Can you judge a woodworker by their tools?

[Chris Tsutsui]

This question occured to me last night when I was working with some new toys I got. I came to realize how tool technology can really effect craftsmanship whether we'd like to admit it or not.

So that got me thinking... Have you ever bought a NEW tool that just outperforms an old hand me down tool in every way?

Sadly, I feel that the tools are becoming a higher percentage of the modern woodworker and skill is becoming less prominent... :(

[Mike Henderson]

Unless you're talking about power tools, I don't see a lot of difference between modern tools and antique tools. The modern tools may be made with better materials but functionally, they're the same. And they take a skilled person to handle them in order to produce quality results.

No difference today than for our ancestors.

Mike

[This isn't new, but power jointers, planers, and saws make life a lot easier for the woodworker but those have been around for over a century (more like a couple of centuries.)]

[Myk Rian]

Replacing my junk C-man TS with a new saw made it possible for me to create nicer projects, but, just because someone has a shop full of top quality tools, doesn't mean the skill to use them is there.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I'm talking power tools and machines.

One example that stood out for me was I have an old circular saw that when I cut with a straight edge, I still get less than stellar results.

But then I got a track saw (Festoy) and it was a joy making long straight cuts. (I connected two 55" tracks together for 8' rips)

[Stephen Musial]

Craftsmanship is craftsmanship.

Good and bad tools have been around for a long time and the old saying still rings true:

It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

[Greg Johnson]

I had the pleasure of working next door to Robert Ruck's shop when he lived in Washington state. He is an incredible luthier as well as an incredible person. At the time he was selling his guitars to musicians for $3500 to $4500 while the street value was anywhere from $10k to $20k. He felt it was his contribution to music and he also needed very little to live on. Here is a link of some of his work: http://www.classicguitar.com/c-06Ruck.html

His shop consisted of a 50 year old 8" Craftsman table saw, an ancient Delta band saw and a drum sander. He did have dust collection and a drill press too as I remember. The biggest thing that impressed me about him was not his tools. It was his hands and knowledge. When you watched him work, his hands effortlessly moved over the wood and every move counted and was very precise. I did some computer work for him and he offered to teach me how to build a guitar. I got started on it and could never finish it because I was too busy. My hands looked like 10 thumbs compared to him. I still have regrets that I didn't make the time to finish that guitar.

I guess my point here is that old time craftsmanship is more about ingenuity, creativity, repetition and I guess sharp tools help as well. I know, speaking for myself, I make up for my lack of skill by trying to buy better equipment. Craftsmanship is slowly becoming a lost art and being replaced by technology. Maybe this isn't a bad thing, but I know I sure appreciate seeing a skilled craftsman like Robert Ruck.

Greg

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I believe the craftsman will build a worthwhile, notable project inspite of the tools he might use.

It's the craftsman not the tools in my opnion.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Can you judge a woodworker by their tools?"

To put it simply... no.

"I came to realize how tool technology can really effect craftsmanship whether we'd like to admit it or not."

I would like to respectfully disagree with this. Work that is the result of "high tech" tools is not the same as "craftsmanship". Let me offer an example. There a number of companies offering very nicely "carved" pieces... table legs, corbels, etc. These are produced on very complex "high tech" carving machines. No, they would not hold up under a close inspection when looked at side by side with "equivalent" pieces made by a master carver. But they are "not bad". However, this is not "craftsmanship" unless you are talking about the mastery of CNC technology and machine engineering. As Ken and others have said, a "good craftsman" will produce top quality work with whatever tools are at their disposal. That's exactly what makes them "good craftsmen"....

[Wayne Watling]

At first I thought as David, that is a resounding NO. But then it came to me that thats not quite correct. The answer is different for woodworkers of different skill levels. For a beginner tool quality is much more important so if we are judging beginners then there is a case that the better the tools the better the woodworker. However the greater the experience level the less the tools matter. From what I have seen of Davids work he would have no problem creating masterpieces using anything you put in his hand. For me it helps a lot to have quality precise tools.

I'm not all that sure what that is telling us though, just buy the best tools you can afford.

Wayne

[Cody Colston]

I'm talking power tools and machines.

One example that stood out for me was I have an old circular saw that when I cut with a straight edge, I still get less than stellar results.

