Jet 1642 evs-2 Help

[Chris Stolicky]

Okay, so I purchased this lathe back in May. I posted pics of it set up because we all know it didn't happen unless there are pics. Anyway, all I have attempted so far is to rough out 8 green bowls, turn two tool handles, and attempt a plate of sorts. Basically, it hasn't been used very much.

Over the little time I have used the machine I noticed there was a knocking/light grinding sound at lower rpms. Once it sped up it went away. However, I roughed out a boxelder blank last night (minor stealth gloat here) and the noise got really bad, and the motor got really hot. I rushed to finish the roughing out in hopes to salvage the bowl and not do too much damage to whatever the problem may be. I took two short videos of it, and posted them on my Flickr account. The links are below.

Also below are some pictures that show: 1) My little shop isn't always clean :D, and 2) the stealth gloat of the flaming boxelder.

However, back to the problem here. Could this simply be a matter of having the belt too tight? Or, could it be the bearings or worse yet, the motor? :confused: :mad: Could it be human error? I would rather the latter as it might save me a big headache.

I plan on contacting Jet today about the issue. I was really looking forward to having this machine working this weekend as I have the father-in-law coming into town and am working on converting him into a future turner!

I am wondering if this is a similar problem as Mac Cambra had? See link: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=113463&highlight=bearing

Any suggestions from the vast working knowledge here would be greatly appreciated?

Links to videos that really show what is happening:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33681182@N08/3768024349/in/set-72157621881626818/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33681182@N08/3768821470/in/set-72157621881626818/

Thanks,
Chris

[Don Orr]

You already are acting on the best advice I could give by contacting Jet.

Are you able to isolate the noise to a specific location-pulleys, motor, bearings, etc. ? Have you checked the set screws on the pulleys ? Does it make the noise when rotated by hand ?

Nice wood too ! Good looking bowl in progress.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chris - first off - that is one great looking bowl! Looking forward to seeing it finished!

As far as your lathe - you are correct - it should not be doing that! Try removing the drive belt and rotate the spindle by hand and see if you have any clicking. Then rotate the motor - and see if you can determine where the noise is coming from. I would also check and make sure that the RPM sensor on the spindle isn't contacting.

Get back to us with what you find.

[Chris Stolicky]

We'll see if I can eventually turn it into a bowl.

I called Jet, and after a minute I was cut off. I was on a cell phone - so who knows..?

I called back, left a message for the first tech, but then just ended up speaking to a different tech.

Between the two techs I spoke to, they said to take the belt off and rotate each piece separately (shaft & motor) and see if I can isolated the clicking noise. The second tech said (with confidence) that I probably just have a loose pulley and to tighten up the set screws. He stressed to tighten up the key screw (I think that's what he called it) first as it aligns the pulley. I will be able to tell when I look at it.

Well, I will hopefully be able to get out there tonight and take a closer look. I'm at work now, and have have newborn duty tonight. I can't complain, the wife has been great with most (really, nearly all) of the baby stuff.

Let's hope the solution is that simple. I will let you know.

Hey, as far at the flaming in the boxelder, any recommendations on finishes that have UV protectors in them. I actually soaked some Armor All into some purple heart once before I sealed it with poly, and it seems to have helped. I know the sun will eventually win, but I'd like to think we can delay the inevitable.

Steve, I have never really looked inside the headstock much. I'll have to check out that rpm sensor.

[alex carey]

can't help with your problem but i have to say that wood is beautiful.

[Chris Stolicky]

Okay, an update. Here are some more videos from tonight. I have narrowed it down to the motor. I will be calling Jet in the morning.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33681182@N08/3770803740/in/set-72157621881626818/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33681182@N08/3770005349/in/set-72157621881626818/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33681182@N08/3770008605/in/set-72157621881626818/

And some dry humor:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33681182@N08/3770009907/in/set-72157621881626818/

I really hope this is not going to be a hassle!

I do find it interesting that the manufacture date on the motor is March 2008, when I purchased the machine in May 2009. It must have sat around for a while.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

To me it sounds like the pulley has moved and is rubbing against the housing

[Brian Novotny]

If you were pointing to a different area I would say it was just the fan blades at the back of the motor hitting the housing /\

[Chris Stolicky]

To me it sounds like the pulley has moved and is rubbing against the housing

The pulley is actually not touching anything. Its hard to tell from the videos, but the shaft the pulley is on, is not running true. It is actually oscillating slightly. I did check the set screws on the pulley and they were tight.


If you were pointing to a different area I would say it was just the fan blades at the back of the motor hitting the housing /\

I made it a point to look and feel on that part of the motor. I have emailed a bit with Malcolm who has had his motor replaced twice, and he advised me to check that. And sure enough, you can feel whatever it is inside hitting (grinding :eek:) against that spot.

[Greg Bender]

Chris,
It sounds like the tail end bearings might of let go and the armature is rubbing the stator.That would be the cause of heat but it would also cause a layer short in the armature , since it still runs and your not getting shocked touching the outer shell...I'm not sure.When you speed it up it quiets down so the gap opens up at speed.Did you have a jam or a catch that could of damaged the main shaft?The answer from Jet should be interesting.Good Luck,
Greg

[Mac Cambra]

I have been through all of this with Jet and they finally admitted that this has been an ongoing problem and that it has since been fixed. Like Chris said I have been through this twice. The first time it happened I too thought it was the fan blades rubbing on the end cap but I removed the cap and the problem remained.

The tech service guy I dealt with at Jet was Dave (I checked my notes), he knows of this problem and just be direct with him. He will ask you to mail him the motor plate sticker and they will send you a replacement motor, the whole process takes about a week. Granted I am in FL and they are in TN, so if you are farther away it may take a little longer.

Replacing the motor is easy, I wouldn't bother pulling the headstock and taking it to a service center.

Good Luck

[Ryan Baker]

Sounds like you are on track with the Jet repair. Meanwhile, that is a fabulous piece of box elder you have there. Can't wait to see the finished piece.

[Don Orr]

Sounds* like you are on the right track. Lots of great info so far. I was not aware of an ongoing motor problem. I hope it gets fixed soon, but kind of seems it could take longer than you would like. If I can help in any way, feel free to give a call. I'm in the phone book.

*Sorry about the really bad pun.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

OK the oscillating would fit in with the end bearing gone out, as I was listening it sounded like rubbing metal to metal and assumed the pulley might have moved over, as the fan blades usually aren't a problem unless the motor was dropped or similar.
Hope Jet will rectify that bad motor problem for you.

[Chris Stolicky]

Okay, update.

I spoke to the tech this morning and he didn't sound surprised that it was the motor. I did also send him a link to the videos. He was very nice about it and gave me a couple of options. Basically, they need the plate off of the motor in order to replace it. I can either send it to them and wait for them to receive it before they ship out the new motor, or I can do the credit card hold and credit once they receive the motor plate.

So, I chose the latter option. Unfortunately, its being shipped UPS ground from Tennessee. So, expected delivery is Tuesday. Not really what I was looking for, but I have to be reasonable and am happy that a solution is underway. I did inquire about faster delivery, and it was quite pricey! So, it is what it is. I just hope that this 1) solves the problem, and 2) its a fairly easy swap. I'll have time to work on some sharpening skills in the meantime, huh? There is also the mini sitting next to it - that still gets use. I actually cranked out a pen two days ago that is being finished.

Overall, there was clarification that needed to be worked out between the techs and the customer service people, but I am happy with the service. I mean this is really what service comes down to, making good on your product with little hassle. As long as they have solved the manufacturer problem with these motors, I don't think its fair to expect too much more.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Sounds like you are on your way to having this resolved! Hope the motor arrives soon and it takes care of the problem!

[Don Orr]

Glad to hear they are taking care of this. My offer to help stands.

[Mike Lipke]

Consider using it with the bad motor until tuesday.
It is going back as junk anyway.....

[Leo Van Der Loo]

So if hey only need the plate, and you keep the motor, why not tear the back end off and see, if all you need is a new bearing, replacing that would give you a spare motor for just a few dollars, if that's all it is, of course that is a ? right now.
Just a thought and it can't hurt to have a look, that's what I would do for sure ;-))

[Mike Lipke]

Leo's idea is great!
As Oliver Hardy said to Stan, "Now, you are using my brain!"

