A better bit for hollowing lidded boxes

[Bill Bolen]

First off thanks to Jeff Nicol for his tip on using an old broken drill bit for hollowing. I snapped off a 3/8" bit yesterday and had a light bulb come on over my head and an old dried up brain cell re-activate to a tip Jeff put up many months ago. He has a vid on his site showing how to use a broken drill bit for hollowing so I just followed his lead, I usually use a 1/4" square bit in my Oland tool to hog out the interior of a box. It is very loud. produces dust for shavings and leaves a rough finish that needs a lot of TLC with a good scraper. Not with this thing! After re grinding the drill bit I was getting long streams of lovely curlies flying over my left shoulder. Had a very smooth finish and as far as the wife is concerned was almost silent. Try Jeff's tip out. You won't go wrong....Bill...

[Steve Schlumpf]

Thanks for the reminder Bill! Will give the drill bit a try the next time I get to the lathe - which should be in a couple of weeks! Been building a deck and can't wait to get it finished and get back to turning!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Looking good Bill. Glad to hear it works well.

[Jeff Nicol]

Bill, I use this creation of mine on a daily basis and it will cut end grain better that most anything I have tried! Once the grind is right and the wood is addressed it is as simple as breathing! I figured there had to be a simple easy,cheaper way to make an end grain hollower and this is it!

Thanks again,

Jeff

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Not to throw sand in your face Jeff, but this way of cutting isn't new, I know that turners used the drill bit like that, but also used the upcut router bits for it, shows that great minds do think alike, and also that there's not really anything new in wood turning, it all seems to come around ;-)), still good to bring these things in focus, as for new, it is only if you didn't see it before.

[ROY DICK]

Jeff,
Thanks for you way you help others to make another home made tool.
A face shield helps to keep out sand too.

Roy

[Jeff Nicol]

It seems that some people are never happy and others are grateful for information that they have never seen before. I for one have never seen any other post anywhere that shows the drill bit the way I have started using it. So Leo if it has been around so long how come no one is marketing something like it? You are very biased towards the "ONEWAY" world and that is great but let the rest of us poor guys have our fun the way we want. Being frugal is one of my favorite things and I for one am glad I was able to share it with everyone who wants to give it a try!

Thanks Bob and Roy, Steve and the others who always have a positve spin to put on things, I really hate negativity!


Jeff

[Dick Strauss]

Jeff,
What angle do you find works best for sharpening the nose of the bit (90, 118, 135, or something custom)? Are there any other tricks to the sharpening?

[Bill Bolen]

I think I will let Jeff give you a good angle. Mine is too steep I think but as I said I was just playing. I think something like 50* might work well. I'm going to re grind at some point but right now it works so well I hate to mess with it...Bill..

[Leo Van Der Loo]

It seems that some people are never happy and others are grateful for information that they have never seen before. I for one have never seen any other post anywhere that shows the drill bit the way I have started using it. So Leo if it has been around so long how come no one is marketing something like it? You are very biased towards the "ONEWAY" world and that is great but let the rest of us poor guys have our fun the way we want. Being frugal is one of my favorite things and I for one am glad I was able to share it with everyone who wants to give it a try!

Thanks Bob and Roy, Steve and the others who always have a positve spin to put on things, I really hate negativity!


Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I think you take this all wrong Jeff, as I said it is good to bring these things in focus for all of us that haven't seen these tools before, and yes I seen this use of the drill bit before, and also the use of the router bit in the same manner.
Why it hasn't been marketed ??, I wouldn't know, but than again who's marketing the Oland tool, probably for the same reason, as there's not much of a Dollar to be made on it, broken drill bits aren't expensive and grinding can be done by most wood turners I would think.
Yes, Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Here is a part from Russ's corner (Woodcentral), where he mentions the use of an 2 fluted endmill as a hollowing tool, just to show that turners have used these tools before, and this is not a negative post either, just info :D

[Jeff Nicol]

Leo, I guess the way you started the reply "I don't mean to kick sand in your face" is really doing exactly that. At times when you respond to things of this nature, it seems that you have this sort of "One Up" tone to it and it caught me a little off, as it has other times. This relates to the Oneway comment, as we know how adamant you are about the Oneway products and all others fail in comparison. But anyway personal preference is all of our options.

