Disston float ?

[Paul Saffold]

I picked this up at a flea market last week. Thought I was getting a float.
It cleaned up nicely after 36 hours in a citric acid bath. One side says "Disston USA" in their keystone. On the other side has "FLAT BABBIT".
It is 12" X 1 1/8" X 1/4".

The only info about Disston that I can find is about handsaws.

Anyone have any ideas about it?

Paul

[David Keller NC]

During later years, Disston made a lot of other tools. A couple of examples are machinist's and woodworker's squares and sets of turning tools. I've never seen one like you've found. "Babbit" is a mixture of low-melting metals that was used as pourable bearings before the manufacturing of ball bearings became much less expensive, and the metals used for them became good enough that they would stand up to linear shocks (instead of just radial ones). I'm not sure how that's related to the tool you have.

Interesting find.

[Bill Houghton]

On the other side has "FLAT BABBIT."

Speculating here, but the tooth pattern is very similar to one used for filing aluminum, another soft metal - it would not surprise me to find that Disston made files specifically for babbit.

I have a similar tool, by Nicholson, which I have found marginally useful for filing wood - rasps are far more effective.

And to concur: Disston made all kinds of tools, or at least put their logo on them*. I own a Disston level and a Disston marking gauge, as well as a Disston pruning saw.

*I don't know if Disston made all their own tools. It's certainly true that the hardware stores (including Sears) most often contracted with one of the major makers of the particular tool type - plane, saw, etc. - to make tools and put the hardware store logo on it, a practice the British (who refer to the logo as a "badge") call badge engineering. It would not surprise me to hear that Disston did the same thing for at least some of their tools. The company history I found makes only vague references to "other tools" besides saws.

[Peter Evans]

Disston started making files quite early, during the Civil War from memory because they could not get files form England due to embargo. They made files/rasps for many years; not sure when they stopped, but was before WW2 from memory. I have a few Disston files/rasps - they were a large maker.

Cheers
Peter

[Joel Goodman]

+1 on the aluminum filing origin. Lee Valley sells the Nicholson version
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=56529&cat=1,42524

[george wilson]

The curved tooth file to have is the Nicholson SUPER SHEAR.I have several,but am not sure if they are still made. Back in the 80's they cost over $40.00. they cut like nothing else. the teeth are milled in an off center curve,and have notches every 1/8" across their width. they are entirely better than the lead floats pictured. Those floats chatter badly.the super shears cut like CRAZY,and with a little angle changing while filing,do not start chattering.

A few years ago,I found a Simmonds file copy of the super shear. Travers tool co. had it,so I bought 1. It was just fine,but still 440.00.I wish i'd bought more,but the cost builds right up. I don't know if Travers still sells them. I can't remember what the Simmonds version is called,but it is not super shear.

P.S. Do not buy the 10" version of the super shear. For some reason they are NEVER SHARP,and don't cut well. The larger ones are sharp as a tack,and are amazing cutters.

[Frank Drew]

The curved tooth file to have is the Nicholson SUPER SHEAR.I have several,but am not sure if they are still made.

http://www.nolansupply.com/bysubcategory.asp?category=Abrasives&supercategory=Files&subcategory=Nicholson+Miscellaneous+Tools+-+Super+Shear%26%23174%3B+Files%26nbsp%3B&type=False&specs=True

(Google is our friend :D.)

[george wilson]

I didn't think to google it. I haven't seen them in catalogs for years,and ASSUMED (wrongly!) that they were out of production. I wouldn't use the 2 smallest sizes.If you want a file that cuts fast as a rasp,but is going to leave a clean surface,try one.

I was hoping if I put this out there,someone would pop up with a good answer. Thanks!

[Eric Brown]

Based on your "voice of experience" I went ahead and ordered a Super Shear 14. I have no doubt that it will work as well as you say. Thank you.
(See, sometimes we listen!)

Eric

[george wilson]

You will not be disappointed. Change angles a bit when filing to keep chatter from building up. I do not like to use mine on metal because they are expensive,and a file with fewer teeth has fewer teeth to share the wear on them. I have used mine on metal,when in a real hurry,don't get me wrong. Sometimes time is money for me,or my old joints would rather save strokes. Normally,I save them for wood. If you must use them on metal,I'd only use them on brass,aluminum and lead,no steel.

