32 mm construction

[Jim Barrett]

I am interested in building cabinets and using the 32mm method. I have been reading quite a bit of information on line concerning this method and have been thinking about using this methodology on some of my future cabinet projects. My kitchen needs a remodel and I have 2 walk in closets that I will need to finish off as well. I would like to use Melamine for the cabinet boxes with hardwood for the doors. There is a plethora of in line boring machines for mucho $$ that can be purchased but I am thinking about using the Festool drilling jig to accomplish the boring process. I also have read about the Blum Mini press that will do in-line drilling along with boring for door hinges as well. Has anyone created 32 mm cabinets or closet configurations?
Thanks,
Jim

[Mike Mortenson]

I just built my first cabinets with these type hinges. All i used was my drill press with a home made fence. theres nothing to it and I see no reason to waste money on jigs. I did buy a bit which came with a plastic jig to help make sure the hole location is right.

[Jim Becker]

I just built my first cabinets with these type hinges. All i used was my drill press with a home made fence. theres nothing to it and I see no reason to waste money on jigs. I did buy a bit which came with a plastic jig to help make sure the hole location is right.
Mike, there is more to the "32mm method" than Euro hinges...it's a complete system/design for how the cabinets go together and is popular with volume cabinet makers. I'm not overly familiar with the details, unfortunately, and a Google.com search was not productive in the time I had to look.

[Clint deal]

hey Jim, I can't tell you exackly what is involved in the 32mm system but can tell you what I use. I do a combination off systems. I use faceframes with euro hinges, the plastic adjustable legs for ease of installation, adjustable shelves etc.
By using the legs I get more out of a sheet of plywood. I use cabinet grade plywood instead of MDF. I don't like the weight and dust of MDF.
I use dovetailed hardwood drawer boxes.
By using the legs I don't have to build a platform to set the cabinets on abd the removable toekick allows you under the cabinets to run water or elec. in the future if the need arises.
I use a homemade jig and drill press with screw on hinges not press in.
I use a homemade jig and battery drill to drill for shelf pins, which is slow.
I started out using one of the books called Building traditional Kitchen Cabinets and another one I've since misplaced and can't remember the names or authors
Hope this gives you at least another option. At least it might tell you what not to do. lol
Ya'll stay dry and safe today
Clint

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi folks,

I'm in the process of building two simple melamine shop cabinets using the 32 mm system. As I already own a Festool router I seriously considered the hole drilling package. But for my needs as a hobby woodworker I couldn't justify the costs.
As for the details of cabinet making using the 32 mm method you might like to check out this website (http://32mm.dalrun.com/).
When I planned the cabinet, I wasn't interested in getting into the deep philosophy of this system, I simply wanted to use a couple of things for the cabinets: shelf pins and Blum hinges.
For this job I basically needed two things:
An accurate method to drill the shelf pin holes and a 35 mm dia drill bit for the hinges. Fortunately, my dad already bought a good 35 mm bit years ago. I definitely recommend to buy a HW type for drilling melamine. In order to drill those holes you should use a drill press with a fence.
You will usually find some information about how to install the Euro hinges at the place where you buy them. Lee Valley offers a good description (http://www.leevalley.com/shopping/Instructions.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=45303) which also shows where the front row of shelf pin holes should be located.
As far as I know, it's not important where you place the back row. I chose a distance of 60 mm.
It's not difficult to build a simple jig for the shelf pins. Here (http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive99/4_23holejig.html) is a nice interesting example. I modified it and used it successfully. All you need is a good 5 mm HW drill bit for the router (I used a Festool) and a copying ring.

I attached some pics which show the stuff I used.
Feel free to ask if you have any additional questions.

Hope this helps,

Christian

Pic 1: Hole drilling jig with temporary fence, a better one will be made in future.
Pic 2: "Drill press" setup.
Pic 3: Shelf pin holes.
Pic 4: The way I routed the rabbet for the back of the cabinet.
I'll post more pics when the cabinet is finished.

