Hand plane for Raw Lumber?

[Dan Hilgart]

Hi all,

I just picked up a couple raw boards for my next project with lengths from 6-8 feet and widths from 4-8 inches. Now, I hope I don't offend anyone, but the reason I'm looking at hand planes is because I don't have the funds or space for a power planer, not for the nostalgic value. That said, this will likely be my only hand plane for some time and likely won't see much use other than prepping raw lumber.

I don't need anything that will leave a mirror finish, as I will still be sanding once I am done planing. I just want something that will leave me with a pretty flat board.

I've read that if you're only going to have one plane, a jack plane is it. Well, do you think that is true in my case? Or would a fore or jointer plane be better for me since I am going to be working on bigger lumber?

Also, what about buying new vs. used? There are a lot of old planes available on ebay for about 2/3 the price of new. What kind of work do you think they would take to clean up enough to be usable? I've never sharpened anything before in my life, so I'm a bit wary of this option. How hard is it really? I should be able to use a new plane right out of the box, right?

Thanks for your help,
Dan

[David Gendron]

As for the size of the plane, I like a #6 a lot. As for new vs used, it depend, you said that you never sharpened anything before... It does take a little practice to get good at it and you also need to know what a sharp edge look and feel like! Unfortunatly, the new planes, even the LN or LV, they need a little work on the edge like final honning.
An other option, is to ask other creekers if they would part with one of there already sharpened plane... Send me a PM, I might have something!
David

[Sean Hughto]

I was just visiting my father in law, and he wanted my help making a sort of plaque to mount a brass clock on. We went to the local hardwood outlet and secured a piece of rough sawn 5/4 walnut about 7" wide and 8' long (8' minimum length requirement). The only plane he had was a Stanley 5 (SW era) that I had cleaned-up and given to him some years ago as a gift. I had added a LN Stanley replacement blade. I had also given him a set of Norton water stones (220, 4000, 8000). I sharpened the blade using the stones and fairly quickly used the jack to clean the board up (faces and joint the edges) - flatten the faces (indeed, it didn't even need sanding the plane surface was fine) and also to add some chamfers to the edges of the plaque. The jack did it all very well. The jack probably cost $35 on eBay, and the blade another $40 or something.

A jack doesn't joint the edges of long boards quite as easily as a 7, and may not smooth a figured board quite as well as a smoother, but it does a reasonable job of both, and excels at the clean up jobs.

You didn't mention what species of wood your stack is? Some woods are easier to plane than others, of course.

As for sharpening, despite what some might suggest, it ain't rocket science. While a LN plane out of the box might work "okay" on some types of wood, even the LN would benefit greatly from some refinement and honing. Out of the box planes from other makers at lower price points are likely to be even less ready to go (i.e., will expect the customer to sharpen the plane before use).

[Eric Brown]

Dan heres a few suggestion and some thoughts.
First, the normal #5 jack has a 2" wide blade. The 5 1/2, 6, & 7 all have 2 3/8" blades. Any of these planes will work. The difference is that the 2" blade is easier to push than the 2 3/8" but takes longer. The longer a plane is the easier it is to get the board flat. All of these plane can produce a surface so smooth that sanding is not required.

However, none of the above matters if you have a dull blade. Even new planes, while somewhat sharp from the factory, can be much better with a little honing. You also need a flat strong bench at the right height. A little wax on the sole helps too. Oh, be sure to not cut against the grain or tearout may occur.

If money matters, used is a good way to go if you have the aptitude to rebuild it. Regardless, you still have to sharpen it.

Eric

[David Christopher]

Dan, you dont have your location listed but since you only have a couple of boards you might also find a creeker that will machine plane for you

[Sean Hughto]

Careful, pre-1939 5 1/2's had 2 1/4" wide blades. I know from experience that this can matter when securing a replacement blade. ;-)

[Dan Hilgart]

Thanks for the quick replies all! Sounds like either a 5, 6, or 7 would work. I didn't realize that blades did not come pre-sharpened. If I were to use an un-sharpened new blade, would I be able to still get a flat surface that would just need a little additional sanding?


You didn't mention what species of wood your stack is? Some woods are easier to plane than others, of course.