But then I got a track saw (Festoy) and it was a joy making long straight cuts. (I connected two 55" tracks together for 8' rips)

Somehow I knew that this post was an ad spot for Festool.

Here's my opinion, "it ain't the arrows, it's the Indian."

[Peter Quinn]

Not sure I follow your logic. Maybe I'm at a different place mentally. I think modern high tech tools give wood workers options. You can cut a piece of wood with a track saw, or you can cut a piece of wood with a hand saw. Either will let you cut your work 1" too short and out of square if you choose. DAMHIK. You still have to design a piece, read the grain, choose your cuts, join things, make adjustments, finish the wood. A new track saw will certainly outperform a crappy old skill saw, but so will a hand saw with a bit of practice. The track saw will most certainly do some things quicker, but it will not build furniture for you. For that, you will still need to exercise craftsmanship.

So I would agree that for many, myself included, modern tools have replace hand work and the skill set that comes with them, but a whole shop full of shiny European toys is not a substitute for the body of knowledge that is craftsmanship. After all the tools may have changed but the medium and the materials remain the same.

[David DeCristoforo]

I have to agree with everything Wayne and Peter said. All I am saying is that... well let me put it in the form of an "anecdote". I did a lot of work for a guy who envisioned himself as a "maker". He was a lawyer of "substantial means" and, over the years, he assembled a shop that would put mine to shame. Everything in it was "the best" and in pristine condition. Looking at his shop one might easily conclude that this was the shop of, if not a "master", at least a very competent woodworker. But, in truth, the guy was... well, I just have to be blunt... the guy was inept. It didn't really matter because he rarely actually worked in this fabulous shop anyway. But with all of that "high end" equipment, and all of his top quality hand tools (he had everything), the guy was incapable of producing a piece of quality woodwork. I'm not trying to "dis" the guy, just to illustrate the point that tools do not make a craftsman.

[Bill Huber]

Short answer NO.....

The new tools may get a craftsman there quicker, a table saw of a hand saw but the work that is done is no better with the table saw, just done faster.

I had an old Craftsman table saw, an 8", 1954 model that I used for about 2 years and now I have a new Jet table saw. My work is no better then it was with the old Craftsman, just easier.

Now I am in no way saying that I am a real craftsman because I am not.

[Craig McCormick]

I have visited two shops of people who's work I have admired. One is a wood turner who has sold his pieces for as high as $15,000. He works on a home built lathe with home made wobbly face plates and a Harbor Freight bench grinder for sharpening. No fancy four jaw chucks, no fancy sharpening jigs and a lathe that is very obviously home built.

The other guy restores vintage travel trailers for as high as $300,000 and his shop is full of old lower end tools.

Two extremely talented woodworkers!

BTW all my stuff looks the same weather I use a contractors saw or a European slider. I do miss that slider...

MY .02

Craig

[Steve Rozmiarek]

You know, my recent Felder addition did not make me any better, but it did prove to be a bit of a muse. Productivity is up, which pretty much sums up my thoughts on the question. Better tools can increase capacity, but not skill.

[george wilson]

My first "table saw" was a very old 8" TILTING TABLE Walker Turner. A tiny little saw. This was in 1960.The saw was probably from the 30's. I had no money,and it was all I could afford. I made very nice guitars with it from the standpoint of accurate saw work.

[Brian Penning]

"So that got me thinking... Have you ever bought a NEW tool that just outperforms an old hand me down tool in every way?

Sadly, I feel that the tools are becoming a higher percentage of the modern woodworker and skill is becoming less prominent... :("



One tool that fits this is the DowelMax.

[Zach England]

Modern power tools have made woodworking more accessible and lowered the barriers to entry. I do not have the skill necessary to cut dovetails by hand, but I can produce dovetails with my router and dovetail jig.

[Dave Lehnert]

I had an uncle who could build anything better than anyone. All he had was a handsaw and a folding rule. He would make spindles shaving them with a piece of glass.

Also worked with a guy (our maintenance dept) He is a master building things. He thinks Harbor Freight is good and Craftsman is GOD.
All the prof I need that it is the craftsman NOT THE TOOLS.

[george wilson]

There are still some remarkable craftsmen out there. Possibly a higher percentage than you might think,due to better educational opportunities in the trade,better exposure to other masters,better exposure to masterpieces in museums,etc..

