Grizzly Planer woes

[Sean Rainaldi]

Hi,

I have a problem with my G0543 planer which has been irritating me for a long time now and has come to a head so I thought I’d post here to see what you experienced folks do. I’m wondering if it’s a problem with they way I am using the machine, the way I have it tuned, or maybe an inherent problem with the planer itself or material problems, most like all of the above…

Anyway the problem is, some (not all) of my boards come out perfect and for the most part I am very happy with this planer – I can get uniform thickness on boards down to less than 1/100th of an inch variance. Some of my boards though, after running through my 8” jointer (and are quite flat on one side after running through the jointer) and then after surfacing on the planer, the ends of the boards about 2 3/8” of an inch from each end, come out of the planer about 2 or 3/64th thinner then the mid section of the board, and this leaves that characteristic ridge, or bump perpendicular to the grain, parallel to the board edges. I realize this could be a problem with warped boards and I know from experience that some boards will almost warp before my very eyes after I rip them and plane one surface down a bit on my jointer prior to dimensioning to thickness on the planer. This could be due to the very high humidity, I live in Michigan and have an open air garage shop. BTY I have been doing nothing but hard maple since I got the planer.

I’m wondering if It’s a problem with material thickness? My manual says I can go down to 3/16” but I have read that some folks don’t like to go less than 4/4 for planning, is the problem that just some boards even if they are 4/4 or ¾ flex easy and are not good candidates for planning? Or maybe a problem with machine set up?

I’d like to follow up with a second related question a bit later, regarding planer sleds, I am starting to build one and experimenting with it for greater than 8” wide boards to use the planer as a jointer, but first I want to see what I can do to mitigate the above before I get on to that issue thanks for any insights.

[Mike Cruz]

Are you talking about snipe?

[Sean Rainaldi]

OK I have heard this term for a long while now, I am fairly new to woodworking, is that what snipe is? Ends of boards thinner than the mid section going through a planer?

[Joe Hathcoat]

Have a look at this.

[Mike Cruz]

If your wood is not supported well upon exiting the planer (especially long boards), after the end has passed the infeed roller, there is nothing to keep the end of the board from "popping up". Look at the illustration above. This makes your "end" thinner than the rest of the board. Just make sure your board is well supported along its entire length past the planer...even slightly eleveated to keep the weight of the board from lifting the end of the board into the cutterhead. My guess is that the boards that you haven't had problems with were either short or you supported those...either by hand or with rollers.

[Steve Jenkins]

As Mike said. Infeed side can do the same thing so make sure you are holding up the end of the board slightly until it is about half way through then go to the other side and hold it up as it comes out.

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks guys.

So Steve, when you say hold up the end of the board, do you mean the end coming out of, or going in to the blades?

[Mike Cruz]

He means, as you feed the board in, lift gently on the end NOT in the planer, and as it exits, lift on the end NOT in the planer...

[Sean Rainaldi]

OK thanks Mike I will try that. What I am trying to understand, why do some boards don't have this problem and others require pressing down? And how can I tell prior to feeding them in to planer the first time?

[Peter Quinn]

No matter how hard I have tried with some planers as far as set up, snipe happens. But it can certainly be minimized with careful setup. I find the most likely cause and the first thing I play with are the bed roller adjustments. For cuts on flattened stock you can set the rollers flush with the table or at best .001-003" proud. This may cause some problems when planing rough stock but excessive bed roller height seems to be the most likely cause of snipe iME.

If that doesn't help, carefully check the infeed roller height, the chip breaker settings (height and tension) and out feed roller height using a gauge block and feeler gauges. Your manual should have a good description of this process, and it may be necessary to make adjustments from time to time as things wear or break in.

It is possible that the chip breaker on those chiwan imports simply cannot exert enough pressure to eliminate snipe in some or all cases, and none of them have a pressure bar on the out feed side. The gentle upward pressure thing certainly works. Don't feel bad about it. I use a 24" industrial planer at work whose bed rollers are set up a bit as it has to plane both rough and flattened boards. It should be possible to tune out the snipe on a machine like that, but it still snipes almost 6" on infeed! I have developed a "relationship" with it, and by applying a bit of gentle upward pressure on infeed the snipe disappears in 90% of the boards I pass.

[Mike Cruz]

Good wisdom, Peter. Also, snipe is another reason I like wide planers like 20"ers. The wider the planer, the more on a diagonal you can send in the board. this sometimes reduces the snipe to a small corner of the board rather than the first or last 4-6".

To answer you question, I think it is the $1,000,000 one. I've never figured it out. From 13" to 20" planers, one manufacturer to the next, they do it on some boards and not others. Maybe there is an answer, but I have seen it on thick boards, thin ones...wide and narrow.

One thing is for certain, it ALWAYS happens when you can't afford it too! When you have a 10' 6" board, it won't happen. When you have a 10' 0" board, you will get it 4 inches on both ends... guess Murphy invented snipe. :mad:

[Sean Rainaldi]

So warped boards don't necessarily cause snipe then?

