next hand tool?

[jim hedgpeth]

Just pulled the trigger on a few items today. Wish I could do it more often, but this was a lot of saving. Here's whats on the way,
All Veritas
BU smoother
LA jack
card scraper set, the one with the holder and variable burnisher
Micro adj. wheel gauge
dovetail saddle
(OK hidden pre gloat:D:D)

I already have a stanley 60 1/2, Irwin flush cut saw(will use this for dovetails for now), old ?? hand saw, works really well, and a set of stanley chisels, not the greatest but they work.

My ?? is what would you guys recommend next? I have been leaning more and more towards neandering, though I do have a nice ts and a duel base router,with the fixed base in a table set-up.

As for what I build, a little of everything, mostly for around the house. I am currently building my first "big" project, a computer desk. On my honey do list are file cabinets, fancy bookshelves, a couple dressers, and .....a rolltop desk, of course it i a long way off.

On my short list
Gramercy dovetail saw, and holdfasts
good workbench (rubio style per C.S. Workbench book)
more planes, maybe LN cabinet scraper plane, jointer to finish my set??:confused:
better chisels
Clamps, clamps, And more clamps
Did I mention clamps?? Gluing one assembly at a time SUCKS.

I know there will be different responses but, opinion(s) and reasons anyone??

Thanks,
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

I am sure many others will offer their opinions.

My thought for doing shelving and drawers, one thing that comes in handy is a pair of side rabbet planes. Fitting a shelf, drawer bottom, or divider is a lot easier when you can take a shaving off the side of a dado or rabbet.

I think LV has a both sides in one set up and LN has a lefty and a righty.

A plow plane like a Stanley #45, #46, #50, #55 etc could also be a good investment.

There is also visions of a shoulder plane kicking around.

jim

[David Keller NC]

My thought is that you're going to need some tools for mortising and cutting tenons. That can be done a number of ways. Tenons can be done on a table saw with a dado set, mortises can be done with a router and (easier than using the fence) a mortising jig, together with an up-cut spiral carbide bit.

The dado set, router jig and carbide bit's going to set you back several hundred (or even close to a thousand with a Leigh FMT jig).

So if you want to do M&T by neander means, I'd consider a western backsaw filed rip. This would be a great excuse to buy a dovetail saw, but the Gammercy might not be the best choice if you want to use the same saw for both dovetails and tenons, because the grammercy dt saw has considerably less depth of cut than some of the other high-quality competitors. If you can afford to buy both a dt and a tenon saw, the grammercys should work well.

The other item to have when cutting M&T by hand are a few mortise chisels. My preference is for the Ray Iles that TFWW sells, though some prefer L-N. And you can also amass a decent set of antique ones for less money.

I've the capability to cut M&T with both power tools and hand tools, and I'd have to say that if you've 4 or less M&Ts to do, it's really easier to just whack them out with a mortise chisel and the saw rather than set up the machines and run through a series of test cuts to dial in the fit.

[Jacob Mac]

Jim:

If you are going to build a Roubo, then you will apprecaite having a jointer of some type. Personally, I just got a LV BUJ to flatten the top. But you can get several different jointers to accomplish this task.

And congrats on the new tools. Using hand tools that work well is one of the biggest joys of ww IMO. But the LV catalog can do damage to your bank account.

[Mark Maleski]

Jim,

Like many (most?) here, I have a wish list for tools a mile long. But when it comes to actually acquiring tools, my approach is pretty simple:
- What's my next project?
- What additional tools will I need to complete that project?
- Get those tools.

I keep reminding myself that my goal is to build stuff, not collect stuff. So my suggestion is to nail down your plans for your next project, and figure out what you'll need to build it. If you don't think your budget will support those purchases, choose a different project.

[Bill Houghton]

What's frustrating you? That is, what processes do you find difficult because your tools fall short? Mull that over as a guide to what will meet your needs best.

I've fallen into what camera folks used to call "chrome collecting" (back when cameras were shiny and used something called "film"), but I strive to avoid it.

[Gary Benson]

Jim,
Since you are already are familiar with the Veritas stuff, I would suggest giving their dovetail saw a try. It is well priced, well made, and works good. Maybe they will have a tenon saw out by the time you need it.
Upgraded chisels would also be high on my list, I have several LN's and well as several Blue Spruce, both are excellent and a joy to use.
Gary

[James Scheffler]

It may be you already have a work surface you can "muddle through" on, but I would make a real workbench with a quality front vise a really high priority. (I think quality metal vises like the ones from LV are fine, but there are other good choices as well). I personally don't use a tail vise, as I find a planing stop does pretty much everything I would use a tail vise for. Others will disagree. :eek:

Have fun!
Jim Scheffler

[Eric Brown]

A solid workbench that holds your wood firmly will allow all your handtools to work much better than if you are on a shaky table. Make a simple one now and plan on making a better one later after you have a better feel for what you need. It is the most used tool in the shop usually.

