Saw Stop Question

[Larry Feltner]

If everything works out well, I might have the opportunity in the next couple of months to buy a new table saw. I really like the design of the new Unisaw and I also like what I have seen of the new Saw Stop Professional. My question is about the Saw Stop blade brake technology. Is there any drawbacks to it. What I am talking about is things like cutting wet wood, such as treated wood, can it be used with a stacked dado, etc. I've heard all of the arguments back and forth as to whether the technology is worth it or not and I really don't care to revisit those arguments. I'll make up my own mind as to whether I think its worth it or not. What I am trying to research is whether the technology limits what you can do in any way, or complicates using the saw in any way. In other words, can you go on operating like you always have in the past, and use the same blades and attachments you have always used in the past? Thanks in advance for any information.

[Dan Friedrichs]

The SS has a bypass mode which allows you to disable the safety feature when cutting wet wood (or wood that you think may contain metal), etc.

There have been limited reports of brakes tripping from the following scenario:
-User turns on bypass mode and cuts wet wood or metal
-User turns off bypass mode and cuts dry wood
-Brake trips because a small fragment of metal/wet wood forms a conductive path between the blade and brake cartidge.

This is rare, though, and SawStop advises that a piece of plastic tape can be placed over the brake cartidge "business end" to prevent this problem if you regularly cut such material. Again, though, this problem is rare.

There are very few instances of the brake tripping without explanation.

AFAIK, there have been no instances where the brake has failed to fire upon contact with a finger.

Other than those brake-related considerations, the only difference you may notice from any other saw is that you must have the brake installed and properly positioned, even if you want to use bypass mode.

(Disclaimer - I don't own one, I'm just in the same boat as you - looking to buy one soon and doing lots of research...)

[Jeff Bratt]

In addition to Dan's comments:

There are brake cartridges for 10" blades and an 8" dado stack - no other sizes can be used without (unauthorized) modification of the cartridge. The protection circuitry allows you to test a piece of wood by touching it to the stopped blade to see if it is too wet or conductive to cut without using "bypass mode". And by wet wood, they mean dripping wet. Your blades cannot use a plastic or non-conductive arbor bushing. The only other limitation I can think of is that none of your fixtures, fences, or sleds can have any metal parts that could contact the blade.

Also an SS researcher, and technology geek...

[Dan Friedrichs]

Good point about there only being two brake sizes, Jeff. This also means you can't use molding cutterheads like you can with a regular TS. 10" blade or 8" dado - that's it.

[Bob Wingard]

You certainly can use molding cutterheads .. just enable the bypass mode and use a dado brake cartridge.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

The manual says it will NOT run with a molding head. The cartridge must sense a blade with the limits. In the event you have a 8 inch molding head and the cutter is at the right spot when you turn on the saw, it MAY run. Chances are good that it won't see the blade.

If you're wondering about wet wet wood, you can bypass, run a test cut, and check the circuitry. It will tell you if there was enough conductance to trip the brake. They say it has to be really really wet wood. If you leave it in your shop a couple days, it should not be a problem.

[Barry Vabeach]

Larry, as others have said, the blade brake must be within a certain distance of the teeth to work properly and there is an adjustment to the cartridge holder to accomplish that. In theory, if you have 2 10 inch blades that are different in actual height, you might have to adjust the cartridge when changing blades. I have a WWII that has been sharpened twice, but I can change to a new blade that came with the saw and is definitely bigger, and I can swap them out without resetting the cartridge distance, so I don't know how different they must be in size to present a problem. Other than as mentioned above, there isn't a technology issue that I am aware of. I am a very pleased SS owner, and think you will love it if you get it.

[Mike Holmes83]

Confirming Jeff Bratt's comment, I saw the diagnostic test demonstrated yesterday. Touched a piece of dry wood to the stopped blade and good to go; touched a finger to the stopped blade (analagous to a conductive piece of wet wood) and the red led flashed. In essence, the diagnostic procedure can serve as a sort of "moisture meter" in terms of dryness relative to triggering the blade brake. Advice was to always check your wood if you have a concern about it being wet enough to trigger the brake.

BTW, I am planning to buy a 3hp PCS SS as soon as I get rewired for 220V. I'm convinced based on both safety and saw quality.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

Is there any drawbacks to it. What I am talking about is things like cutting wet wood, such as treated wood, can it be used with a stacked dado, etc.

Do you really want to be cutting wet wood on any table saw anyhow - regardless of SS or not?

I did it once - and never again.
The binding is/was horrific & started just as the wood past the halfway point of the blade.

[Karl Brogger]

Framing material is usually pretty wet even if it isn't green treat. While I don't rip up alot of it, the need does pop up now and again.

[Paul Ryan]

Lately I wish I would have keept the tiny rockwell table saw I had to do those dumb things on a table saw. Like cutting wet green treated. When I built the play area for my boy I checked the green treated and sure enough the red light flashed so I would had to use the bypass mode. I didn't need to rip anything for the play area any way but if I ever needed to I woudn't want that crap inside my SS any how. So I wish I had that little tiny saw. In the past while siding my house I used that rockwell to cut soffit and facial with the blade in backwards and a face shield on. So I guess what I am trying to say is the SS is great for what it was designed for WOODWORKING. If you use a table saw for construction purposes you will need a back up.

