Stop-cut with cope and stick bits

[John Loftis]

Howdy folks. Finally mustered the courage to start using my cope and stick bits and need some help. On the end panels of my TV stand, my plan was to have the stiles extend beyond the bottom rail and serve as feet for the unit.

How do you do a 'stop cut' so that the bottom rail and stiles meet up cleanly without having exposed sticking? I would think that since the router bit cuts in a circle, the leading edge of the bit would cut out a curve proud of the rail.

Any thoughts?

John

[doug faist]

John - not the most innovative solution, but I would think that you could just use a different joint for the bottom cross piece. How about a fairly simple mortise and tenon?

Again, not real sexy, but strong, easy to cut and much simpler than making a stopped cut with that bit.

Doug

[John Loftis]

Good thought, Doug. Unfortunately, the rails are already cut to length. A friend suggested that I cut the sticking on the stiles all the way to the bottom, then cope a grain-matched piece over the exposed sticking.

If I can find some grain matched pieces, that's what I'll try to do.

Best,
John

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi John, stop the sticking profile just short of where you want to end it, and complete it with a chisel and gouge.

Regards, Rod.

[Quinn McCarthy]

You can put the panel together and then cut the profile off the styles below the botton rail.

Quinn

[Bob Carreiro]

One way is to stop the routings short on BOTH rail & style ops.

1) Stop short of passing the rail's cope to the lower, concaved edge so the bit doesn't cut into the corner. Hand saw (or miter cut on TS) the unused "waste" so what would have been removed by the router, will butt-fit from the rails "revealled" edge, to the stile's edge.

2) Likewise, stop short on the style's morrored profiling, so the area below of the (to be) insertd rail ends, as it extends to the floor. This way, the (surface) revealled joint line will extend as the leg's edge down to the floor.

This may be "as clear as mud", but I hope it helps anyway!
Bob

[Alan Schwabacher]

To make it match the image, I agree that cutting off the profile below the joint would do it. If you really want the legs wider, I vote for joining a piece with a complementary profile.

[John Loftis]

One way is to stop the routings short on BOTH rail & style ops.

1) Stop short of passing the rail's cope to the lower, concaved edge so the bit doesn't cut into the corner. Hand saw (or miter cut on TS) the unused "waste" so what would have been removed by the router, will butt-fit from the rails "revealled" edge, to the stile's edge.

2) Likewise, stop short on the style's morrored profiling, so the area below of the (to be) insertd rail ends, as it extends to the floor. This way, the (surface) revealled joint line will extend as the leg's edge down to the floor.

This may be "as clear as mud", but I hope it helps anyway!
Bob

Tried to visualize this. For clarity, I've got the whiteside bead profile, which has a 3/8" profile and a 1/4" slot. Couldn't figure out why you wouldn't through-cut the rail, since you would just cut off bottom part of the coping. Seems like cutting all the way on the rail would give you a visual guide for how deep to cut with the handsaw.

Did I get the gist of your suggestion in the diagram?

Folks, would this work?

John

[Peter Quinn]

John, for stain grade work I would do just what your picture depicts. Just imagine the thing is a regular M&T joint with a tiny tenon and proceed accordingly. Remember to cut the shoulder on the rail deep enough to accommodate the arc that the router bit will make on the stopped stile cut.

For a paint grade unit I would simply run the stiles continuous and glue in a coped piece, but this is rather hard to hide on stain grade work. Remember to make that shoulder cut on the rails before you form your arch. Its exact height is not important except as a locator as it will all be hidden. You could chop the stopped groove in the stile square for strength with a chisel if that suits you.

I though about that some more and what I said doesn't work as far as I can tell. The stop cut on the stile will terminate in an arc with a radius of your router bit and will not leave a nice square place for that rail to land. And typically you want the "flats" to line up, or the foot must follow the line of the flat on the sticking, not the inside edge of the molding. You can solve the flat problem by ripping material off of the stile with a stop cut that you clean off by hand, and you would need to make the cut on the rail 1/8" in from the bottom of its tongue. Rember, the tongue typically extends 1/8" past the molding profile. In other words, its a bit more involved. O recommend making a test piece from scrap, doesn't even have to be the same thickness exactly, just something to represent a rail and stile, and keep wacking it up until it does what you need and helps visualize the final product.

[Bob Carreiro]

Yes, you did get it, john. And you're right... I goofed on the stopping short on the rail cut. Yes, by all means, cut the profile through the rail's width and cut a shoulder up from the concaved edge into the profile (as with a tenon) wide enough to acheive full engagement into the the full depth of cut in the style (i.e., before it arcs to flush). Sorry for the mistake.

I hope your project wins your personal kudos. I rarely am satisfied with my own. All I see is the mistake cover-ups, the less than perfect joint, poor wood choices or mismatches, design flaws or what-have-you! But even with all my imperfections, I just can't stay away!

Just wondering... since you understood my two cents, and seemed to have known it anyway(?), why did you ask how this could be done? I'm new at SMC (and forums in general) and wonder why some seemingly experienced woodworker would ask an otherwise elementary question.

regards,
Bob

[Peter Quinn]

Sorry to keep replying but I love this puzzle, and I think I may have a solution. Make a stopped sticking cut, rip the bottom of the rails using a stopped cut to the desired point, run the cope continuous, glue a piece of sticking to the bottom 1/2" of the cope cut, then cut this off flush with the edges of the cope at the face of each rail. This will hide the otherwise little gaps formed by the cope and be VERY HARD to see post assembly so grain match doesn't matter.

If you line every thing up right I think it is possible to do this simply without doing any wood carving. Does this make any sense to anybody except me?

[John Loftis]

I tried it out on some scrap wood and I've decided to use the K.I.S.S. formula and run the sticking all the way down and do some grain matching with a complementary piece. Feet will be a touch wider, but shouldn't be the end of the world. Trying to mate up these pieces cleanly is more spatial geometry than my pea-brain can handle. Cutting a simple haunch (like in the sketchup diagram) won't work, again because of the arcs.

The final deal-breaker was when I noticed that the arc of the sticking and the art on the coping don't match up, which means I'd have to either do a plunge cut in the router table or a climb cut on one of the pieces. So I waved the white flag.



Just wondering... since you understood my two cents, and seemed to have known it anyway(?), why did you ask how this could be done? I'm new at SMC (and forums in general) and wonder why some seemingly experienced woodworker would ask an otherwise elementary question.


Bob, as an adult (?), this is my fourth woodworking project (bookshelves, butcher block, toy box). Appreciate the implied compliment, but I'm at the stage where I don't even know what I don't know. I'm definitely pushing it on this project, lots and lots of firsts for me. I'll start a build thread on the projects forum in a day or two. Should provide some comedic relief for the truly experienced woodworkers out there.

John