Shop "expansion" project commences...

[Jim Becker]

...but I guess it's not really an "expansion"; rather, it's an exercise in making things fit better by making a little structural modification.

My shop has a stairway to the upper level smack in the back middle of the shop which has somewhat limited tool arrangement due to the short "supporting" wall where it meets the second floor. Lately, that's where the band saw has been living, but I've not been happy with the location/direction of the table saw since I acquired the FS350 J/P (the "aircraft carrier") last November. The solution is to remove the wall...and that's just what I'm doing.

Frankly, there probably wouldn't be any problem with just removing the wall and forgetting about it--only one joist run is broken by the stairs, but being somewhat conservative about structure, I decided to do exactly what was done to support the master bath in the house when it was remodeled by the previous owner years ago...fly the stairs with supporting cables to the roof rafters. This will take any little bit of extra stress that this interruption in the joist structure will ever afford, especially if I ever get around to finishing the upper level for my office, etc.

The first two pictures illustrate the "before" and "after" space layout and the remaining pictures in the next post show the progress through 9p tonight. Once I get the rest of the wall down, I can play with equipment placement before re-establishing power and dust collection as appropriate for the rearranged space.

[Jim Becker]

Progress Pictures

[Jim Ketron]

Looks Like you have it under control Jim
Great job!
Jim

[Dick Parr]

You have been busy, very nice change that will get you more room. ;) There is never enough room. :(

[Sparky Paessler]

More room is always better. looks good. My expansion work tomorrow is going to involve a bobcat in the middle of the shop and lots of dirt.

[Jerry Olexa]

Jim looks like you've got it corrected and fast ! Another option might be (altho I can't see that portion of the stairs) to double or triple up the "header" w 2" stock where the top of the stairs meets the 2nd story floor. In effect, you'd be creating a load carrying short beam and the stairs would be attached free standing to that. Just an idea. Otherwise, looks good as is. Enjoy your new space!

[Dennis Peacock]

Looks good Jim.....I bet you'll like having that extra space for better organization and layout of the shop. Well done.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
The opening for the stair should be framed with double joists. You have TJI's and these should be double. The stringers should be resting on a double joist or beam. If you want to send me more info....ie, joist sizes ,spans I can give you some idea of the structural issues if any...."Avatar Master" accronym "AM"

[Alan Schaffter]

move the stairs outside.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Excellent solution Jim!! That will more than support the stairs. I didn't know you were an engineer too...:D

[Michael Stafford]

Suspension stairs not unlike a suspension bridge. No swinging allowed, right? Creative solution!

[Jim Becker]

Another option might be to double or triple up the "header" w 2" stock where the top of the stairs meets the 2nd story floor. Already exists.


For even more space - move the stairs outside.Not possible, but there will eventually be an entryway at the back of the building for the top floor that will serve as a normal entryway to my future office. The inside stairs have to stay for a variety of reasons, including eventual access to the upstairs bathroom from the shop. Further, the building is right smack on the property line...no place to put the stairs withour interfering with the driveway.


The opening for the stair should be framed with double joists. You have TJI's and these should be double. The stringers should be resting on a double joist or beam. If you want to send me more info....ie, joist sizes ,spans I can give you some idea of the structural issues if anyThe opening wasn't doubled, per se, by the original builder, but it was reinforced with plywood. Per my note to Jerry above, the stringers are attached to a doubled cross piece. The engineered beams are a full 12" tall with a span of about 20'6" and 16" OC. Only one span was interupted by the stairs and one bay was made a few inches wider to line up with the side of the stairs.

[Jim Becker]

Seein' light at the end of the tunnel! Tomorrow I clean up and begin to arrange and rearrange the tools to find the "optimal" setup for normal activities. Once that is determined, I can restore the power and dust collection connections. I'm really overwhelmed with the difference this little change makes in the usable space for the shop. Where before it was extremely broken up, I now have maximum access to the approximately 21' x 30' (less stairs, DC closet and lumber storage). Now...why didn't I put that miter station on the other wall??? :rolleyes: (It ain't movin' and inch...)

[Jack Diemer]

That was a great idea. Good work.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Much more usable space....very good idea!

[Todd Burch]

Jim, shop improvements are always worth the time. Back when I was hobbying woodworking, I wanted to break the garage into a parking area / working area, thus I put up those two interior walls you saw when here.

Now, I'm rethinking those walls, wondering if taking them down would allow for more throughput. (More room for bigger projects). But, I might be searching down a shop to lease too... It's just $$ I guess.

[Jerry Todd]

Great solution Jim. Good luck.
Jerry

[Jim Becker]

Jim, shop improvements are always worth the time. Back when I was hobbying woodworking, I wanted to break the garage into a parking area / working area, thus I put up those two interior walls you saw when here.

Now, I'm rethinking those walls, wondering if taking them down would allow for more throughput. (More room for bigger projects). But, I might be searching down a shop to lease too... It's just $$ I guess.
Yes, I remember those walls. I would say that if you plan on continuing to work alone or maybe with one helper, try to stay where you are and make improvements to the shop as warranted. You have a great building already and no "additional" rent over your mortgage! Keeping overhead as low as possible will fund additional tools as well as keep the family eating well. You could easily carve out a dedicated finishing room to help with throughput, too. I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember an upper floor that can/does serve as office space. You could also put a small bench room there dedicated for hand-tooling details and small tool work, such as dovetailing. The fact that the building is detached from your home is also nice from an insurance/noise perspective. (I like that about mine, too, should I need to use the space for income sometime in the future)

Now, if you were going to upsize and start having additional help working concurrently, than it's probably worth checking out local flex space so you can spread things out a bit more...

IMHO, of course! Your mileage may vary... :D

While my plans for the upstairs of our building have largely centered on my office (for the real job), a bathroom and some "flex space" to handle additional guests, lately I've been considering carving out the so-called "flex space" and using it for artistic work, such as carving/detailing and maybe even turning. Who knows?

[Chad Pater]

Nice work Jim. I can tell just by the pictures how it opens things up. I'm sure you will enjoy working with the extra space.

[Jim Becker]

I had a little less time in the shop today than I would have preferred...had to mow the lawn and do a few other necessary things around the house, but did make some progress toward rearranging the tools. It's being largely a "visual" exercise through moving things around until they make sense.

What really DOES make sense is that I finally can have the J/P and TS both oriented the "long way" in the shop and directly opposed. This leaves a lot of space on both ends of the shop for other workstations. Pulling this off did require reversing the orientation of the J/P into the space under the stairs (perfect clearance all around, including the fence "post") and turning the TS in the opposite direction it was last summer when I was working the kitchen project. I'll have to flop the electricals tomorrow, but that's no big deal...the J/P requires a 30a circuit and the TS uses a 20a circuit...just a little wire rearrangement to deal with that. DC will not be a problem either and may actually be enhanced at the TS. The BS will live near the entry door which gives it enough clearance in both directions for reasonable resaw duties.

Tomorrow, I'll complete the movement for the rest of the tools/benches/cabinets and deal with the electrical. I'll also cover the DC as much as possible, hedging that I may need to order a few components from Oneida to optimize things the way I really want them.

Pics:

1) Moving the 800 lb lathe required putting it back on the Vega mobile base I keep for such things...the Tundra's jack comes in handy for a little lift where needed to install (and remove) the base

2) View from the entry door of progress so far. Please note that the lathe is not staying where it is at that particular moment!

3) View from SW corner of progress so far.

[Tyler Howell]

You're Cookin Jim!;)

[Tom Sweeney]

Man that looks like a completely different shop Jim!
Good job so far - looks like a much more efficient setup to me -& I thought the old way was fine.

BTW - looks like the stubby is positioned perfectly to roll onto my trailer ;) :D

[Terry Hatfield]

j,

Ohhh...nice idea. That should help out a bunch!! Nothing like gaining a little more shop space.

t

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Makes a wolrd of difference Jim. Funny how one little wall can open up so much space when removed!!

[Frank Pellow]

I agree that the one small change seems to create a more open look and feal. A job well done!

[Jim Becker]

Today, I got power restored to all the tools and most of the dust collection dealt with. I also started moving some of the storage around. I will hopefully be able to complete most of the remaining work tomorrow. No pictures today...nothing "new" to look at.

[John Miliunas]

Such a relatively small change, yet such large gains! :) Way to go, Jim!!! :D Heck, you got enough room in there now to throw a party and have a dance floor! :D :cool:

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
Move out here...we need guys with your brains and ability...not a common occurance. Great job! I know you will appreciate the improvements. It makes me want to go in to my shop and re organize! Thanks for the inspiration

[Jim Becker]

Heck, you got enough room in there now to throw a party and have a dance floor!
Does that mean I have to host a picnic now?? Sheesh!

Seriously, I can already see that actually assembling a big project is going to be a heck of a lot easier with this "little change", while still allowing other work to proceed.

[Chris Padilla]

Wow...where did the 3-day weekend go??? Nice work, Jim. I'll post a stealth air-dried walnut haul I got this weekend and progress is slow but steady in my shop...just little things here and there but little things that will add up to a whole big bunch...eventually! Kinda just like your wall removal...opened up a whole new world! :D

[Jim Becker]

Wow...where did the 3-day weekend go???
5-day weekend for me, Chris!! :D It would be longer, but I made the mistake of scheduling customer visits/calls for the rest of the week before I "knew better"...:o

[Tom Sontag]

I have a couple observations after reading the thread from start to here:

1 - funny how much cleaner a shop looks when shown in CAD form!

2 - Agreeing with others, the benefits here are much more than a couple square feet - removing a bottle neck gives the whole shop greater width!

3 - I know one way to improve things even more. Don't laugh. But put some of that white paint on a few of the other walls: the difference in aesthetic space (a concept I just invented) will be at least as large as the change you have made. I left my joists natural, but my walls and loft ceiling are white and made a huge difference. The large doorways are a big asset to your shop, especially in nice weather. Make that spacious feeling be around all the time - paint some walls.

Check for PM Jim.

[Jim Becker]

I got a lot of small things put away today, although not nearly as much as I wanted to. This included moving the steel cabinets and stacking them, storing all the small power tools and finishing supplies, moving the clamp racks to the wall next to the entry door for more convenient access during assembly, relocation of my "screw collection" to the same wall on the other side of the miter station and getting all the turning blanks back up on shelves. I also installed an additional light fixture over the table saw...a dual T8 unit this time since that was what I could get; the older low-temp units I have elsewhere are no longer available at HD. So I guess I'll need to stock two types of bulbs now!

I'll be trying to get the rest done sometime this week and the coming weekend as it's time to get back to the project list.

Here's a couple of picture experiments...

1) Taken from just above the entry door
2) Taken from in front of the door to the remaining garage bay

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Did you stitch those pics together to get the panorama effect?

[Jim Ketron]

Looks like you've got it whiped Jim

Nice job
Jim

[Jerry Olexa]

Sometimes a small change brings BIG improvement!! This qualifies! Great job! But it takes imagination and foresight to plunge in and make it happen! Looks good! Norm, move over!! (Good pictures also!)

[Sparky Paessler]

Good looking shop! Is that a Stubby lathe in the background. Nice. I wish my shop was as far along.

[Jim Becker]

Did you stitch those pics together to get the panorama effect?
Yes, via Adobe Photoshop Elements "photomerge" wizzard.


Is that a Stubby lathe in the background.
Yup...

[Frank Pellow]

...

3 - I know one way to improve things even more. Don't laugh. But put some of that white paint on a few of the other walls: the difference in aesthetic space (a concept I just invented) will be at least as large as the change you have made. I left my joists natural, but my walls and loft ceiling are white and made a huge difference. The large doorways are a big asset to your shop, especially in nice weather. Make that spacious feeling be around all the time - paint some walls.