What makes today's woodworker different is that most paying jobs are for stuff made of sheet goods. No fine carving,paneling,etc required.

Try googling the Olympia theater in Italy. They have the original renaissance stage setting on the stage.I can tell you,from being there,it is a remarkable display of woodworking skill. Carved wooden statues everywhere made to look like bronze or stone. A whole city street carved in perspective,but only 10' deep at the most.

There were obviously tons of fine craftsmen back then,competing for these jobs,and working for well informed,very choosy clients.

Today,VERY few clients know squat about taste or craftsmanship. The worker doesn't have to live up to higher classical learning from his clients. I am 1,and I know of only a few others who serve clients who know and demand the very best.

Today,it takes an especially art and design oriented,and self motivated craftsman-to-be to even get into this degree of work.

[Leigh Betsch]

In the past I made my living as a Toolmaker (molds and dies). We had a saying in the shop we used on the apprentices "Tools don't make the Toolmaker". Meaning an apprentice needs a lot more than a full toolbox.
Having said that no journeyman toolmaker worth his salt would put up with crap tools because it affected the quality of work he could do. And poor quality as a Toolmaker will get you canned right quick.
Woodworking is a bit different, many people do great work with simple tools weather they are Neanderthal tools or modern power tools. But I doubt any Woodworker worth his salt puts up with tools in a poor condition. Tools must be sharp, accurate and in tune. Crap tools that cant hold an edge, wobble, don't cut straight all effect the craftsmanship. Even a buggered up screwdriver will result in a buggered up screw. So I would say that "Tools don't make the Woodworker" but "Crap tools don't make a Craftsman either".

[Chip Lindley]

As with David DeCristoforo's anecdote: A superior craftsman in tune with average (even sub-par) tools will produce higher quality work than a very average (even sub-par) woodworker with a fabulous gleeming arsenal of commercial-quality power tools!! Perhaps, just not as fast....

It is an expensive no-brainer that a new track saw can cut a straight line! But I achieved the same years ago using a HOmade jig with an accurate aluminum straight edge screwed to a piece of 1/4" hardboard. LOW Tech! but it's worked for me for many years. (perhaps the OP's old *SkilSaw* has a base not parallel to the blade?)

An individual's thirst for knowledge, and time invested to improve his technique and quality of work goes far to produce quality! Further than a shop full expensive tools in the hands of the smug who assume "cutting-edge" tools will make him an accomplished artisan.

Another anecdote:
The parents were very concerned that their son was not a very accomplished violinist after several lessons. They assumed that their son was a prodigy, and that the very expensive new instrument they had bought him was at fault. They took the violin back to the shop where they had bought it! They pled their case of shoddy workmanship to the elderly proprietor! The gentleman took the fiddle in hand. He plucked it; tuned it a bit by ear and cradled it between shoulder and chin. A clear crisp melody resonated from the son's pristine new instrument as the man played. He handed the fiddle back to the chagrined parents and told them to go home and have the boy practice twice as much! Because he had much technique to learn!

[Frank Drew]

Before we get too lost in celebrating doing everything with nothing more sophisticated than a rock and a pocket knife, good tools make the work go more smoothly, IMO. I'm a good craftsman and I loved moving from a Powermatic to a sliding table saw. I didn't become a better worker, but it became easier to do the work.

[Don Alexander]

you can definitely tell alot about a woodworker by looking at his tools , not because the tools are old , new or in between, BUT because of the
way the tools are maintained and cared for. While i have seen alot of great craftsmanship on old or even rather inexpensive tools , i have never once seen craftsmanship coming from someone who fails to properly maintain and take care of whatever tools he/she may have. A true craftsman will take as good care of the tools he/she has to use as is possible because that is the way a craftsman is. Think about it......

you have 3 woodworkers to choose from .. first one has a fair number of tools but they are all tossed in the open bed of a pickup truck, rusted, dented, bent and generally a disaster second one has a bunch of brand new tools that have no use at all on them and the third one has
obviously well used tools that have obviously been well cared for
based on just looking at the tools which woodworker are you going to hire?
don't know about you guys but i am definitely hiring the 3rd guy

[Jacob Mac]

As a beginner, wwing is hard enough. The last thing I need is another variable like a poorly performing tool to further frustrate me. However, the little improvement I have seen in my work has come from making mistakes and learning from them, not buying new tools.