[Chris Stolicky]

Consider using it with the bad motor until tuesday.
It is going back as junk anyway.....



So if hey only need the plate, and you keep the motor, why not tear the back end off and see, if all you need is a new bearing, replacing that would give you a spare motor for just a few dollars, if that's all it is, of course that is a ? right now.
Just a thought and it can't hurt to have a look, that's what I would do for sure ;-))

Both of you guys think like I do!

One, I figured that as long as it didn't literally burn up, there really isn't much else that could be damaged. Lathes are pretty simple machines.

And two, being the engineer I am, I figured that if it isn't totally ceased, I could attempt opening it up and see what the issue is. However, the last I opened up a motor was an old router I had, and that did not work out so well :rolleyes:.

If I did get it working again, it can really only be used as a back up at this point in time. Being that its 220v and three phase, I really have no way to run it without an inverter.... It would sure make a good 42 lb paper weight though!

[Chris Stolicky]

Okay, here's the update - and another question?

I did get the new motor late Tuesday. I had asked for Jet to give me the tracking number, I was told it would be sent to me on Friday, and I never received it.

So, I was in the dark as far as where my motor actually was, but it made it safely.

I finally swapped out the motor today. It was rather easy - one screw, four wires, and six bolts. Pretty straight forward. So, the motor was installed, I ran it for a while on both belt settings, fast and slow, and everything looked like it was running smoothly (no load though).

I went out later and decided to turn a bit. I quickly learned that the motor is running backwards! I rewired the new motor the same way as the old. I even wrote the sequence of the colors on the wall in my shop so I wouldn't forget!

Anyway, since there are three 110v feeds (and 1 ground) going from the inverter to the motor, is it a matter of a couple of the wires being reversed. Everything seems to work fine, its just the headstock says "forward" when its actually going backwards. :rolleyes:

Does anyone know what would cause this???

Thanks.

[Chris Stolicky]

Just so I wasn't crazy...

I looked at the manual and found the wiring diagram. Before some recommended that to me.:rolleyes: I then went out to the shop to verify the wires were correct. And.... they are.

I'm stumped.

Its kind of funny, but its also a bit frustrating.....

[Alan Trout]

Chris on a 3 phase motor you can switch any two hot wires and it switches directions. No big deal. The motor may be wired slightly different internally than the old one.

Alan

[Chris Stolicky]

Chris on a 3 phase motor you can switch any two hot wires and it switches directions. No big deal. The motor may be wired slightly different internally than the old one.

Alan

So if I understand this correctly, my new motor may be wired slightly different than the old one, and also the way it is listed in the manual. Actually, reversed.

However, since there are two hot legs (black and red), if I switch the two, it should work properly?

It makes sense to me. The result is basically reversing the phases.

I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

[Tom Johnson Ohio]

Chris,

I had the same problem on my 2hp Jet last year. I replaced the motor, carefully wired it the same, and it ran backwards. Easiest fix was to open the front cover and flop the two wires on the reversing switch. Works great now.

Tom

[Alan Trout]

Chris,

It is just like Tom said. Remember single phase is fed into the vfd but 3 phase comes out, so there is 3 hot legs to the motor. The reverse switch should be in line before the motor so switching any 2 of the 3 legs will reverse the motor rotation.

Good Luck

Alan

[Chris Stolicky]

The lathe is finally running properly, and smooth.

We went ahead and used the lathe quite a bit over the weekend, just kept in mind that when the switch said "rev" it was actually forwards.

Anyway, I contacted Jet yesterday to see what the official 'fix' is for the problem (knowing that any method above would work) and the tech simply said flip two of the wires on the motor. He said that would switch the phases and it would work properly. I did mention the wires to the reversing switch, and he said not to mess with those.

Anyway, its working now and my saga is hopefully over now. Okay, now I can focus on actually using the machine for its intended use! I still lots of green/semi dried chunks laying around to rough out.

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.