[Roger Kirkpatrick]

Hi Jim,
I have been building cabinets for seve3ral years now and do mostly face framed. I have done a few commercial jobs that are frameless.
I am just now setting up my e-cabinets software with 32mm constructed seed cabinets and will start offering them only.
Blum has a 26 page publication on 32mm construction call Process 32.
It has all the dimensions needed for full 32mm construction for base cabinets, wall cabinets, vanities and desks.
I found this document through a post on http://www.WoodWeb.com.
The construction details are very easy, crown and scribes are a little different.

[Mark Singer]

I have done variations on the 32 mm cabinet. I like using the Kreg jig for the carcase if it is hidden, keeping the pocket screws toward the outside. The cup hinges can be drilled using the Rockler or other drill jig. Shelf holes can be drilled with the Rockler jig. The hinges allow for a lot of adjustment. The mounting plates allow for variations of overlayed doors. A rabbet allows the back to be let in and gun nailed. These cabinets are vary fast to make once you have done a few.

[Jerry Golick]

Hi there,

I've been building euro-32 style cabinets for about 6 months now using an all festool system (ATF55/OF1000/MFT1080/LR-32). The only non-Festool items I've used has been a cordless drill (couldn't afford the festool one), some bar clamps and Jet cabinet corner clamps which I feel are reasonably priced and indispensible for this sort of work. Plus an iron, trimmer and roller for the edgebanding of course.

While it is possible to make jigs to drill the system holes, I found the LR-32 hole drilling components fast, accurate, and easy to use. It also has quite a number of other uses such as cutting accurate dados using the router.

My first project was a set of simple melamine cabinets for my workshop.

All the joinery was done using confirmat screws which I found were far superior to standard particle board screws. I would have preferred using biscuits, but I don't own a plate joiner (yet). The hinges were attached using euro-screws. Since I was using the euro system everything lined up well.

Overall I spent about 30 hours building the cabinets, but I think I could do it in about half the time now (it was my first attempt at any sort of woodworking).

Oh yes, two other items which were really important. 1) Was a program called CutList Plus which helped me optimize the cutting patterns for the sheets and 2) Danny Proulx's "Building Frameless Kitchen Cabinets" which gave me all the basics I needed.

It was lots of fun, and I am looking forward to my next project which will be making built-ins for a couple of large closets in the house.

I've attached a file of my cabinets. Hopefully I'll figure out how to insert photos right into the post soon.

Take care.

[Frank Pellow]

Hi there,

...

My first project was a set of simple melamine cabinets for my workshop.

...

Overall I spent about 30 hours building the cabinets, but I think I could do it in about half the time now (it was my first attempt at any sort of woodworking).

...

It was lots of fun, and I am looking forward to my next project which will be making built-ins for a couple of large closets in the house.


Jerry, I see that this is your first posting on Saw Mill Creek. Welcome!

Also welcome to the hobby of woodworking and the "Festool at SMC" owners "club".

I have never built this type of cabinet but am interested in doing so, so your post was quite informative. Nice job on the cabinets!

[Jim Barrett]

Hey Jerry,

Thanks for the info and Welcome to the Creek! Thanks to EVERYONE who has responded! Your cabs look great, I have Danny's book as well and have learned quite a bit from it. Cutlist Plus is a great program, I have used it for several projects.

Take care,
Jim

[Jerry Golick]

Hi guys and thanks for the welcome.

I realize that many north american cabinet makers still shun frameless cab construction but I found the system well thought out and fairly simple to follow once you get the hang of it.

Early on I decided to do everything in metric, rather than trying to convert imperial to metric. This proved to be a little frustrating since most of the components available in north america, drawer slides for example, are based on imperial measurements (i.e. 12" uppers and 24" lowers, etc). One of the nice things about euro-32, is if you keep everything in multiples of 32 all the parts come together very well.

The GSCS (see I'm learning the lingo! :) was, imo, the perfect set of tools for this sort of project. I was amazed how quickly I was able to get 90 degree cuts and repeatable lengths. For hinges, I used the Salice deluxe snap ons (I got my from Cabinetmart in Ontario). Easy to install, but more importantly they allow you to true up the door in three dimensions without having to remove it.