At this point, the only tool I am really looking to add is a nice dust collector. Other than that, I really want to get to workshops with teachers like Rob Cosman and Darrel Peart. I think experience, and really engaging your mind when you are doing something, is vital to growing as a craftsman. But I don't need to make this any harder on myself than I have to.

[Greg Cole]

There are more than a few WW'ers who can and do judge by paint color or country of origin of tools. There is less and less about the CRAFT of woodworking now and will be less and less into the future in general.
There are more threads here (or an equal number of) about what tool should I buy as opposed to topics relating to actually doing and or making something.
You are free to pass judgement on a person for a material posession, I'll choose not to.

[John Thompson]

You can purchase the most expensive set of high-tech golf clubs and you won't beat Tiger Woods given a J. C. Penney set of starter clubs with only a 3-5-7-9-wood and putter. Not until you learn to master the swing and putt.

New high-tech tools aren't going to make you a craftsman until you learn the fundamentals.. gain experience and develop the touch.

[Brian Ashton]

This question occured to me last night when I was working with some new toys I got. I came to realize how tool technology can really effect craftsmanship whether we'd like to admit it or not.

So that got me thinking... Have you ever bought a NEW tool that just outperforms an old hand me down tool in every way?

Sadly, I feel that the tools are becoming a higher percentage of the modern woodworker and skill is becoming less prominent... :(

Personally I don't believe that tool technology has effected craftsmanship all that appreciatively. I guess if you take some time to look at what was produced 250 years ago (hundred years on either side of that...) compared to what's produced today you'd have to conclude that skills have waned even though the quality of tools has increased exponentially. Most if not all new tools will out preform older tools, there's no arguing that, but ultimately it has less to do with the tools being used and more to do with the individual using what they have at their disposal. Again look at what was being made 250 years ago compared to today that premise is easily supported. When I talk about what was available I mean to include everything that could influence a craftsman at that particular time in history... Lighting (ever tried to work with only a 20 watt bulb for lighting? or oil lamp?), eye glasses (which is incredibly important, anyone over 40 will understand that point!), tools (no tool steel or gray iron in 1760...), shop conditions, over all health (today's 60 is yester-years 40 year olds...) and it goes on...

If I look back on my professional career (about 27 years getting paid for it and about 31 years overall) as an all round wood worker (wood turning, carving, boat building, furniture making, cabinet making) I'd say that the best craftsmen were those that had the least "structured" training, in fact the best were all self taught. I think the most important factor is passion. If you have genuine passion for something you'll find a way to over come pretty much anything that stands in your way. These days I think most are into woodwork because it's one of the various trends that eb and flow in different societies through out the ages, not because they're genuinely passionate about it. Which is not a bad thing... It's just one of the multitude of ways in which societies entertain themselves...

[Chip Lindley]

And I have a nice Case XX in my pocket at all times. Great for cutting open those UPS boxes of eBay bargain stuff! Also great for splinter removal, or a myriad of other utilitarian cutting functions.

Let's get back to the OP's problem: cutting a straight line with his *electric circular saw.* I have never had that problem. My straight-edge and clamps and SkilSaw do a decent job, but are far more inconvenient and time-consuming than a shiny new track saw. My accuracy is right on! So is the track saw's. My quality of cut is ok on one side, and so is the track saw's. IF lots of sheetgoods will be cut each and every day, even the track saw will become very inconvenient to use.

Up a notch would be a good TS with sliding table. Add a Modulus scoring attachment and you have quite a setup! It is much larger and much more expensive than even the pricy track saw. The upside is that both sides of the stock have a very clean edge! But, if you must de-mount the Modulus every time stock is ripped, the setup becomes quite inconvenient!

Funds and space permitting, you buy a dedicated slider! With built-in scoring blade, it gives almost perfect results. Even 2 or 3 sheets can be loaded and cut at the same time. The TS is only for ripping solid stock now.

Even with a nice big slider, each separate piece must be handled and cut exactly to dimension. Still quite time-consuming if you have a contract to provide built-ins for a whole hospital!

So, we reach the pinnacle of sheet-goods-cutters! The CNC router!! Whole sheets are cut into many intricate pieces is a matter of minutes. Exact digital precision, and pristine cuts with diamond tooling! BUT, at quite a huge investment! WayyCool! But, I can't justify one! Can you?