I have been talking about using the drill bit this way for almost a year and this is the first time anything has been said by anyone. The post about the end mill is related, but not the same, the standard grind on them do not do the same as the way I have described regrinding the twist drill. The oland tool is pretty much what every tool that has a hole in the end to accept different bits, so it is marketed by just about every tool company out there in one form or another. The grind I use is the key to the success of it's cutting. Have you watched the Youtube video of me using it on the endgrain almost dry black walnut? I think that is what gets others to see what I am talking about. Check it out if you want, here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyN-RZOPB4M&feature=related

I just like to offer everything I know to others and hope to get a smile or thanks with out any strings attached. There is no competition just information to be shared. The way you started the reply, like I said is what irked me, it is like when your wife or girlfriend asks you "Do these jeans make my butt look fat?" and you reply "No not really" you said "NO" but you really meant "YES".

So it was my bad day and I am over it as you are too, so it is a new day and I am up and ready to get to the shop and do something today as yesterday was a bust!

Ruffled feathers no more,

Jeff :o

[Jim Underwood]

I'm glad someone finally commented on this Jeff. Otherwise I might not have seen it... What a great idea. I've spent money on HSS tool bits from MSC, but never even thought of a drill bit and I have tons of extras...

I'm being lazy this morning so I'll ask if you can post a link to your most significant thread on the subject. :D

[George Guadiane]

It seems that some people are never happy and others are grateful for information that they have never seen before. I for one have never seen any other post anywhere that shows the drill bit the way I have started using it. So Leo if it has been around so long how come no one is marketing something like it? You are very biased towards the "ONEWAY" world and that is great but let the rest of us poor guys have our fun the way we want. Being frugal is one of my favorite things and I for one am glad I was able to share it with everyone who wants to give it a try!

Thanks Bob and Roy, Steve and the others who always have a positve spin to put on things, I really hate negativity!


Jeff
Jeff,
I thought I did a lot of reading and research, with an idea that I came up with... After doing what I thought was sufficient to verify my authorship of an idea, I started taking credit for it.
Matt Clarke (past?) president of the Kaatskill Wodturners and Don Orr (whom I just had a great dinner with), both fine gentlemen and personal friends BOTH had the unmitigated gall :rolleyes: (and unfortunate task) of telling me that the "OATS" Off Axis Triangle Stave segmenting that I INVENTED had already been done...:mad: One included articles and the other a book title showing where Englishmen had already done similar things more than a decade before I came up with the idea, and YEARS before I started turning...

I'm going to say, I NEVER saw any of this before I was laying claim to (and for my mind, having actually come up with) coming up with this idea... In the end, it doesn't matter if I "REALLY" invented it (first) or not, I came up with it and my interpretations of it, on my own, and am proud of my active brain.
Don, whom I see more often was called "JERK" under my breath and in his face (with a slightly p*ssed off, slightly annoyed grin, mostly amused - at myself) for a whole month.

I said all that to say this:
Please allow for the possibility that you did come up with it on your own, and as fantastic an idea as it is (I WILL be using it) that you MIGHT not be the only one to come up with it... AND, if you were not to be the ONLY one to have come up with it, MAYBE you were not the first one.
Since you're not seeking a patent and/or trying to market the idea, other than (some of the) bragging rights, you don't really lose anything.
I'm REALLY glad that I saw this thread, yours is an EXCELLENT idea!

I didn't get the impression that Leo was trying to hurt you, and I didn't get the impression that he intended to be negative, only informative - but I don't know your relationship with him (if any).

[George Guadiane]

I think I will let Jeff give you a good angle. Mine is too steep I think but as I said I was just playing. I think something like 50* might work well. I'm going to re grind at some point but right now it works so well I hate to mess with it...Bill..
I'm glad to see that Leo and Jeff managed to resolve their issues while I was busy creating the ultimate "butt in." :D
Jeff,
I watched both of the videos on this tool, VERY impressive.
I imagine I'll have a couple of these in my quiver, VERY COOL:cool:
I don't know if you or anyone else has said this out loud, but this GREAT tool looks like it could get the same kind of cutting results as the Andre Martel's (and other) hook tool.

[Mike Lipke]

I did not take Leo's comments as being negative.

[Norm Zax]

I agree that the tool seems more than promising and I will definitely try grinding a few bits I have lying around. Jeff has shown us some extreme close-ups back in November if I recall correctly, as well as Bill's recent pics and testament. Even more info on the various grinding would always be welcomed from those with proven success but trial and error in this case doesnt seem to be a wrong coarse of action.
As to invention, I can only say I am probably going to own the idea of bowl turning. Yes, you read correctly!! I recently contacted a rep of a resin producer very well known to most people casting pen blanks. When telling him\her it was not for pens but bowls, the reply was, and I quote: I have never heard of bowl turning. Amazing. Look forward to learning more about this application.
Let's see anyone top that!
yours smugly,
Norm

[George Guadiane]