The wood I've got is maple and red oak.


Dan, you dont have your location listed but since you only have a couple of boards you might also find a creeker that will machine plane for you

That's a good idea. I'm in Houston, which I've now updated in my profile.

[Matt Radtke]

Thanks for the quick replies all! Sounds like either a 5, 6, or 7 would work. I didn't realize that blades did not come pre-sharpened. If I were to use an un-sharpened new blade, would I be able to still get a flat surface that would just need a little additional sanding?


Well, depending on the blade, I could see a hand plane flat out not working if you don't hone it. Granted, I've never bought a new one.

The first one I put into service was an old no. 5. It was easy for me to tell that the blade needed more sharpening as I went, as a it took /way/ too much effort to push. I specifically did a little sharpening at a time to feel what the blade felt like at various levels of sharp.

(Also, feel free to PM me, I've got a 6 and 7 that I might be willing to part with for a beginner Neander. Just repeat after me: ONEOFUS. :D)

[Sean Hughto]

Maple and red oak are pretty hard (compared to say, poplar). Maple with tiger or birdseye grain is prone to tearout. In any event, you will definitely benefit from a sharp blade.

An unsharpened new blade from someone like LN, would probably just barely be adequate, depening upon how much planing you are doing. You'll have to sharpen it eventually anyway ....

[Dan Hilgart]

Good news! Found a solution to my sharpening issue: I can take it to Woodcraft here in Houston and they'll sharpen it for me for just a couple bucks. So I suppose I'm now in the market for a used #5, #6, or #7. Any more thoughts on what size would be best?

[James Scheffler]

Hi all,

Also, what about buying new vs. used? There are a lot of old planes available on ebay for about 2/3 the price of new. What kind of work do you think they would take to clean up enough to be usable? I've never sharpened anything before in my life, so I'm a bit wary of this option. How hard is it really? I should be able to use a new plane right out of the box, right?

Thanks for your help,
Dan

You may have gotten some of this information from the previous responses, but if you buy a new inexpensive plane, it probably won't be any less work than an antique one. It also may never work as well as an antique one. For example, the modern Stanley "contractor grade" planes are clearly inferior to the old ones.

Word-of-mouth and published reviews of some of the other cheaper modern planes (e.g. Anant, Groz, Kunz, etc.) suggests that they aren't good either.

I have a modern Stanley No. 3 Bailey equivalent (the model # is different now than it used to be). I never got it to really work right no matter how much tuning I did. I later got some various older ones (No. 4, No. 5, No. 9 1/2, and No. 31) and they all work pretty well after some tuning.

Due to the way the frog fits onto the base casting of my modern No. 3, I don't think it's possible to make it perform like the old ones. It chatters whenever it hits a knot or difficult grain.

Best of luck in your search....

Jim

[Sean Hughto]

Do you have a table saw? Do you have a marking gauge? Do you have a bench? Do you have winding sticks? A try square? All of these things are likely to be helpful, if not essential in four squaring this rough lumber. There is more to the process than simply pushing the plane across the boards, but I assume you know that, right?

If I were the girl in Rumplestiltskin, but instead of being put in a room with straw and spinning wheel, were put in a room with several maple and oak boards (and a bench, marking gauge, winding sticks, square, saw, etc.) and asked which length plane I would like to get the baords four square by morn, I'd like choose the 7 because it's longer sole will aid in the face flattening and edge jointing processes. Others might just as rationally choose the 5 or 6. The 5 will be the cheapest to obtain.

[James Scheffler]

Good news! Found a solution to my sharpening issue: I can take it to Woodcraft here in Houston and they'll sharpen it for me for just a couple bucks. So I suppose I'm now in the market for a used #5, #6, or #7. Any more thoughts on what size would be best?

A No. 6 might be the best compromise for your purposes if you're only buying one. The bonus is that they can be found fairly cheaply, as they're a bit less popular than the No. 5 or No. 7. The No. 6 has been dissed by Patrick Leach (a Stanley expert) and others as not being really useful. That may be true if you already have a No. 5 and 7, but if you can only have one, it would work well for you.