This odessy to cut a straight line has taken us FAR from real woodworking! Melamine/MDF has no soul! Plywood does only if it has sliced veneer!

Bottom Line is: How much utility does an expensive new tool afford you? Or is that of any consideration at all? Some guys just have beaucoups Pride Of Ownership!

[John Callahan]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon5.gif Can you judge a woodworker by their tools?

.......... no but you can by their work. Far less so now but I've always been a bit of tool junkie. Twenty plus years ago I went to work for a friend of mine. We had to replace some fascia and soffit on an 1800's era parsonage, two stories up. I was going to bring up the extension cord, miter saw, and other electrically powered implements of destruction. He pulls out his old well used and cared for Disston D23, a few cuts, a few licks with the block plane, and we were done. It opened my eyes. imho skills make the woodworker, not the tools ........................ which means I've got a ways to go yet. :)

[David DeCristoforo]

"...good tools make the work go more smoothly..."

...but only if you know how to use them! There is no doubt that a fine tool is a joy to use, regardless of one's level of skill. It "feels good" in the hand and there is a definite sense of satisfaction to be had from using it. However, this does not translate into better craftsmanship. A woodworker of little skill can get just as much satisfaction out of owning and using something like a fine table saw or an expensive hand plane as a "master".

"...no but you can by their work..."

Amen to that!

[Wayne Watling]

The question was: "Can you judge a woodworker by their tools?"
I take it that the questioner is asking whether you can judge the quality of a woodworkers works (final product) from their tools.

I hesitate to reduce this argument to mere mathematics but I'm sure if we had any mathamaticians on the forum they might come up with the formula.

If you gather 100 x 30 year woodworking venerans and 100 woodworkers with 6 months experience in a room and distrubute evenly high quality and low end tools so both groups have a mixture, you would see a pattern emerge with regard to the products produced.

Among the veterans you would find that the measure of final product quality in relation to tool quality is far less predictable than that with the beginners. I tend to feel the better quality the tool given to a beginner woodworker the more predictable the outcome i.e. the beginners provided with the better quality tools would produce better quality products. You will always get exceptions to the rule of course.
As was said before, the more skill you get the less the tools matter. There does not seem to be a Yes/No answer to this question.

Wayne

[Bill White]

I have sold $6,000 Viking ranges to people who don't cook at home. Just wanted something that really looked good in the kitchen. Oh well......:p
Bill

[Mike Cruz]

While better tools can make a woodworker better, the real measure of a woodworker is their end product.

[Rod Sheridan]

I asked the question of my FIL, who retired recently from a 49 year career as a cabinetmaker, with a trade certificate.

His indenture was signed by the cabinetmaker, and my FIL's mother, as at 16 years of age he was a minor and could not undertake legal obligations on his own.

He worked at Shapland and Petters, Barnstaple, Devon, England for several decades before moving to Canada and continuing his career.

A lifetime spent producing work of high quality using machinery and hand tools.

Of course spending his apprenticeship in England, he has a large collection of English planes, chisels etc, and many Sorby one off's produced according to a sketch sent to the local supplier.

I presume those days are gone.

When I asked about a craftsman and his tools, John replied that of course you can tell a lot about a craftsman by his tools, suitable for the work involved, maintained in excellent working adjustment, and stored and handled properly.

Always the correct tool for the job, just as the correct wood and joint type for each purpose.

He also indicated that since you were expected to work for your lifetime, you bought high quality tools during your apprenticeship, as required by your master.

(Note, a Cabinetmaker was normally expected to have hand tools only, if you worked for a firm, they supplied the machinery).

You also went to school half days, taking mathematics, art, drawing, sketching, design, some metal and glass working, and English composition.

At the end of your apprenticeship, you were now a journeyman, and could go out into the working world, or work and continue your training to obtain a master's certificate.

John indicated that although an experienced worker could probably make a masterpiece using a spoon and pocketknife as the only tools, as a professional you were judged partly on your tool collection, as the correct tool does the job best, in the shortest length of time.

Then as now, time was all important, the object was to obtain the maximum amount of money, for the work performed in the most efficient manner.

I guess that explains the hard time he gave me when I was cutting rebates on the table saw using a dado cutter.

Or when I was drawing all sorts of lines before cutting dovetails. "Are you making drawers or trying to imitate a draftsman?" was the question. "Nobody pays for pencil lines, stop that and get sawing".

