Took 600 hours to complete...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I was just reading the letters to the editor in the new FWW mag, and noticed the one about time spent on projects in the readers gallery section. Never really thought about this before, but is it considered to be good to spend more time on a project? I've always thought that quicker is better, as long as quality is uncompromising. Thoughts?

[David DeCristoforo]

On my last "major" project I billed for over six thousand hours. Whatever it takes.

[dan mosheim]

Hi Steve ... a valid question in my opinion. one can often create perfect things with endless time. with endless time, one can also run the risk of creating what we refer to in our shop as 'perfectly executed' pieces, lifeless 'beamed from above' pieces that can sometimes seem otherworldly in their perfection. We have fixed and amazing number of the highest quality antiques that invariably show 'the mark of the hand', something that seems to give them a warm human quality. more time is not necessarily better in my opinion; the balance between quality, time spent and quality results is the key. also, on a more mundane note, the bills must be paid ....thanks for asking ... dan moshiem, dorset custom furniture, dorset, vermont

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Whatever it takes to make the project go smoothly. I find sometimes if I am willing to take an unlimited amount of time, being determined to make everything absolutely perfect I tend to make more mistakes.

[Jim Rimmer]

I saw those letters and the reply and wondered the same thing. IHMO that was WAAAY to much time but it was his project so he can do whatever he wants. My shop time is so rare I don't spend that much time on a single project. If I did I would only have one or two for the rest of my life.

If the guy is a perfectionist or can bill for that much time, so be it. As a hobby, that's too much for a single project.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Why does it matter?

I may have less skill or experience than you and take 10 times as long to accomplish something.

So what?

[Matt Sollars]

David,
That is 750, 8 hour days. What in the world took over two straight years of 8 hour days to complete. I'm intrigued.

Matt

[Larry Browning]

As far as I as am concerned the longer the better. My day job is a constant battle with the clock. I am always under pressure to get it done faster. So I made myself a promise that I would NEVER put a deadline on any woodworking project I did. This is my hobby and I want to enjoy doing it. The project will be done when it is done. I like to take my time and do things at a pace that has no stress. I actually take pride in being the slowest woodworker on the planet.
I like taking my time and working at a leisurely pace. My focus is usually on how to do a operation safely and accurately, never on speed.

Also, since almost all of my projects are either for my own use or as a gift to someone, the slower I go, the less money I spend on materials. Wood is expensive, so I want to get as much joy out of that wood as I can. The old saying "time is money" applies for me as well, only opposite of what it was originally meant.

[Cody Colston]

I think a lot of people seriously over-estimate the time they spend on a project, especially hobbiest woodworkers.

I was looking at an issue of FWW where a reader had submitted a picture of a 4-drawer Bombe chest in the gallery. The caption stated that he had over 1500 hours in the chest, including researching the design, practicing dovetails on curved stock and finishing. That's over a half a year of time figuring 8 hour work days. I just have difficulty believeing that much time was actually spent on it.

I think a person could whittle one out with a pocket knife in 1500 hours.

[johnny means]

David,
That is 750, 8 hour days. What in the world took over two straight years of 8 hour days to complete. I'm intrigued.

Matt
I think we can assume this was not an individual endeavor. 6000 hours is not a huge amount of time for a large home or a commercial job. In a five man shop working a little over time that's only six months or so.

[Dick Strauss]

Amen Matt and Cody!
I think folks are exagerating the time factor to make the pieces sound more complicated and grand than they really are. Maybe they tell their wives it takes that long so they can drink beer out in the shop for 6 out of 8 hours out there.

I've been going about it all wrong! I should say I spend 6 hours per week mowing the lawn even though I spend the first 5 hours procrastinating and thinking about doing it while only the last hour is actually spent working!

build time = 1500 hours = 6 hrs/day for 5 days/week for 50 weeks
full-time job = 2000 hours = 8 hrs/day for 5 days/week for 50 weeks

[Eiji Fuller]

They dont even realize how much more impressive it would be it if they would have said it only took them 45 hours to complete.

I woodwork for a living and it is hard to sell a piece of furniture for $36,000 which is 600hrs @ 60.00/hr. I built the music stand on my website including finishing time in less than 30 hrs. I sold 2 @ 1200.00 and didnt make squat.

[Nate Carey]

...from my July 30th post in Boat Building...



I built my first boat 44 years ago and have built several since. Within the last 15 years I have built and sold 12 of the same design. For this particular design, I've got the routine down (at this point in my part-time boat building venture) to where I actually make a little money on each boat sold.


...that's 110 hours per boat (single shell)...does not include time spent procuring materials...does include 5 coats of varnish to the exterior of the hull and 3 to the interior...the finished boat sells for $4500.00...oars extra!

[Mike Cruz]

If you read two manuscripts, one from someone who typed 120 wpm and one who typed 30 wpm, assuming neither one had flaws, which one is better?

My point, it is not how many hours are in, it is that the job got done right. The person typing 120 wmp just gets paid 4 times the hourly rate of the latter person.

Another scenario, the person who typed 120 wpm had 3 spelling errors, and the person who typed 30 wpm had none, which one is better? I've had bosses that would prefer the former employee because of productivity. I've had bosses that reward the latter because of quality.

Personally, I prefer the latter. It doesn't matter how fast you got the project done 5 years later when using/looking at/showing off a project. Your name is on it. Have some pride. Likewise, don't beat a dead horse. When it is done, let it be so. At some point, you can get too picky and NO ONE will see what you perceive as "needing" to be fixed.

[David DeCristoforo]

Over a two and a half year period with my son and I working on it....

http://www.daviddecristoforo.com/bardis/index.html

[Jeff Willard]

I think a lot of people seriously over-estimate the time they spend on a project, especially hobbiest woodworkers.


I don't, but I spend a lot of time just staring at it :eek:. Oh, you meant time actually working on it? Sorry.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I showed something I did to a professional and he pointed out the mistakes and claims it would take him a 1/4 of the time for him to build it. He wasn't trying to be rude though so I just took it as constructive criticism. :)

I really believe him though because I've seen some guys with production experience and it just boggles my mind how "machine" like they are. They understand measurements like it was breathing and they just cut and move from station to station...

The more years of practice you have, the faster you will likely be. Though some people seem to just be gifted in that they can multi-task, think many moves ahead, and everything is just fluid and flawless.

[Robert Reece]

Over a two and a half year period with my son and I working on it....

http://www.daviddecristoforo.com/bardis/index.html


Wow, that is sweet stuff. If I ever make something like one of those pieces, I might rest my woodworking case.

[Dewald van Lamp]

I don't, but I spend a lot of time just staring at it :eek:. Oh, you meant time actually working on it? Sorry.

And that is why I love woodworking...

;)

[Chip Lindley]

When one is obsessed with *creating*, and *getting it right*, time is meaningless. Why you think they are called *starving artists*? It is a blessing and also a curse!

Pope Julius II: "But when will you make an end of it!!??"
Michelangelo: "When it is finished!"
— From the film "The Agony and the Ecstacy"

[Steve Rozmiarek]

On my last "major" project I billed for over six thousand hours. Whatever it takes.

Thats beautiful work David!

[jason lambert]

Yea I think the est are high. I Like the idear above I should send in a project and tell them it took me 3 hours ;) See what the responce would be.

I use to rush in the shop made some mistakes stressed my self out, I don't knwo why this is a hobbie. Now I am taking my time more and enjoying it more, put on some good music and work away. Yes it takes longer but I had to look back and relise why I am doing this in the first place.

[Brian Kent]

On my last "major" project I billed for over six thousand hours. Whatever it takes.

What amazing work!

[Rye Crane]

David,

Wow, I think those 6000 hours were very well spent. Hopefully you were
compensated very, very well for this beautiful house. I guess it takes as
long as it takes to do your best work.

Thanks for sharing, wonderful work.

Rye Crane
Pittsburg, Ca.

[Sam Layton]

Wow Dave,

That is great work. Did you do the finishing as well?

Sam

[Peter Quinn]

I don't think the number of hours listed for some of those pieces in FWW is out of line with the complexity or exaggerated. What is truly amazing is that the craftsman spent that much time on a project AND still had time to track every single hour he spent over months or years doing the work.

I spent 375 hours this winter making a teak banquet and other furniture for a client of the shop I work for. i know exactly how much time it took because my boss requires a weekly accounting of how each day was spent for billing purposes. I can then go back and look at the log to chart hours later. But when I'm in my own shop? Who the Bleep bleep bleep wants to be bothered charting every minute spent on a wood working project.

I think its a good idea on a commercial shop to track your hours and develop data to set your shop rate and improve efficiency when possible. In my own shop for fun, not so much. Of course if you find the minutia to be exciting then y all means chart away.

[John Lucas]

Why does it matter?

I may have less skill or experience than you and take 10 times as long to accomplish something.

So what?

I like Jim's answer. It doesnt matter but it can be of interest. Years ago I saw Roy Underhill tour the Winthurter museum and the curator was showing a pic crust table made in the early years and they both looked at the cabinet makers journal describing that very piece. It took 7 or 8 hours to complete from crude stock beginning to finishing. I was amazed then and am now. But; they didnt take coffee breaks, nor long lunches, they started somethng and worked until it was done...and most of all, they knew what they were doing. I am guilty of taking that much time to set up the router table (including finding it.)