Oher than being able to use smaller blades I have not found any draw backs to my SS. I think you could run 8" blades with dado cartridge in but why would you. On occasion I used to installed 2 7 1/4" blades in my old saws to make slots smaller than 1/4" but I cant do that with this saw. But I have been able to use 2 thin kerf 10" blades for the same purpose. But 10" blades run alot more $$ than the cheap 7 1/4.

Of all the blades I have used I have never had to readjust my brake cartrigid. I am sure the time will come. That was a concern of mine that I would always have to adjust the gap, but that is not an issue. I think you will like the saw.

[Philip Rodriquez]

I have the ICS model (the bigger one)... so I am not sure what all of the differences are.

As stated:

The saw has two power switches.
The little one turns on the computer. It must be powered before you can turn on the saw. If the computer is on, you can touch anything to the blade and the system (little light on the power switch) will blink if the material is conductive.
The big switch turns makes the blade spin. It will not turn on the saw if the system detects a problem (something conductive, brake not installed, etc).

Cut wet wood - You have to be kidding me. On a $4,200 saw! Okay, you can do it... just not on my saw :p
The brake is active while the blade is spinning - even once you turn off the the big power switch.
The new blade guard looks cool! It may have saved me the cash I paid for my Excalibur (though I love it).
Get the mobile base. It costs all kinds of cha-ching... but it is the best mobile base I've ever used.
Women dig the saw. All of the soccer-moms will be all over you!
It will not improve your WW'ing skills - but it will make you cooler (see #6)
Watch out for metal jigs. A replacement break is something like $80 and blades will need to be repaired or replaced.
The price is the same price everywhere that sells SawStop. Period.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

+1 on the mobile base. It costs as much as a cheap table top saw, but it's hydraulic, and the saw sits back down on the ground, not half on wheels half on ground. Plus, that base is WAY cool. Haven't had any soccer moms rush me yet though :).

[Philip Rodriquez]

give it time ;)

[Larry Feltner]

Sounds like there are not many drawbacks at all to the blade break technology. I've got to do some more research and inspect the Unisaw and the Saw Stop Professional in person, but it definitely sounds like the blade break technology doesn't detract from the saw in any way.

[george wilson]

I have mentioned a few times that a friend of mine had several brakes fire off. And,no,you cannot use the Saw Stop for molding heads. Even in bypass mode,it only takes 10" blades,and the 8" dado. This is why I wouldn't buy one. I have too many small specialty blades,some of which I've ground out myself to cut .020" fret slots for guitars,etc..

[John Coloccia]

Just an observation:

There seems to be a pattern with SawStops. There are tons and tons of people that run them everyday with absolutely 0 problems, interspersed with the occasional person who seems to have constant problems.

George, what I ended up doing was dedicating my old delta to cutting fret slots. I put an add on Craigslist and gave away the wings and fence, and just kept the main part of the saw. Oddly enough, there was someone out there that had an old delta and was looking for the wings and fence to make a dedicated saw back into a regular table saw.

[Jason White]

I don't own a SawStop, but I've used a couple.

Just don't run any wet lumber (i.e. pressure treated, framing lumber that's been sitting out in the rain, etc.) or hit any nails or staples unless you're in "bypass mode." Otherwise, it's business as usual.

Jason


If everything works out well, I might have the opportunity in the next couple of months to buy a new table saw. I really like the design of the new Unisaw and I also like what I have seen of the new Saw Stop Professional. My question is about the Saw Stop blade brake technology. Is there any drawbacks to it. What I am talking about is things like cutting wet wood, such as treated wood, can it be used with a stacked dado, etc. I've heard all of the arguments back and forth as to whether the technology is worth it or not and I really don't care to revisit those arguments. I'll make up my own mind as to whether I think its worth it or not. What I am trying to research is whether the technology limits what you can do in any way, or complicates using the saw in any way. In other words, can you go on operating like you always have in the past, and use the same blades and attachments you have always used in the past? Thanks in advance for any information.

[John Coloccia]

Just an observation:

There seems to be a pattern with SawStops. There are tons and tons of people that run them everyday with absolutely 0 problems, interspersed with the occasional person who seems to have constant problems.

George, what I ended up doing was dedicating my old delta to cutting fret slots. I put an add on Craigslist and gave away the wings and fence, and just kept the main part of the saw. Oddly enough, there was someone out there that had an old delta and was looking for the wings and fence to make a dedicated saw back into a regular table saw.


I reread this and wanted to clarify. I'm not saying that your friend is doing something wrong nescessarily. For example, my local Woodcraft has a SS sitting in the back room that had the problem of tripping unexpectedly. It was tracked down to a bad wiring harness, but SS fixed it...no problem. I've found their customer service to be top notch on the couple of issues I had. It might just take a phone call to solve that.

[Mike Heidrick]

I don't own a SawStop, but I've used a couple.

Just don't run any wet lumber (i.e. pressure treated, framing lumber that's been sitting out in the rain, etc.) or hit any nails or staples unless you're in "bypass mode." Otherwise, it's business as usual.

Jason

I do own a sawstop (5hp industrial) and have cut wet wood and treated wood (2X and plywood), and have even hit staples and brads (embedded in plywood) with no brake firing. Called sawstop and inquired about it and they said it is sensative enough to tell the difference between a finger and a staple. The wet wood I always test before cutting. Every time I also test against my finger and it always flashes. I have my brakes properly set at the correct distance from my WWWIs. I have not installed teh tape. The way it is setup seems pretty good to me. Just my experience on my own saw so YMMV.