Write up a post after you get yours,describing its performance.

[Bruce Haugen]

in some spectacularly large machines. The bearings in steam turbines used in power plants are mostly babbit. The tolerances they need are very, very tight. I suspect that's why it's used because they are poured in place, shafts are then removed and the oil lines traced in the metal.

Bruce

[Rick Whitehead]

As has been said, Disston made a huge variety of files and rasps. Here is an actual float made by them.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/knifmann/DSCF4188.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/knifmann/DSCF4186.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/knifmann/DSCF4187.jpg
It is a 10" and is marked"DISSTON(keystone)USA"and "FLAT/FLOAT CUT"
I got it somewhere locally. It wasn't very sharp when I got it, but after a bath in citric acid, it's nice and sharp.
I haven't used it much, just tested it out.
Rick W

[Tim Put]

they are entirely better than the lead floats pictured. Those floats chatter badly

Agreed. They may be great for aluminum, lead and babbit (I don't know, they may be), but they do not like wood.

I'm going to get some Iwasaki floats to try out, replacing my Nicholson.

[Jim Koepke]

As has been said, Disston made a huge variety of files and rasps. Here is an actual float made by them.

It is a 10" and is marked"DISSTON(keystone)USA"and "FLAT/FLOAT CUT"
I got it somewhere locally. It wasn't very sharp when I got it, but after a bath in citric acid, it's nice and sharp.
I haven't used it much, just tested it out.
Rick W

My recollection tells me a float can be sharpened with a three corner file. Not sure if it has to be heated to soften first then hardened afterwards.

jim

[george wilson]

A float hardened like a file isn't going to be sharpenable with a file. I have made several floats out of tool steel years ago,similar to the (LN?) floats,(or is it St.James Bay) floats that are now offered. They are different animals,though,and might be sharpened. At least,I made mine at a spring temper like a saw blade,and they could be sharpened. They are for plane making.

[Rick Whitehead]

My recollection tells me a float can be sharpened with a three corner file. Not sure if it has to be heated to soften first then hardened afterwards.

jim

I took a closer look at my float, and the teeth are too hard to file.They are also the wrong shape for a triangular file to sharpen them.
Rick

[Jim Koepke]

I took a closer look at my float, and the teeth are too hard to file.They are also the wrong shape for a triangular file to sharpen them.
Rick

That may have been something that came across my screen about making a float then. Sometimes, there is just too much stuff between the ears to be able to keep it all in.

jim

[David Keller NC]

I took a closer look at my float, and the teeth are too hard to file.They are also the wrong shape for a triangular file to sharpen them.
Rick

If it needs it, and you want to do it, you may be able to have that float sharpened by Boggs Machine - they use a "liquid abrasive" method. The Schwarz has reported that the Pop Woodworking staff think that the Boggs Machine sharpened rasps cut better than they did when new:

http://www.boggstool.com/

[Rick Whitehead]

If it needs it, and you want to do it, you may be able to have that float sharpened by Boggs Machine - they use a "liquid abrasive" method. The Schwarz has reported that the Pop Woodworking staff think that the Boggs Machine sharpened rasps cut better than they did when new:

http://www.boggstool.com/

I've had a LOT of files and rasps sharpened by Boggs, and I can HIGHLY recommend them. They do an amazing job, and it's amazing how sharp they can get them.
This time, however, I had only a few files in addition to this one, so I didn't think it was worth it to send it to Boggs. Instead, I wanted to try using citric acid to sharpen them. It worked, and while they're probably not as sharp as Boggs could get them, they're still very sharp.
Rick W

[george wilson]

What are the costs of getting Boggs to resharpen files?

I have done some files by electric stripping. I used a mixture of sulphuric and nitric acids IIRC,for the best results. These were only small files,though.

There can be problems with hydrogen embrittlement. Any trouble with cutting edges failing by tiny amounts breaking off?