Check for PM Jim.

Tom, I couldn't agree more. I am planning to paint all the walls and ceiling in my new shop white. That's what I did in The Shed at Pellow's Camp and it makes a BIG difference.

[Frank Pellow]

...

Here's a couple of picture experiments...

1) Taken from just above the entry door
2) Taken from in front of the door to the remaining garage bay

Your experiments were a success. For me, at least, the panoramic effect gives me a real sense of the layout of your shop Jim.

[Jim Becker]

For me, at least, the panoramic effect gives me a real sense of the layout of your shop.
True, the panorama does give some indication of how things "sit", but the space is really exagerated with the extreme wide angle perspective...the room looks much bigger than its 21' x 30' really is. I could fix that a little in the software by not using the "perspective" option, but the knitting of the pics is not nearly as smooth with that approach. Once I have everything really "done", I'll take some more shots and try to make them clearer.


Tom, I couldn't agree more. I am planning to paint all the walls and ceiling in my new shop white.
I also agree with the concept. The walls in the newer portion of the shop are already painted an off-white and the modifications made last weekend got a coat of leftover paint before I started moving tools. That said, I do not intend to paint the original shop space as I actually like the natural wood color of the T1-11 on the walls and don't want to have to deal with taking down all the shelving, etc., to accomplish the task...I want to get back to woodworking projects. Maybe I'll do it someday, however...;)

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Jim,

very nice work and shop. Looks like a great place.
Is this a Sjöberg workbench displayed in the pic?

Regards,

Christian

[Jim Becker]

very nice work and shop. Looks like a great place.
Is this a Sjöberg workbench displayed in the pic?
Thanks, Christian. Yes, that's a Sjöberg bench. It works, but is very light weight...except when I'm lifting the end to move it, of course...I have casters on one end to allow for that. They do not touch the floor when it's sitting normally. The more I get involved with hand-tool use, the more I'm convinced that one project on my list needs to be a heftier bench. I was actually thinking about that in the Tundra while driving home from a customer appointment this afternoon. (The Sjöberg will then be used as an auxiliary bench or sold)

[Chris Padilla]

Are you thinking to make your own bench, Jim? If you plan to buy, what vendors might you look at? I see Woodcraft sells Sjöberg.

I'm needing a bench myself and while it would be fun to build one, I could spend the next 2 years just building my shop and nothing else. If I did that, I might as well live in there because that is where my wife would send me until the divorce was final and she could put me out into the street!!

[Jim Becker]

The Sjöberg I have came from Woodcraft not quite five years ago. It's not a horrible bench...just a little light if you want to do some serious hand-plane work. There are also much better vices available. To build your own quickly, you could just buy a pre-glued Maple top, add dog holes (round are obviously easier in this case), vices appropriate to your preferences and edging as well as a sturdy base. It is likely you could do that in a weekend when you eliminate all that glue-up time that a top lamination would take. Stangely enough, I may actually go with a multi-layer MDF benchtop capped with a replaceable hardboard panel. It's not as pretty as a laminated bench, but it would have some incredible mass and be relatively inexpensive to build. One of the mags did a bench like this a couple years ago and it was a compelling design. I can save the fancy-schmancy design for a future project when (and if) I get to retire. Prize Patrol...where are you???!!! :D

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Jim, hi Chris,

I also have one of those small Sjöberg benches (type SJ 1550 S) with two rows of square bench dog holes.
As you mentioned, it's pretty light and moves when you do some serious handplaning but the construction itself isn't bad IMO. My bench isn't located in the middle of the room so it was easy to screw it to the wall and the floor. Now handplaning is much more enjoyable. But, of course, a larger bench with a thicker top is better if you have enough space and can afford it.

Can't wait to see a complete shop tour (with detail pics).
Regards,

Christian

[Jerry Olexa]

I have the same bench. Its a little light @ times. I beefed it up w heavier legs and braces underneath. Overall, Im pretty happy w it!