Okay - I have to ask...

[Todd Carpenter]

I'm probably going to go down in flames for this, but here goes... :o

I've been reading almost everybody hates polyurethane, in almost any cantation, but I haven't been able to figure out why. Most discussions recommend not using it - but go on to say "...the reasons why are a whole different discussion..."

So flame away - how come very few people like this stuff?

Thanks
Todd

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Todd,

I use it. I usually thin it down with mineral spirits and use it as a wiping poly. It seems to dry quicker that way...I have less trouble with dust nibs that way....

It really depends on what I'm finishing as to what I use for a finish.

[Brian Kent]

I use it and like it. I took a good recommendation not to use it on a coffee table that needs to be as strong a surface as possible. I am using Waterlox varnish on that one.

On a side table that I use and abuse regularly I added mineral spirits to Oil-based poly and put on many wipe-on coats, followed by wax. Even though the poly and the wax are softer than some possibilities, the table is beautiful and has no scratches at all.

[Steve Clardy]

I seldom use it.

But when I do it is on bath cabinets. Water base poly

[Neal Clayton]

I'm probably going to go down in flames for this, but here goes... :o

I've been reading almost everybody hates polyurethane, in almost any cantation, but I haven't been able to figure out why. Most discussions recommend not using it - but go on to say "...the reasons why are a whole different discussion..."

So flame away - how come very few people like this stuff?

Thanks
Todd

for me, because it has a distinct and undesirable appearance.

a wood finish should highlight the appearance of the wood, not hide it under a layer of plastic.

[Kenneth Hertzog]

I use it straight from the can with no problems :D

ken

[Scott Holmes]

Water-borne poly is not poly, it is acrylic and it is not nearly as durable or desirable for a humid bathroom. A Phenolic resin/tung oil varnish is far superior at blocking water and water vapor than other varnishes; it will blow away the acrylics in bathroom or kitchen environments

AS for the OP's question about poly...
It doesn't stick very well to itself or anything else, that's why directions tell you to sand between coats. It sticks well to bare wood. Other varnishes (poly is a type of varnish) don't have this trait (flaw). Urethane resins are cloudy compaired to phenolic or alkyd resins. I don't buy into the "plastic argument"; phenolic, alkyd and urethane are all plastics. The clarity of the finish is evident.

IMHO Poly is for floors. I did use it many years ago on an oak toybox for my 4 sons; floor finish seemed appropriate since they WOULD be walking on it with shoes on their little feet.

[Todd Burch]

It has its places, and I have used it quite a bit over the years.

I would never use it (and have never used it) on fine furniture to enhance the look. As a previous poster mentioned, it looks (and feels) like plastic.

Poly is the "ultimate protective" finish. Most of the time, I do not need the ultimate in protection.

For outdoor use, poly sucks and runs into adhesion problems and flakes off. The only thing worse looking than unfinished outdoor furniture made with the wrong wood, is that same furniture with poly on it that has sat through 3-4 seasons of weather - you get flaking and black mold underneath it (in these parts).

Therefore, poly is never my first choice in finishes where look or feel or outdoor use are concerned.

Todd

[Jim Becker]

It has its places, and I have used it quite a bit over the years.

I would never use it (and have never used it) on fine furniture to enhance the look. As a previous poster mentioned, it looks (and feels) like plastic.

Agree. Polyurethane varnish often tends to have less clarity which means to many people, it has a "more plastic" look than other varnishes. That's likely due to some property of the polyurethane resins used in the formula to make it. It has poor adhesion, both to itself and to certain other finishes. It also doesn't buff or polish nearly as well as other varnishes: one of the primary reasons for it's existence is abrasion resistance and buffing/polishing are abrasion.

As someone else already mentioned, the water borne "poly" products are a totally different finish. They are acrylics that just have a little polyurethane resin added during manufacture to supposedly add durability. But they do not perform the same as the oil based polyurethane products in most cases.

Unfortunately, polyurethane has become the "mass market darling". Folks even use "poly" as a verb. Drives me nuts! Trying to find an alternative varnish a the big box stores is often a fruitless venture. Fortunately, there are real paint stores still out there!


Poly is the "ultimate protective" finish. Most of the time, I do not need the ultimate in protection.

Here I have to disagree. It's neither the most durable nor the most "protective" finish. It's not "ultimate" in any way. It simply was developed to have a higher abrasion resistance than other oil-based varnishes, primarily for floor use. In fact, it's totally failed on my kitchen table and will be replaced with a higher quality water borne product when I finally have the time to do so. Sadly, that's the only furniture project I've done since I started woodworking that I actually used poly. Go figure... :rolleyes:

[Todd Carpenter]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I've been using water based poly and Polycrylic for a while with decent results, but I have to go along with the plasticy feel and look I've been getting. The stuff just doesn't seem to get that hard refined look of fine furniture. I do like the convience and ease of clean up of the water based polys, so I guess it's time to switch to Jim's favorite water based lacquer...

Thanks again all!

[Matt Meiser]

I've had really good luck with wipe-on poly. None of the adhesion problems, failures, etc. mentioned above. In fact, I don't always even sand between the first and second coats. Maybe the Minwax Wipe-On poly is more of a traditional varnish than a poly? And maybe I'm not putting it on as thick? I usually wipe 3-4 coats then finish the next day by waxing with 0000 steel wool as an applicator to get any dust nibs and leave a silky smooth finish and I don't think it looks much different than the projects I've sprayed with USL. I hate brush on poly which I've used on some flooring transition strips. Its too thick and gooey.

But I like spraying USL better and have been working towards doing that more. The main reason is completion time--a few hours to do 3 coats vs. about 1-1/2 days. But I also like the speed of application and the cleanup. The downside is grain raising and the fact that adding coloring is more difficult. I tried a water-based stain I bought at Woodcraft and it was terrible. Next time I'll try dyes.

I've also used the Polycrylic on some bathroom cabinetry projects based on Steve's recommendation. I've gotten good results with it.

[Todd Carpenter]

Matt,

thanks for the reply - what's USL?

[Matt Meiser]

Target USL, which has been replaced by EM6000 so I guess I should start saying that.

[Todd Carpenter]

Ahh. I'm a little late to the target products - I knew the EM6000 but not the USL - thanks!

[Todd Carpenter]

Just an update I had to share especially for those who feel poly looks too plastic-like. I had a piece sitting in the garage finished with poly and it had cured for 30+ days so I had just finished the finish. My ten-year old was banging around in the garage with me so I asked her what she thought - she said "It's really cool - it looks like plastic!"

I'm thinking about stripping it!

Cheers
Todd

[Prashun Patel]

IMHO, the difference becomes more apparent on finishes that are built to be deep.

I've recently discovered the Maloof finish (oil + poly). Coincidentally I saw a piece from a guy around here that makes fantastic furniture with thinned down wiping poly. Their technique is to apply/saturate, and then wipe it all off. It takes many steps, but the surface ends up like silk with no build whatsoever. It's my fave finish as of now....