I guess looking at it from a hobby perspective, the important aspect is to have fun.

I enjoy using good tools and machinery, and have gone that route. I find that when using quality tools, I want to make quality work.

Irrational perhaps, however it's what I've decided for myself.

Regards, Rod

[Greg Magone]

I wondered the same question: Is woodworking simply buying the fanciest and most expensive tool? And if so, is that bad?

My answer is no on both accounts.

For the second question, woodworking has always been about having the right tools. For example, has anyone cut down a tree and tunred it into furniture without tools? Good luck with that one!

For the first question, I have made beautiful furniture in shops that consist of a Craftsman table saw, Craftsman router and router table (1/4 collet), and some Delta tools that are small. But they worked great and are beautiful.

Checked out the table saw used in Woodsmith. No Biseyemer fence and a model that is years old. I bought the identical saw for $25 off eBay a few years back.

[Mike Cruz]

I already gave my REAL answer to the question, but I have to add that according to a lot of forum members you CAN judge a woodworker by his tools, just ask them...I SUCK! :D

[Bill Orbine]

I think a fairer way to judge or RATE a craftman is by the techniques and skills he uses to make a beautiful piece. The tools (as well as time and money) are just means to procure and it helps expedite the process.

For example, I know a cabinetmaker with considerable skills to hand cut a lovely dovetail drawer with handsaws, chisels and handplanes. Wow! Awe! That's awesome craftmanship. Or, rarely, he could dig out the dovetail template and router and make his drawers. This same person will often outsource the drawer work to a specialize shop with dovetail machines. Just pick up the phone and punch in 7 numbers.

Considering the above, the one dovetail drawer I'm interested in is the drawer he made at his bench with his hands using the small hand tools..... the others I could care less. This is something to consider when you see a craftman's pieces..... how do you RATE the craftman.

[Mike Sandman]

Sadly, I feel that the tools are becoming a higher percentage of the modern woodworker and skill is becoming less prominent... :(

Well... I got a C in 7th grade workworking, and even that was a gift. We only had hand tools and the teacher provided zero instruction. So I never learned how to use clasisc hand tools well. But with good power tools - a quality fence on my table saw; a good miter saw, planer etc. I can make just about anything I want short of hand carved moldings.

So the tools make up for my lack of skill, much like a computer & printer make up for my lousy handwriting. It's the thought behind what's written that counts

Similarly, its the imagination that goes into the finished piece and the pleasure of using it that comes out that are important, no matter whether some of the credit goes to the machinery.

[David Keller NC]

Many have stated emphatically "NO" to the question posed by the original poster.

However, I would say that this is not nearly so simple. One poster quoted "It's not the arrows, it's the Indian". This is an excellent statement to examine more closely. I've been to professional archery competitions, and I can guarantee you that the arrow plays a part in who wins to a point.

Yes, it will make little difference whether the shaft of the arrow is made of special, 150 year old spruce or 2nd or 3rd growth harvested last year.

But I can guarantee that absolutely none of the professionals at these events will put up with arrows with warped shafts, period exclamation mark. Could they make a warped shaft on an arrow get closer to the target than a beginner with the same arrow? Absolutely, but that is beside the point.

Here's a similar example that's a bit closer to home. I've taught a fair number of folks how to hand-cut dovetails, and been around a number of craftsmen that are masters at this. Many of the beginner's saws are unsuitable for the task - they are saw-shaped objects, but that's as far as it goes. Again, can I cut a better line than the beginners with these saw-shaped objects? Absolutely, and I can even get together a set of tails and pins that look reasonably OK from a distance. But that does not change the fact the saws are not suitable for the work - their set is way too wide to allow the saw to track in the kerf, the teeth are filed cross-cut so that they follow the grain, and the handles will wear a blister on your hand in short order.

Some of the masters at this have very nice antiques - Disstons, Bucks, etc... from earlier than the 1920's or so. Some had more modern, not so nice saws, but every one of them had custom-shaped the totes from the factory monstrosity to something approaching the old Disstons or British saws, and every one of them had re-filed the geometry of the teeth, as well as removed the vast majority of the set.