I agree that the tool seems more than promising and I will definitely try grinding a few bits I have lying around. Jeff has shown us some extreme close-ups back in November if I recall correctly, as well as Bill's recent pics and testament. Even more info on the various grinding would always be welcomed from those with proven success but trial and error in this case doesnt seem to be a wrong coarse of action.
As to invention, I can only say I am probably going to own the idea of bowl turning. Yes, you read correctly!! I recently contacted a rep of a resin producer very well known to most people casting pen blanks. When telling him\her it was not for pens but bowls, the reply was, and I quote: I have never heard of bowl turning. Amazing. Look forward to learning more about this application.
Let's see anyone top that!
yours smugly,
Norm
:cool:Contrary to popular belief;), I invented the telephone... You could not have, so quickly or easily, communicated YOUR remarkable discovery without mine!
Topped?
Oh, and I also invented wire and discovered electricity.:eek:

[Bruce McElhaney]

Jeff, I'm glad your re-evaluated your comments. Because your, "I really hate negativity" statement sounds curiously negative to me. Maybe, "I prefer positivity" would be more appropriate ;-) That said, I do like your cutter idea, even if not totally original, and will probably order one from you in the near future.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

I'm glad someone finally commented on this Jeff. Otherwise I might not have seen it... What a great idea. I've spent money on HSS tool bits from MSC, but never even thought of a drill bit and I have tons of extras...

I'm being lazy this morning so I'll ask if you can post a link to your most significant thread on the subject. :D
Jim,

The only post I could find on it because I also want to try it out was this one:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=970709#poststop

If there is another one then I would like to see it as well.

Joshua

[Ryan Baker]

It doesn't matter to me whether or not Jeff was the first to think of this idea -- it's still a good idea and a good thing to share (or re-share as the case may be) with the forum. Thanks, Jeff, for posting it. It was the first time I had seen it done -- and I immediately thought it was so obvious that I had one of those 'why didn't I think of that' moments. Shortly thereafter, I had the idea of experimenting with some similar bits, mill cutters, rotozip cutters, etc., that with some grinding may work well too. While I had not seen that specifically done, it seems it has been done before as well (like most good ideas).

I have a dish in my shop with a number of bits of different sorts waiting for me to do some experimenting when I get around to it. With the right grind, they all could make great tools, like the numerous other hook-type tools created over the years. Hook tools are a lot of fun to use if you've never tried them.

[Jeff Nicol]

Well, It seems that all of us are in line for some sort of extravagant prize for some of our great thoughts! If ony getting something patented did not cost an arm and a leg I could have been somebody!! I was asked today if I patented my steady rest design but the answer is the same, maybe I can apply for some of that stimulus money!!! But I digress, the angle that I grind the point at is about 85-90%, Bernie got some new pics of one I just ground. I am going to figure out a jig to do it but so far it rates at the bottom of things to do. The side grind is just following the flute and back cutting it so you can ride the bevel or keep it out of the way. The thing I like about it most is that you can cut on a push, pull or drilling cut and it likes them all. when I get about 12" deep it takes a little more finesse but is still doable,just finer cuts.


Cheaper is better!! And free is the best!

Jeff :eek::confused::rolleyes::D

[Craig Powers]

Cool product Jeff. Sometimes genius is in simplicity.
Nothing like finding an inexpensive, effective solution
in the sea of expensive "necessities" of the vortex.

[Bruce McElhaney]

Glad everything is resolved.

[Jeff Nicol]

There are so many wonderful and talented people on this forum and we all have ideas and skills that are different to one another. Having good discussions and minor dissagreements are a good thing! Personalities will always collide and rub the fur the wrong way, but just like in a marriage finding a solution and common ground will be the best outcome.

I sound like some sort of "Shrink" and I like to babble! This is one of the reasons we all like to post on SMC. We are like a bunch of brothers and sisters who don't have a disfunctionall relationship!

Keep on dreaming and going for the brass ring and someday we all could attain glory!

Jeff ;)

[Dan Forman]

It occurred to me that no one has ever patented on "the idea", so I applied for one this morning. Please don't worry, I don't intend to quash innovation - far from it. Please have as many ideas as you want. It's just that now, I get a little piece of the action from all of them. I'm hoping that soon I can afford a lot more tools. :D

Dan

[Bill Bolen]

Dan, guess you better send me you PayPal info cause I'm gonna make another one...Bill..

[Dan Forman]

William---The patent clerk wasn't sure if this would cover all ideas retroactively, or just new ones going forward. If the latter, technically I wouldn't be eligible for any reimbursement for you making another of Jeff's bits. Modification of said bits would be a gray area which I will need to look into. I'll let you know when I know.

Dan

[Jim Underwood]

Man. This is just an awesome idea. A pre-made flute to carry away the chips... I've just gotta try this out in my Oland tool.