Sharpening isn't that hard to learn, or necessarily very expensive. Google "scary sharp" and you can learn to sharpen using wet/dry sandpaper stuck to plate glass (or granite tile). You just need several grit sizes, the surface to stick them to, some spray adhesive, and a honing guide. Honing guides can be expensive, but I fine the $10-ish side clamping one to be fine.

Jim

[scott spencer]

Dan - I'd definitely be leaning toward a 5-1/2 if you can find one....definitely my favorite plane, but I realize it's a personal choice. A regular #5 is easier to come by fairly cheaply (Bailey, Record, or Miller Falls #14 are pretty common). The 5-1/2 offers pretty much the same versatility as a #5, but that extra width and heft really comes in handy on the amount of surface you've got to cover. A #6 might be easier to find than a 5-1/2, plus they sometimes go for less money. The #6 has even more heft than the 5-1/2 but starts to give up some versatility.

Good luck!

[David Keller NC]

Hi all,

I just picked up a couple raw boards for my next project with lengths from 6-8 feet and widths from 4-8 inches. Now, I hope I don't offend anyone, but the reason I'm looking at hand planes is because I don't have the funds or space for a power planer, not for the nostalgic value. That said, this will likely be my only hand plane for some time and likely won't see much use other than prepping raw lumber.

I don't need anything that will leave a mirror finish, as I will still be sanding once I am done planing. I just want something that will leave me with a pretty flat board.

I've read that if you're only going to have one plane, a jack plane is it. Well, do you think that is true in my case? Or would a fore or jointer plane be better for me since I am going to be working on bigger lumber?

Also, what about buying new vs. used? There are a lot of old planes available on ebay for about 2/3 the price of new. What kind of work do you think they would take to clean up enough to be usable? I've never sharpened anything before in my life, so I'm a bit wary of this option. How hard is it really? I should be able to use a new plane right out of the box, right?

Thanks for your help,
Dan

Dan - I may be telling you something that you don't want to hear, but you may have a rough time of it using just one plane to get a rough-sawn board dressed and flat to the point of "just needing a little sanding".

Most of the rough boards I use in my shop are prepared by hand-planing, for exactly the reason you stated - not having a planer that will accomodate the width (in my case, I've a planer, but often the boards are wider than the 13" capacity). Generally speaking, I'd be working for days if I only had one plane that had an iron that was set to take a fairly light shaving and I was trying to remove the mill's band-saw marks and to remove any cup or twist.

What one generally does instead is to use a "roughing plane" to remove the coarse mill marks and to do the initial flattening, followed by a jointer plane to further flatten the board and to take out the scalloped surface left by the roughing plane. If the board's going to be a show surface, the jointer is followed by a smoothing plane set to take those see-through thin shavings that one typically sees pictured in threads on handplanes.

The roughing plane can be almost any medium to large length plane that has an open mouth (either set that way on a Stanley-style, or a wooden one with a "pre-worn" mouth :D), a highly curved (cambered) iron, and a sole from about 15" to as much as 22" long. These planes are variously called "fore planes" (used "before the others) or in some cases, scrub planes. A jack plane can be set up as a roughing plane, or it can be set up as a medium-fine plane, or even a smoother - it just depends on how finely the mouth is set and how curved the cutting edge of the blade is.

It is possible for you to get by with a jack-length plane (typically 14" long in Stanley parlance) and a couple of different blades - one highly curved, the other very slightly curved. You would set the mouth wide open for the curved blade, then re-set it for a finer mouth with the less-curved blade.

As to used vs. new, I would highly encourage you to read Jim Koepke's thread "Some things to look for" before you consider bidding on an e-bay Stanley.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

You want what's called a "fore" or roughing plane. Unfortunately Stanley never labelled any of its with this moniker, although you can find woodies labelled that way. I used, quite happily, a #5 with a slight camber ground into the iron for some time until I found my current favorite. A #6 is a bit bigger and heavier but does the job well too; I found I was more comfortable with mine in the short jointer role. If you're going to try to make one plane do the work of three, you want the #5 or the #5 1/2 and probably some replacement irons, as the iron that works best for rough planing is different from the iron that works best for jointing. Good luck.