So their tools, in one sense, were not "fancy". But that's misleading. Once they'd finished with them, they were every bit as fancy from a performance standpoint as the most costly Andrew Lunn backsaw, and would've been every bit as expensive to produce if their work had been done by a professional maker.

[Bob Elliott]

When I was in high school I ran cross-country and track. We had a guy on our team that was just about dead last in every race we ran, but he loved running and stuck with it all four years. He was accepted by our team and most members really respected his passion for the sport but also recognized that he would never be a contender on the track.

His love of running also including buying just about everything Nike made for running. He had warm-up suits, shorts, windbreakers, hats, gloves, socks, and plenty of shoes. I don' know where he or his parents got the money for all that stuff, but he spent a small fortune on it.

We had a local 5k race our whole team ran every year Thanksgiving Day. It wasn't an official race so runners of all ages and abilities came and ran. The guy I am describing would line up toward the middle of the pack and warm-up in the cold. When the start approached he would start stripping off all this expensive Nike clothes. The others who didn't know him thought he must be Joe Runner and invite him to move forward toward the starting line because they figured he would pass them anyway. Later they found out that they were fooled by his clothing.

There is no substitute for talent and ability. Anyone can buy tools; an excellent woodworker with talent will now how to use them. I know I am an average woodworker and I have bought tools that made up for my lack of ability in certain areas. Granted, some tools are bought to increase speed (most of us use powered saws and not hand saws). The woodworkers I most admire are those who made things out of wood in the days when there were no power tools or electricity for that matter. I have seen things in museums that are awe-inspiring, especially with the knowledge that they were made without the aid of electricity or power tools.

[Steve Jenkins]

I have a story similar to David De's. The difference is that over the years I have had several woodworkers comment on how if they had my shop they could make really nice things too. I allowed a group of them to use the shop for a few days and weekends to make some projects. For the most part they had no interest in learning anything I might have had to contribute and the end result of their efforts was pretty poor craftsmanship. I've always maintained that for the most part better tools and machines means faster production not better results.

[Donald Hofmann]

This question occured to me last night when I was working with some new toys I got. I came to realize how tool technology can really effect craftsmanship whether we'd like to admit it or not.

So that got me thinking... Have you ever bought a NEW tool that just outperforms an old hand me down tool in every way?

Sadly, I feel that the tools are becoming a higher percentage of the modern woodworker and skill is becoming less prominent... :(

Replacing a Skil jig saw with a Bosch made a huge difference. Now when I cut around a curve the blade stays perpendicular to the wood.

[Brent Leonard]

I personally do think that modern innovation can make certain things easier for some. My PC dovetail jig comes to mind. Although I can and have done (and do) hand cut dovetails, the jig and router is much easier and requires considerably less skill and practice. IMO, hand cut dovetails require lots of practice. The practice builds skill, and the skill becomes craftsmanship. The jig/router cut out the practice (or reduce it considerably). Someone unwilling or unable to ever achieve GOOD hand cut dt's, can achieve clean DT's with a jig/router.

Some will argue that the look of machine cut DT's does not spell craftsmanship, but I think, for alot of non-woodworkers, it does.

I still think craftsmanship is something that cannot be replaced by a tool, but, a certain level of craftsmanship can be achieved by an individual with limited talent that they would otherwisde not be able to achieve without the special tool. So for me, the answer falls somewhere in the middle. Not an absolute yes or no......

[David DeCristoforo]

"Some will argue that the look of machine cut DT's does not spell craftsmanship, but I think, for alot of non-woodworkers, it does."

That's just "lowering the bar". Eventually it will end up on the ground. Understanding how to use a jig or a machine is not the same as being a "good craftsman". We have to be willing to put our abilities and work up against "the best". Otherwise, we end up with nothing. Would you compare the musicianship of a concert violinist playing Bach with some guy generating the same notes on a computer? One is mastering an art. The other is mastering a machine. No way it's the same. The guy who uses a dovetail jig may get satisfaction out of doing it but it's not anywhere close to being in the same league as someone like Frank Klaus who could hand cut dovetails at close to the same speed using his skill with a simple saw and a chisel. No way you can say the guy using the jig is as good a craftsman simply because he gets joints that fit out of his router jig.

Let's face it. Time and monetary constraints are always a factor and if a project's budget only allows the use of machine cut joinery, we are going to use machine cut joinery. But let's at least have to "cojones" to face up to the fact that we are working on a whole different level than a "master craftsman". OK, before you go jumping down my throat, let me say that I understand that a guy with limited skill can make dovetails with a router and jig and he might not be able to otherwise. But the truth is that anyone with a modicum of mechanical ability could read the manual and get the same jig set up and cut the same joints. It's not "craftsmanship". And saying that a "good quality" power saw cuts better than a crappy one is not a good argument for anything other than the "pound foolishness" of buying poor quality tools.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I'm talking power tools and machines

Then it's not the craftsmanship that is improved, it is merely the result from relying on poor or superior equipment.

I too find that I can do more finely differentiated work with superior equipment but, I am no better at my trade or craft.
I just have better stuff.
So the better stuff helps me to appear to have improved when in reality all I'm doing is manifesting my dependence on the machinery made by some one else.

But this is a hobby and not a competition so, I'm OK with that.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I stated earlier I truly believe it's the craftsman and not the tools...but......

When I was younger I was a musician of sorts. I wanted a Gibson bass guitar and a specific amplifier so bad I could taste it. The Ampeg fliptop amplifier cost several hundreds of dollars in the early '60s. So, I bought the cheapest bass guitar and amp I could afford. I gave it up when I got my draft notice in '68. I was at the time a mediocre bass player.

The LOML had heard me whine for 25 years that someday I wanted a good bass guitar. Well....she handed me the checkbook one day and said "Get it". I bought an excellent bass guitar and a mediocre amplifier. I play better today than I did as a teen playing in rock bands. I'm in it for the music and not the volume today.

The tool can have an effect on the craftsmanship but....it's still the craftsman....... A true craftsman can take a poor quality tool and find a way to compensate for it's limitations.

I am buying the best quality tools for my shop that my budget will allow. I plan on retiring in the near future. I can only afford to buy once... I can't afford to take a chance on a poor quality major tool failing on me. It's a hobby not a source of income. I want to buy once and blame my mediocre skills for the lack of quality.

Some great bass players can take a broom stick, some cord and a wash tub and lay down some damn fine licks!

[Brent Leonard]

"Some will argue that the look of machine cut DT's does not spell craftsmanship, but I think, for alot of non-woodworkers, it does."

That's just "lowering the bar". Eventually it will end up on the ground. Understanding how to use a jig or a machine is not the same as being a "good craftsman". We have to be willing to put our abilities and work up against "the best". Otherwise, we end up with nothing. Would you compare the musicianship of a concert violinist playing Bach with some guy generating the same notes on a computer? One is mastering an art. The other is mastering a machine. No way it's the same. The guy who uses a dovetail jig may get satisfaction out of doing it but it's not anywhere close to being in the same league as someone like Frank Klaus who could hand cut dovetails at close to the same speed using his skill with a simple saw and a chisel. No way you can say the guy using the jig is as good a craftsman simply because he gets joints that fit out of his router jig.

Let's face it. Time and monetary constraints are always a factor and if a project's budget only allows the use of machine cut joinery, we are going to use machine cut joinery. But let's at least have to "cojones" to face up to the fact that we are working on a whole different level than a "master craftsman". OK, before you go jumping down my throat, let me say that I understand that a guy with limited skill can make dovetails with a router and jig and he might not be able to otherwise. But the truth is that anyone with a modicum of mechanical ability could read the manual and get the same jig set up and cut the same joints. It's not "craftsmanship". And saying that a "good quality" power saw cuts better than a crappy one is not a good argument for anything other than the "pound foolishness" of buying poor quality tools.


The original post and question was whether modern tools AFFECT craftsmanship. Craftsmanship is not ONLY the results of a master as you suggest. There are varying levels of craftsmanship. Ceratinly I would never argue that machine cut DT's rival the craftsmanship of a master's handcut DT's, BUT machine cut DT's are an example of a higher level of craftsmanship than a box, screwed or nailed together.

So, modern tools, DO AFFECT craftsmanship. Plenty of people cannot cut handcut DT's and the alternatives may be screws/nails or machine cut DT's.

You argue "craftsmanship" is black and white, positive or negative. You either have it or you don't. I, as I stated, believe it is not so, but varying levels between the extremes of "either you have it or you don't" and that modern tools DO AFFECT craftsmanship. Can a tool replace craftsmanship? Of course not, but it does AFFECT it.