The drawers were fairly easy to put together, although I found I really had to get the measurements spot on for the width and height. My first attempt was a little wide and the door wouldn't slide. Planning the drawer height was the real challenge. Danny gives some good recommendations in the book, but if you want drawers of different depth you have to get a bit creative. FWIW - I also found it alot easier to attach the sliders before assembling the cabinets.

BTW - I didn't follow Danny's suggestion of placing a rail (16mmx100mm) between the drawers. I understood his reasoning, but I couldn't find any easy way to attach them without drilling more holes through the cabinet sides. I'm still trying to figure that one out. In the meantime, they work fine and I see no real reason to have them other than perhaps the look of the thing.

For design, I put together a small excel spreadsheet. You input the overall dimensions of the cabinets and it gives you the required dimensions for the various panels. Its crude, but it saved me a great deal of time.

Finally, and a bit off topic, I am really enjoying working with melamine. It may not be "real" wood, but it has, imo, quite a number of benefits over the more traditional materials. Plus, the Festool special laminate floor blade does a very good job preventing chip out, so I get nice clean cuts almost all the time.

My only realy problem has been trimming the edgebanding. I have tried a number of different trimmers with mixed results. The problem is that the trimmer seems to chip the laminate on the particle board as it trims the banding. The best tool I have found so far is a standard utility blade, but I wish I could get something better. Still searching on that one.

[Brian Jarnell]

I wonder about all this face frame stuff.
What thickness edgebanding do you use,the 3mm or the thin stuff?

[Steve Rowe]

Jim - In addition to some of the other suggestions here, I would like to recommend the book "Building Frameless Kitchen Cabinets" by Danny Proulx. In addition to an overall discussion of the process and format of the 32mm system, it discusses various methods to accomplish those processes. Prior to Danny's passing, he operated his own cabinet shop and was an editor for CabinetMaker magazine so he does know what he presents.
Hope this helps - Steve

I guess I really should look at the dates before I post. Brian - I use the thin stuff with a Freud tabletop edgebander. I have had no problems with any of this coming loose. Several of my fixtures have been in a retail store environment for the past 7 years with no signs of delamination.
Steve

[Brian Jarnell]

Steve,
The reason I asked what thickness you use,is that here all kitchen makers use 3m on doors and external parts that are likely to be knocked.
Where the kitchen maker doesn't have the kit to fit this,he gets it done by those that have the fancy and expensive edgebanders,it is quite economic.
Mind you I live in Christchurch,where there are dozens of kitchen makers,so no problem finding someone to apply same.
Here is pic of the trimmer I use for the thin stuff,it is very good and is made by Virtuex.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/brian1520/trimmer.jpg

[Brian Jarnell]

Hi guys and thanks for the welcome.

I realize that many north american cabinet makers still shun frameless cab construction but I found the system well thought out and fairly simple to follow once you get the hang of it.

Early on I decided to do everything in metric, rather than trying to convert imperial to metric. This proved to be a little frustrating since most of the components available in north america, drawer slides for example, are based on imperial measurements (i.e. 12" uppers and 24" lowers, etc). One of the nice things about euro-32, is if you keep everything in multiples of 32 all the parts come together very well.

The GSCS (see I'm learning the lingo! :) was, imo, the perfect set of tools for this sort of project. I was amazed how quickly I was able to get 90 degree cuts and repeatable lengths. For hinges, I used the Salice deluxe snap ons (I got my from Cabinetmart in Ontario). Easy to install, but more importantly they allow you to true up the door in three dimensions without having to remove it.

The drawers were fairly easy to put together, although I found I really had to get the measurements spot on for the width and height. My first attempt was a little wide and the door wouldn't slide. Planning the drawer height was the real challenge. Danny gives some good recommendations in the book, but if you want drawers of different depth you have to get a bit creative. FWIW - I also found it alot easier to attach the sliders before assembling the cabinets.

BTW - I didn't follow Danny's suggestion of placing a rail (16mmx100mm) between the drawers. I understood his reasoning, but I couldn't find any easy way to attach them without drilling more holes through the cabinet sides. I'm still trying to figure that one out. In the meantime, they work fine and I see no real reason to have them other than perhaps the look of the thing.