[Joe Cunningham]

Learn to sharpen, it really isn't that hard. And you will need to do it quite often to get great results, otherwise you are just setting yourself up for frustration.

People who don't like hand planes don't know how sharp the blade needs to be. It doesn't need to be expensive--I started using 'scary sharp' which uses wet/dry sandpaper on float glass. Works well and is an inexpensive way to start.

[Charles McKinley]

How about a big wooden plane? A wooden Jack is 26-30" long can usually be found cheaper than a metal plane and as long as it is flat the huge mouth isn't a problem if just using it to get the board flat.

Just a suggestion. Welcome to the slippery slope.

[Sean Hughto]

"Generally speaking, I'd be working for days if I only had one plane that had an iron that was set to take a fairly light shaving and I was trying to remove the mill's band-saw marks and to remove any cup or twist."

I think this overstates the case a bit since even a single blade in a single plane -- using the depth, frog, and lateral adjustment mechanisms -- can take a variety of cuts ranging from rank to fine. A few days ago I used only my father-in-law's Stanley Bailey jack to take a 5/4 walnut board (7" wide by 8' long) from rough to ready. It did not take days, although it undoubtedly was not quite as fast or convenient as it would have been if I'd had a stable of planes at my disposal.

[Richard Niemiec]

Dan: Do yourself a big favor and educate yourself a bit about hand planes here:

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm

IMHO, one plane is not going to do it for you; traditionally, a scrub (or an extra convex blade in a jack can do in a pinch), a jack and fore or jointer (e.g., in the Stanley numbering system, a #40, #5 and #6 or #7, respectively); you can do without a smoother (#4) as you describe your needs. Also, when using edge tools, you absolutely must learn to sharpen. For a newbie, google "scary sharp" and use a cheap honing guide and sandpaper. Later you can go investigate stones.

Its a skill like any other, but if you can't sharpen a plane iron, you will find yourself in a world of chit and frustration as the plane won't work, and it won't matter if you spend $400 for a Lie Nielsen #5 or $40 for a type 18 Stanley #5. Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley Veritas come close to working perfectly out of the box, but even the irons on these premium planes need some honing, and eventually have to be sharpened.

Not trying to discourage you, just to open your eyes. Surfacing and sizing your stock by hand is a useful skill to have, even when one (as I do) has a power jointer and planer. Welcome to the slope.

RN

[David Gendron]

I agree with the 5 1/2 or the Fore plane that is the #6. I think you can do a lot of work with one plane, an iron that is cambered properly and sharp! You can go from rought to ready, meening a smooth surface ready for finish on "regular" wood meening: soft or nonfigured wood! As long as you keep your plane blade nice and sharp, polshed on both side of the cutting edge!
Good luck!

[lowell holmes]

Dan,
1. The Woodworkers Club of Houston has a handplane splinter group that can help you. The web site is www.wwch.org (http://www.wwch.org).

2. I'm in Galveston County. I could join the boards for you.

3. In the future, Houston Hardwoods will plane their rough lumber smooth two sides and one edge for 55 cents a board foot. That's in addition to the cost of the lumber.

[Mark Roderick]

With all due respect, you're really going down the wrong path here. For one thing, a single plane is not going to do it for you. For another thing, if you don't own any planes now then buying a used Stanley and trying to make it work correctly is a huge mistake - you're just putting yourself in for a world of frustration. For a third thing, as others have cautioned, there is a heck of a lot more to planing a board than owning a plane, even a new, sharp plane.

You should read Garrett Hack's "The Handplane Book." You should buy Rob Cosman's video "From Rough to Ready." You also might want to get a book on basic woodworking.

I'm only saying these things because if you just leap into this project with a used plane, you're likely to spend a bunch of frustrating hours and end up throwing the plane and the wood away and never doing woodworking again, which would be a shame.

To just get the few pieces of wood jointed and planed, just got to a local wood supplier, in fact the place you bought the boards in the first place. They''ll do a perfect job for just a few bucks and everyone will be happy.

[Prashun Patel]

Dan-
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this....
Going the handplane route is likely not going to save you much $$.
You'll need a couple planes AND you'll need to invest some time and $$ learning how to sharpen properly.

Investing in quality tools, you might find yrself north of $300 going neander. And that's probably conservative.

You're better off (IMHO) in getting a used lunchbox planer. You can probably get one off CL for under $200.

You can face joint on a planer using a sled and shims. You can edge joint using a router or tablesaw; so you don't truly need a jointer (although when you do get the funds, it does make life way easier...)

Now, if you really ENJOY using handtools and want the control, precision, and smoothness that quality handtools provide, then that's a reason to go neander. But that does not appear to be yr motivation...

[Sean Hughto]

Mark is right Dan, that finding a frined with a lunchbox planer or taking your stack to a harwood supplier or cabinet shop to run through their machines is likely to more cost effective overall.

BUT

If you want to try handplaning, I'm worried that we may be scaring you off. As you can tell, their are different perspectives on how many planes you need and how much you'll need to spend. I'll just summarize my perspective on these issues, for what it may be worth:

A single plane will do it - perhaps not totally optimally, but I just did it myself, so I'm not merely speculating. A 5, 6 or 7 would suffice, but the 5, being the most common and smallest, would be the least expensive. A decent old (pre-1940) Stanley 5 would cost you around $35 on eBay or elsewhere (as much as $50 for one in super clean shape, which you don't need, but might like). A replacement blade - which is not required, but would be helpful is another $45:

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=512

For sharpening, 10 sheet of various grits of sandpaper and granite tile (or similar) from the home improvement center (maybe $30 total?) and a honing guide like this at around $10-15.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=jig

That's it. The rest would be learning technique and process which is not all that hard for simple 4 squaring in well behaved (i.e., unfigured) woods.

[jerry nazard]

Dan,

You certainly have gotten good advice from several perspectives. If you are the type of person that is detail orientated; sets specific goals; enjoys the task at hand; and feels richly rewarded by achieving his goals, then the handplane route is for you. If, on the other hand, you are anxious to quickly complete the project and enjoy the finished product, then have the boards milled on a machine. You will have fun woodworking either way!

It would be a shame for this project to sour you on hand planes or woodworking in general.

-Jerry

[bridger berdel]

I didn't realize that blades did not come pre-sharpened. If I were to use an un-sharpened new blade, would I be able to still get a flat surface that would just need a little additional sanding?


look, you're going to have to sharpen to be able to use a plane. you may have to sharpen several times a day, depending on what you're doing. get used to it. sharpening is no big deal, despite what some of the geeks around here make it out to be- really it's just a maintenance procedure. the initial setup of an old stanley bailey or a new anant or similar might be a couple of hours. after that maintenance sharpenings will take 5 or 10 minutes. if you skimp on keeping your plane sharp it won't work for $h!t and will just frustrate you.

sharpening is part of the cost of entry of the use of hand tools. it's fun, easy and very worthwhile.

[David Barbee]

I think there is a misconception that using hand tools is the less expensive way to start woodworking. This has not been my experience. To take a rough board to a usable state takes a few different tools; at least one hand plane (3 recommended), sharpening tools, winding sticks, and a marking gauge.

You can buy new or old. I suggest a new plane or an old plane that has been tuned by someone with the know how. Every woodworker buys a hand plane and thinks he will clean it up and make it work. It's not that simple. There are a lot of subtleties to proper tuning and picking out a good candidate plane. If I could only have one plane I would want my bevel up joiner. Maybe a bevel up jack if I was going to be using a shooting board.

David B.

[bridger berdel]

Dan-
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this....
Going the handplane route is likely not going to save you much $$.
You'll need a couple planes AND you'll need to invest some time and $$ learning how to sharpen properly.



I have a dozen or so planes. I doubt I have $200 in them. now, a few were gifts, most were second hand at bottom feeder prices and two were bought new- a lee valley shoulder plane and a stanley block plane. still, with a little creative diligence you can set up with excellent planes for little money.




Investing in quality tools, you might find yrself north of $300 going neander. And that's probably conservative.

You're better off (IMHO) in getting a used lunchbox planer. You can probably get one off CL for under $200.



a lunchbox planer can be a good tool, but for things like taking twist out of a board a hand plane is a more direct solution, and for edge jointing forget it.




You can face joint on a planer using a sled and shims. You can edge joint using a router or tablesaw; so you don't truly need a jointer (although when you do get the funds, it does make life way easier...)

Now, if you really ENJOY using handtools and want the control, precision, and smoothness that quality handtools provide, then that's a reason to go neander. But that does not appear to be yr motivation...

[Prashun Patel]

I've been building an arsenal of planes myself for about a year. It can certainly be done on a budget, but you gotta be patient and lucky.

If he wants a quick solution, I stand by my rec that the easiest is to get a power planer.

Unless you've used hand planes before, which he may have, there's a pretty steep learning curve in terms of sharpening and blade setting. If you buy an LN plane, that will be shortened, but plane shoppers are a knowledgeable bunch and the good deals are taken quickly. Any of the remaining items can be workable, but take some experience to do right.

And sharpening? That's a WHOLE nother school. Working on a budget, I used scary sharp to sharpen my chisels and planes for a year. I only recently learned what sharp means. And I watching some videos of masters at work, I think I'm about 50% of the way there...

I suspect many plane newbies will have a similar experience to mine: On yr first few attempts, you end up exerting way too much pressure, constantly tweaking the blade depth, and getting a lot of tearout and gouges.

[Jim Koepke]

"a lunchbox planer can be a good tool, but for things like taking twist out of a board a hand plane is a more direct solution, and for edge jointing forget it."

Does an electric planer ever need the blades sharpened?

How does one do the set up of the blades?

I have never used one. Haven't even looked at the pictures of them much. I think once in high school we used a power joiner. I know those have blades that need to be sharpened and set.

Yes, a hand plane requires a lot of skills to use including being able to sharpen blades. It seems once one hand plane skill is learned, another challenge is introduced into your work to teach another.

jim

[David Keller NC]

Does an electric planer ever need the blades sharpened?

How does one do the set up of the blades?

I have never used one. Haven't even looked at the pictures of them much. I think once in high school we used a power joiner. I know those have blades that need to be sharpened and set.

Yes, a hand plane requires a lot of skills to use including being able to sharpen blades. It seems once one hand plane skill is learned, another challenge is introduced into your work to teach another.

jim

Indeed they do (need sharpening or replacing and setting). The newer, $600 or so lunchbox planers use disposable knives that seat on a pin, so setting isn't nearly the challenge that it used to be.

However, and has been pointed out, if you truly want to go the power route, you have to do one of three things to do the initial flattening of one face - either have a battleship-sized jointer, only use lumber that's less than 8" wide, or build a sled for your planer. Option 1 is not common (and for good reason - besides the expense, a 6000 lb., 16" wide machine can be a bit difficult to handle), Option 2 is not acceptable if furniture is to be built, and option 3 still leaves you with a 12" or 13" wide limitation.

In my opinion, that's still not acceptable. For furniture, you need to be able to handle the widest case side commonly encountered as a single board, and that's 20" to 24". This is, in my view, the primary practical reason to learn to 4-square and smooth a board with handplanes ("practical" ignoring the justifiable reason of cutting down the noise, dust and danger).

[David Gendron]

I think that Dan's best route, would be to find a shop, someone with the big tools and pay the $ needed to get the job done! I'm a hand tools only wood worker and I think it's a great way of working wood. But it takes time to get things done and it's ok with me and my clients! But this is my choice and not likely the choice of everyone. So what would say, If you like to sand, you don't even need a plane....

[Dan Hilgart]

Thank you everyone for your help. Some great (and varying) advice in this thread. I've decided to purchase a #7 (pre-sharpened) which a creeker offered me on the cheap. I'm going to give that a try for the plane flattening, then use my router table as a jointer to square up the edge. For the purposes of this project, I think that will be good enough. Thanks all!

[michael osadchuk]

...Do accept Lowell's invitation to contact the woodworker's club of Houston.... there is nothing like hands on experience with a reasonable knowledgeable woodworker to learn manual skills.... a local woodworker would also have good information about where to get tools and supplies, both retail and privately.....

.... I echo the refrain about learning to sharpening/hone a plane blade being essential to making a plane perform wonderfully ....and getting into sharpening need not be expensive as others have said

good luck

michael