Eric

[John A Walker]

I reckon as long as your tools are halfway decent, they can always be made to perform better. Once they are working well, then you can't blame them if things go wrong.

Download this vid. It's about the bench, but you get a good idea of what well-fettled, old Stanleys can do.:)

(http://www.khalafoud.com/media/Roubohi.wmv)

I agree with the idea of designing a project that requires the use of a tool you don't have. That justifies tool buying. As has been pointed out, if you can't afford the tool you need, design a project you can complete without that tool; or find another way of achieving the new design feature using the tools you have. :)

[Mark Maleski]

I agree with the idea of designing a project that requires the use of a tool you don't have. That justifies tool buying.

I hope that thought's not attributed to me. It is funny though! :rolleyes:


As has been pointed out, if you can't afford the tool you need, design a project you can complete without that tool; or find another way of achieving the new design feature using the tools you have. :)

That's more like it. :)

[jim hedgpeth]

Sorry I did not get back to this sooner, worked a 12 last night.

Jim K. The plow plane is something I have looked at, but it is in the "some day" category, rather than "asap". The side rabbets on the other hand......may be "coming soon".

David I had not thought about using the Gramercy dt saw for tennons, good point on depth of cut. Hhmm, Gramercy carcase saws in rip and crosscut would match the dovetail saw.....:rolleyes:... I had thought about a mortise chisel (or 2 r 3 r 4;)) Just want 1 for now if I can figure out witch size. On that note 1/4 or 3/8 tennons for 3/4 stock? I know 1/4 would be "right" by division but 3/8 looks more right to me, is either one wrong, or is it preference?

anyway back to the subject

Jacob The same thought has crossed my mind about the jointer and Rubio. I am mulling that constantly. Very good possability it will be my next "Big" toy..er tool.

Mark, Bill, and John,

Finding the tools to "fix" what I dread or have problems doing is how this round of tools got chosen. Designing a project and looking to see what tools I need to get works too, very good advise there. It seems I have done this without realizing it before. Now I'll pay a bit more attention, and write down what I needed to make each project go smoother. Work-arounds are so common to me I sometimes don't think about it.

Gary I was unaware of the LV dt saw, thank you for mentioning it, looks good, seems well liked too. I will be checking on it some more.

James, Eric, and John

The workbench is "planned" as my next project after this computer desk and finishing my extension table cabinets on my (don't shoot, I know we're in neander haven) tablesaw. The chances of it happening that way......
My extension table cabinets were supposed to be done before the desk got started. But LOML did not agree, and convinsed (batting eye lashes "please?") me to do the desk now.

Thanks for the info guys, many points to think about, and other ?? to ask. That is a whole other thread though, after some looking to see if it's been asked before.

Thanks,
Jim

[jim hedgpeth]

I think in this order,
veritas dt saw (thanks for pointing it out Gary)
bu jointer -to finish the set and use on my new benchtop (when it gets done)
LN rabbet block plane- for tennon faces- I prefer chisels for the shoulders (so far )
chisels though I haven't decided which yet. At least 1 ea mortise and dt as well as a set of bench chisels
A lot more clamps

These are ones I can think of that I'll need to build my workbench. After that who knows.

[Jim Koepke]

A lot more clamps

To my way of thinking, clamps are a thing of life long accumulation.

The old saying is you can never have too many clamps.

Every time a clamp is spotted at a yeg (yard, estate, garage) sale, it gets my consideration.

jim

[jamie shard]

You'll want a couple of winding sticks and/or (I say and!) a long steel straight edge, too. And of course a square if you don't already have one. They really are essential for keeping the long surfaces flat and square.

Hope that helps!

[Sean Hughto]

I dunno what you already have exactly, but a good marking knife is key and worth spending some cash on - Blue Spruce is the one.

The other tool I grab for most every piece of wood is my Incra "Guaranteed" Squares (7" and 5").

One way to get up a stable of clamps is to wait for sales by Amazon (look for cheap sets of K-bodies and Bessey bar clamps) or Woodpeckers (http://www.woodpeck.com/) get on their e-list and buy 4 or 6 at a time. The K-bodies and similar are indispensible IMO. Tools for Working Wood (Gramercy) is having a special on some great looking aluminum clamps right now BTW. Rockler's pipe clamps (that sit tall) are nice for panel glue ups too.

[Bruce Haugen]

don't do what I did: A few years ago, in one of the stupidest moments of my life, I announced to my wife that I had pretty much all the tools I needed. You can imagine how many times that statement has come back to haunt me. I think she's going to do it in needlepoint and hang it on the wall.

Unless you have Blue Spruce chisels, everything sold by Lee Valley, etc., something you need will need upgrading, and some project will need a tool you don't have now.

For the time being, just build stuff. Figure out how to do the job with what you have, and if you can't then get the next tool. It's what we all do.