For design, I put together a small excel spreadsheet. You input the overall dimensions of the cabinets and it gives you the required dimensions for the various panels. Its crude, but it saved me a great deal of time.

Finally, and a bit off topic, I am really enjoying working with melamine. It may not be "real" wood, but it has, imo, quite a number of benefits over the more traditional materials. Plus, the Festool special laminate floor blade does a very good job preventing chip out, so I get nice clean cuts almost all the time.

My only realy problem has been trimming the edgebanding. I have tried a number of different trimmers with mixed results. The problem is that the trimmer seems to chip the laminate on the particle board as it trims the banding. The best tool I have found so far is a standard utility blade, but I wish I could get something better. Still searching on that one.
Should have used this b4 posting a bad pic,sorry.http://www.virutex.com/catalog/i3.html

Re trimming.

[Steve Rowe]

Brian - You are correct, the thick stuff is really nice but you have to have the really nice (& expensive) edgebanders to apply it. I have used two types of trimmers; one like you pictured except mine is a Freud brand and another by the name of BandIt. When using with wood edgebanding, these trimmers have a tendency to follow the grain and tear out. Of the two, I prefer the Freud - it just seems to work a little better. I have been tempted to build a horizontal router table and use a flush trim bit to trim this but just haven't gotten one of those round tu-its. :D :D
Steve

[Mark Singer]

Here is a nice edge bander...I am thinking of getting , but not sure it works on 110 single phase...:rolleyes:

http://www.rtmachine.com/includes/get_big.php?ID=1506

[Brian Jarnell]

Mark a friend of mine has just bought one of those.
You just tick the thickness of the edgebanding on the computer,all the settings take place,up to 30mm,load it with the appropriate material and stand back.
You are so lucky to have one.:cool:

[Brian Jarnell]

Brian - You are correct, the thick stuff is really nice but you have to have the really nice (& expensive) edgebanders to apply it. I have used two types of trimmers; one like you pictured except mine is a Freud brand and another by the name of BandIt. When using with wood edgebanding, these trimmers have a tendency to follow the grain and tear out. Of the two, I prefer the Freud - it just seems to work a little better. I have been tempted to build a horizontal router table and use a flush trim bit to trim this but just haven't gotten one of those round tu-its. :D :D
Steve
Steve,have you seen these?
http://www.virutex.com/catalog/c9_p1.html

Sorry if I am stating the obvious.

[don romans]

BTW - I didn't follow Danny's suggestion of placing a rail (16mmx100mm) between the drawers. I understood his reasoning, but I couldn't find any easy way to attach them without drilling more holes through the cabinet sides. I'm still trying to figure that one out. In the meantime, they work fine and I see no real reason to have them other than perhaps the look of the thing.
I'm remodeling our kitchen using DP's method's, with variations of my own. I attach all the rails to the stiles with pocket screws (NO holes in side of cabinet), same with the carcass to face frame connection, very strong & fast. I use full side panels (raised panel or solid) with no scribe trim (DP's method). I was very leery of using melamine, however, my wife LOVES IT (ALL THAT MATERS)!

[Frank Pellow]

Lee Valley also has a good 32mm cabinet jig and an excellant pamphlet on the subject. Those interested can go to: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=42200&cat=1,180,42311
then print the free booklet referenced there.

[Steve Rowe]

Brian - I was not aware of this model. Looks interesting. I had previously considered a Hoffman lipping planer that would do the same thing but much more costly.

Mark - Funny guy:D :D I had someone try to sell me an Ott edgebander but didn't look near as nice as the one you picture, it was so large it wouldn't even fit in my shop. I am sure 110V single phase would work however, in my small town, 1000 amp single pole breakers for home distribution panels are no where to be found.

Steve

[Mark Singer]

I will try to explain the 32 mm system in my post "Balboa House cabinets"...I have posted some construction technoques before....it seems difficult to find a source that explains it...ops the dinner guests just arrived....later:rolleyes: