Possible Japanning source?

[Tom Henderson2]

Good evening everyone.

I recently used some of this acid-resistant paint for the bottom of a battery box, and came to realize that it may be an excellent alternative for those that want to re-japan their old Stanley's.

http://tinyurl.com/l8824a

It is asphalt based and sure looks like the old japanning....

Anybody tried this stuff?

I just used in on the bottom of a battery box, but it seemed to be easy to apply and dryed with surprisingly few brush marks.

Best part is that is is readily available and not very expensive at $15/qt.

Anybody looking to experiment with a possible japanning alternative, I would suggest giving this stuff a try.

-Tom H.

[Jim Koepke]

Sounds interesting.

Just curious:

Does it dry to a glossy finish?

How hard is the finish?

Does it look like a thick or a thin finish?

jim

[Richard Dooling]

I'm very interested in this. Could you possibly paint a scrap of something and post a picture?

I'm OK with my most recent paint job using Krylon satin black but it just doesn't have that thick, wet tar look that I see in some well preserved Japanning.


.

[Jim Koepke]

...that thick, wet tar look that I see in some well preserved Japanning.

.

Now that's what I'm talking about.

jim

[Tom Henderson2]

Sounds interesting.

Just curious:

Does it dry to a glossy finish?

How hard is the finish?

Does it look like a thick or a thin finish?

jim

It does dry to a pretty glossy finish. I used a cheapo Harbor Freight chip brush to apply it, and it seemed to flow on pretty nicely. I put on two coats, a day or two apart, and it seemed like a pretty hard surface. I didn't really give it much of a test, though, and it probably wasn't fully cured before I put the battery back in.

Any idea how to test this stuff further? I don't have a plane that needs to be japanned..... it is easy enough to paint up some wood or metal coupons, but beyond that I'm a little fuzzy on other ideas.

I shoulda brought the stuff home but foolishly left it at the hangar. I'll bring it home the next time I'm at the airport; maybe this weekend but it may not be until the week after.

-TH

[Jim Koepke]

It does dry to a pretty glossy finish. I used a cheapo Harbor Freight chip brush to apply it, and it seemed to flow on pretty nicely. I put on two coats, a day or two apart, and it seemed like a pretty hard surface. I didn't really give it much of a test, though, and it probably wasn't fully cured before I put the battery back in.

Any idea how to test this stuff further? I don't have a plane that needs to be japanned..... it is easy enough to paint up some wood or metal coupons, but beyond that I'm a little fuzzy on other ideas.

I shoulda brought the stuff home but foolishly left it at the hangar. I'll bring it home the next time I'm at the airport; maybe this weekend but it may not be until the week after.

-TH

Thanks for the reply Tom.

I hope it cured before the battery went back in or it might make getting the battery out of the case a real challenge. I think some people put a barrier between the coating and the battery to prevent this.

A test painting even on the lid of the can would be good. Then after a day or two test it for hardness with a fingernail. If you want to go for the destructive testing, see how it holds up to scratching with an iron nail. Try it after a day, then two, three and so forth to see if it continues to harden after a few days.

On the few planes of mine that time was spent to repaint, spray paint was used. There are some problems with over spray and having to either mask or clean paint off later. Being able to brush it on might be nice. Probably be stuck with using cheap brushes since it looks like it might need a special thinner to clean up.

jim

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Japanning needs to be baked.
It's (a) asphaltum (get it from any printer supply or art supply)
(b)A fluid base some use spirits others Naptha I think Naptha is better and (c) BLO. (d) Some folks use a marine varnish too or in place of the BLO.

The proportions you need to work out yourself but, you want it thick enough that it doesn't run too badly and thin enough that it flows into the micro pores of the metal surface and cracks.

Some folks skip the baking step they just let the stuff bench cure for a couple weeks to get off the VOCs
Baking however does one thing more I (or so I believe): It fuses the asphaltum at a molecular level. But that's just me thinking about the stuff and what I know about materials sciences, and not the result of any indepth research.

Oh look a museum agrees with me about baking: http://cameo.mfa.org/browse/record.asp?subkey=5007
Of course one has no way to know whether that bit about baking is the result of some one doing what I did (just thinking) or research, since they cite to no authority. Just because one reads it on the internet doesn't make it so.

Or you can just buy it:
http://www.libertyonthehudson.com/pontypool.html
They have tints and pigments too


I should guess if you are using Varnish that baking above whatever the high temp tolerance range for your varnish might not be the way to go.

There are many formulations for making your own Japan enamel online

Here's an old PDF on building the ovens for baking the enamel.
I especially liked this part:
"During these tests, it was noted that after each explosion
the flames appeared to burn from the floor.
It was first thought that this was the result of the
enamel being blown out of the container, but more
thorough investigation disclosed that the flame was due
to the ignition of the volatile gases, which appeared
to settle on the floor."
https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/33668/1/OS_ENG_v08_i04_009.pdf
"after each explosion"

[Richard Dooling]

Great stuff Cliff! The need to bake the asphaltum mixture is what got me curious about the battery shelf paint. The Liberty on the Hudson black Japanning asphaltum paint looks promising given their description, “The original eighteenth century European hard, gloss black finish imitating Japanese black lacquer.” I’m not sure how many lifetimes it would take me to use up a quart though.

I’m just rehabbing users but it would be nice to more closely emulate the look of the old Japanning. Going the full restoration route is interesting but I’m not sure how enthused the LOML would be at some half-baked idea of a fully baked plane in the oven. I have to admit though that the prospect of the mixture exploding has some appeal. We’ve been thinking of remodeling the kitchen.

Jim, you’ve seen the simple way I mask a plane before spraying. I just tape the frog area and the sides with blue tape very quick and not too dirty. But the other thing I do is to spray before the final sanding clean up of the plane body. That way the minor over-spray I have to deal with is just part of the general clean up. I have not been bothering to mask the boss where the tote attaches because it's to much of a PITA to do neatly and it has not been an issue.

The only part I feel I have to brush is the frog itself, as I find that easier than masking all those important bearing surfaces.
.

[Jim Koepke]

"after each explosion"

I will be sure my wife is off shopping for the day before trying this.

Reminds me of the time during college I was building a power supply. It was about 1:30 am. It was a variable split bridge and one of the outputs was not there. Trying to get an output by cranking it up caused the filter cap, that was connected in reverse polarity, blew up. I was sitting there with a blank stare and a what was that feeling, when the wife walked in and said, "don't you think it is time for bed?"



Jim, you’ve seen the simple way I mask a plane before spraying. I just tape the frog area and the sides with blue tape very quick and not too dirty. But the other thing I do is to spray before the final sanding clean up of the plane body. That way the minor over-spray I have to deal with is just part of the general clean up. I have not been bothering to mask the boss where the tote attaches because it's to much of a PITA to do neatly and it has not been an issue.

The only part I feel I have to brush is the frog itself, as I find that easier than masking all those important bearing surfaces.
.

I use the blue tape also. Last time though I tried something Johnny Kleso suggested. Of course, he does planes in mass, so having them side by side keeps the sides from getting painted.
I find it easy to mask the frogs. All the parts are removed, some tape is wrapped around the depth adjusting screw and the blade surface is covered. Then an Xacto knife is used to trace around the edges of the lever and screw wells.

I have not bothered to refinish many of my planes, but the feel against the hand on a repainted plane has been so nice, I am beginning to get spoiled and may consider doing more of them.

jim