich for my blood so I recently bought the new Ashley Iles MkII (stealth gloat!) and love 'em. But those socket chisels feel sinfully wonderful in the hand. If you were looking to save some money on a set of chisels, I'd whole-heartedly endorse the Ashley Iles. They're lovely, and I smile every time I untie the roll.

But since you're collecting Lie Nielsen gift cards... get the chisels. :D

[Danny Burns]

I would get the next tool that will help you the most in your next project.
A #7 or my choice, a #8 since it has substantially more mass, would be most helpful in building a bench.
However as you have pointed out that this is a lot of Gift Certificates, so you'd better be good, you'd better be nice, cause Santa can't afford to miss a round!;)

[Eddie Darby]

Hey this is a pretty good racket you have going here. Birthday's, Father's day, Christmas ... Ground Hog's day! LOL

I use my LN 4 1/2 all the time, and just enjoy using it whenever I can.

One sweet tool.