I have some over 8” wide boards that won’t fit on the jointer so sometimes I try flattening them on the planer, sometimes It works but usually not. So I just built a torsion box – type sled for those boards (like the one in the fine woodworking article '05) and added a fence on the infeed end – instead of the support bars with wedges and stair tape, and shimmed out a board with shims and blue painters tape to make it stable on the sled. It still had snipe on both ends of the board so I am assuming that the snipe was not caused by the sled itself?

[Rod Sheridan]

As Peter indicated, snipe is caused by design or mis-adjustment of the planer.

Go through the planer with a dial indicator or a gauge block and feeler gauges.

Adjust the planer to the manufacturers recommendations.

On two of the Chaiwanese planers owned by friends, I've removed the bed rollers since they couldn't be brought below the table, and on one planer one of the rollers was eccentric.

You won't need rollers if you're jointing wood before planing. Many industrial planers have rollers that are adjustable with a lever or hand wheel so you can use the planer for either type of stock.

Most Euro planers do not have bed rollers.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. Snipe on my home planer is 0.02mm

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks Rod, as a side note, I am comparing the Grizzly Rotacator for 100 bucks and the Harbor Freight Cen-Tech dial indictor and magnetic base combos for 20 bucks. Would the harbor freight package suit my purposes for planer adjustment compared to the rotacator?

HF has two dial indicators and 2 magnetic bases, I wonder which ones would be better, the vertical post on the base is 7" high I wonder if it's too tall to set up the planer...

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=dial+indicator&Submit=Go

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=magnetic+base+cen-tech&Submit=Go

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g1738

[Mike Cruz]

A good rule of thumb is that you get what you pay for. I have found HF stuff not worth it. Especially when you are trying to measuse something down to the thousandth of an inch. The HF one might work, but I woun't expect it to last. Thatis why their stuff is so cheap. Just my opinion about HF. There are others that are completely satisfied with them. Of course, if you can't afford the $100 for the Grizzly, then I guess the HF will do. But if you have the $, get the good one. Not to mention, if there is a problem with the Grizzzly one, their CS is excellent.

[Cliff Holmes]

Sean,

Rather than holding the board by hand, set up roller stands on each side and let them do the lifting. If you *do* hold it by hand, be really careful not to get your finger between the infeed roller/table, it the pressure will crush your finger in a most unpleasant way AND try to pull your hand into the planer.

[Rod Sheridan]

Mike was more polite than I would have been about HF.

If I remember correctly I have a gauge holder and dial indicator from Moore & Wright, works like a charm.

When I owned a jointer with standard knives, I also used it to set the knives.

Regards, Rod.

[Sean Rainaldi]

Thanks guys,

Unfortunately money is very tight for us right now so I just went to HF and bought that dial - stand combo, I guess it's better than nothing.

Anyway I just checked my roller heights. Both the in feed and out feed rollers (on the bed) are anywhere from .004" to .0055" above the bed, is this about right? Or would this height cause snipe?

I have not changed the heights so I believe this is what they were set at, at factory.

The manual says set the roller heights anywhere from .002 to .020, that seems to be a huge variance if you ask me...

One end of the outfeed roller is about .001" lower than the other end...

Manual says for rough stock raise them high, for milled stock set them low, but I'm doing both rough and fairly smooth stock so what's the best setting to reduce snipe on a G0453?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Sean, are you really running rough wood against the bed or are you running wood that's been through a jointer over the bed?

Regards, Rod.

[Sean Rainaldi]

through a jointer over the bed.

Once and a great while I try running rough lumber that is wider than 8" over the bed - too wide for my jonter, and I recently built a planer sled for those and am experimenting with using the sled- planer as a jonter for wide boards, but I have had this snipe problem for a long time and most of my snipe problems with the planer are coming from boards that were already smoothed on my 8" grizzly Jointer prior to planing.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Sean, then you can remove the bed rollers from the planer, since you only have smooth objects against the bed......Rod.

[Mike Cruz]

Sean, I think the bottom line is that it is not a problem with Grizzly, or "your" planer, but rather something that is unfortunately inherant in how a planer works. Will that happen with all planers? No. Will it happen with all boards? No. But it will happen occasionally. If it ALWAYS happens, then there should be some sort of adjustment you can make to minimize snipe. Unfortunately, adjusting your planer to not snipe on 8/4 boards might mean that it will snipe on 3/4 and vice versa. You either live with it, or adjust every time you change thicknesses...again, inherant in the tool.

Or, you could buy a $5000 planer...you MAY take care of the snipe problem. :confused:

[Steve Jenkins]

I have been using european planers for the past 27 years. they haven't had bed rollers and I plane both rough cut and jointed stock. Mostly jointed I admit but even with the rough I haven't had any feed problems. I think that the rollers have the most benefit if the wood is wet. I keep the bed nicely waxed so things slide easily.

[Dave Verstraete]

Sean
I have a G0453Z and was getting the same amount of snipe until I raised the outboard ends of the infeed and outfeed table about an 3/32 of an inch to support the stock.

[Larry Lukens]

I have a Grizzly G0634. I frequently get snipe on the leading edge, but it's too small to measure. I have a digital caliper that reads down to 1/128, and it can't see the snipe, but I sure can after I varnish the piece.

As stated earlier, good infeed support helps. I found that lifting the trailing end of the board slightly helps.

But mostly, I either cut my pieces long so I can lop off the sniped end, or sand it out.