Just don't, for the love of God, repeat my mistake :eek:

Bruce

[Jacob Mac]

I'm building a Roubo right now, and I'd suggest that you don't need the rabbet block plane or the dt saw to build your Roubo.You might, however, benefit from making your own drawbore pins if that method of joinery appeals to you.And it certainly comes in handy on the Roubo.

I also think you will really like having a mortise chisel. The Roubo has ridiculously large mortises, and chiseling them out is a pain with bench chisels (trust me). I ended up resorting to a spade bit for much of the work.

Either way though, good luck and enjoy your new bench and new tools.










I think in this order,
veritas dt saw (thanks for pointing it out Gary)
bu jointer -to finish the set and use on my new benchtop (when it gets done)
LN rabbet block plane- for tennon faces- I prefer chisels for the shoulders (so far )
chisels though I haven't decided which yet. At least 1 ea mortise and dt as well as a set of bench chisels
A lot more clamps

These are ones I can think of that I'll need to build my workbench. After that who knows.

[jim hedgpeth]

Jim, I'm with you on the clamps, always looking. LV has the best price I've found on bessey H pipe clamps, as long as you buy 4 or more. If bought with over $120 other stuff it doesn't even cost extra to ship....:D, maybe with my bu jointer they are holding for me.(must have forgot to ship it this time)LOL

I do have several squares, a coupe combination squares awls an exacto knife for marking. I know it's not as pretty as the BS like Sean's, but it will do for now. I also have the straight edge, only aluminum, but again it works for now. Some of my tools (I have more than I thought, once I try to list them) are ok for now but want to be replaced with better ones. Like my tablesaw last year, it kept threatening to launch the blade (waaay bad bearings), so my wife "talked " me into a new one. Most of my tools till a couple years ago are from remodeling my house, a project of galactic proportions I sometimes regret. The price was right before I fixed........well you know. Now I wonder. Anyway, if it has to do with remodeling, there is a good chance I have it.

Jacob, the dovetail saw is (was, will be, maybe) actualy for the drawers in my computer desk, if I get it soon enough. Doubtful, but... I am surprised you don't think the rabbet block would be usefull on the tennon faces of the Rubio though. Do they just not need fitted that close do to the size?
My dad and I are talking about makeing drawbore pins, he has some steel dowels and can shape the offset, I just have to figure out handles.
The chisels will probably all be purchased at the same time, bench, and 2 mortise.

By the way Jacob, useing a spade bit was WRONG. Chris S. used fostner bits on the one in Workbenches.;) But I would have used a spade too.

Jim

[Jacob Mac]

The rabbet plane could be useful, but you can get by with chisels. But, my bench isn't exactly a work of art, so take my advice at your own risk. A few of my mortises have some shims in them. But hopefully the drawboring will preserve the integrity of the joint.

And ya the spade bit isn't a faithful rendering of Schwarz's procedure, but this bench is costing me a fortune, and I just didn't want to shell out another $20 for a forstner bit.

Incidentally, here is an article from Schwarz on how to make your own draw bore pins. I followed the advice, and made myself serviceable pins.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/drawBoring/drawBoring4.asp






Jim, I'm with you on the clamps, always looking. LV has the best price I've found on bessey H pipe clamps, as long as you buy 4 or more. If bought with over $120 other stuff it doesn't even cost extra to ship....:D, maybe with my bu jointer they are holding for me.(must have forgot to ship it this time)LOL

I do have several squares, a coupe combination squares awls an exacto knife for marking. I know it's not as pretty as the BS like Sean's, but it will do for now. I also have the straight edge, only aluminum, but again it works for now. Some of my tools (I have more than I thought, once I try to list them) are ok for now but want to be replaced with better ones. Like my tablesaw last year, it kept threatening to launch the blade (waaay bad bearings), so my wife "talked " me into a new one. Most of my tools till a couple years ago are from remodeling my house, a project of galactic proportions I sometimes regret. The price was right before I fixed........well you know. Now I wonder. Anyway, if it has to do with remodeling, there is a good chance I have it.

Jacob, the dovetail saw is (was, will be, maybe) actualy for the drawers in my computer desk, if I get it soon enough. Doubtful, but... I am surprised you don't think the rabbet block would be usefull on the tennon faces of the Rubio though. Do they just not need fitted that close do to the size?
My dad and I are talking about makeing drawbore pins, he has some steel dowels and can shape the offset, I just have to figure out handles.
The chisels will probably all be purchased at the same time, bench, and 2 mortise.

By the way Jacob, useing a spade bit was WRONG. Chris S. used fostner bits on the one in Workbenches.;) But I would have used a spade too.

Jim

[jim hedgpeth]

Thanks for the link, he don't worry about the offset like some I have seen. That is nice the way he heats the handles and drives them on. The steel I we have is round though, but for $6 I'll look at Sears.

I agree about buying the bit, but was more worried about how it would do in a hand drill as opposed to a drill press (that I don't have yet). I'm rather fond of my wrists, if you know what I mean. A spade can be "fun" enough at times.

Jim