Belt Sander for Chisel/Plane Iron Sharpening?

[Jacob Reverb]

Hey, all, I did a search but didn't come up with a lot that addressed my questions.

I'm slowly getting into more hand tool woodworking (using hand planes for scarfing plywood; messing with drawknives and spokeshaves, also some woodcarving) and have an increasing need to sharpen fairly frequently, and often remove nicks in edges or flatten stuff ... but I can't wrap my Neander head around spending the $$$$ for a Tormek and all the jig$$$ you need to use it, so I was considering getting a decent belt/disk sander like the Jet JSG-960S (http://woodworking.jettools.com/Products.aspx?Part=708596K).

That way, I figure the machine could be used for woodworking, and if I weld up a few jigs, I could also use it for sharpening ... and it would also be useful for metalworking.

Do many of you use stationary belt sanders in this way, and what are the pros and cons in your experience?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Check Derek Cohen's web site, inthewoodshop.com. I believe he has an article on using a belt sander for sharpening.

[Brian Kent]

Yes, I do that on a regular basis, to form the initial angle and to straighten edges or get a curve. I use mine very often for woodworking too. I use the same size Grizzly with quick belt change so I can use coarse belts for shaping and go through the grits for fine sanding small surfaces. Excellent for boxes and big inside curves.

[Ken Whitney]

Jacob,

As mentioned, Derek's site is very helpful. I've just started using a belt sander to grind primary bevels on chisels and plane irons, and I like the results very much.

Of course you end up with a flat primary bevel, so you don't have the two points of contact you get with a hollow-ground tool. I use a honing jig, so this isn't a problem, but flat grinding makes hand honing harder.

Ken

[Brian Kent]

When I am doing major work I set the angle on the sander, then switch over to the grinder. I can test the accuracy of the grinding jig by making sure the concave area is in the middle of the flat bevel.

[Richard Dooling]

Are you all using a particular brand/type of belt? Even the better belts I have, have a slight bump at the seam. I've been wondering about using this setup for flattening the backs of plane blades.

.

[george wilson]

The belts that do not have a bump are those that have a thin mylar tape across the back of the butted belts. How they hang on is a miracle!! I use my Wilton square wheel grinder all the time for grinding irons,etc. The belts carry heat away better than a dry wheel. I use the blue zirconia belts. They cost a bit more,but are much better than brown ALO belts.

[David Keller NC]

Jacob - Belt grinders are very common and very popular with turners, you might consider mirroring this post in the turner's forum to get some feedback.

Looking at the Jet unit that you referred to, I've an alternate suggestion - Jet makes a unit specifically made for metal working that at least looks very, very similar to the expensive Sorby Pro-Edge belt sharpener/shaper:

http://industrial.jettools.com/Products.aspx?Part=577004&cat=3366970

One of the reasons that I suggest this as an alternative is my experience using my Delta sanding center to work metal. It works OK with the proper belts, but it definitely has some detractions. One is that the platen under the belt is somewhat soft - presumably to avoid putting in a harsh crease on a piece of wood being worked on it. That means that using it to flatten the back of a piece of metal is problematic - you can rough it in, but you have to go to stones to get the back truly flat.

The other problem is more serious. All of the guards on the Delta are made of a form of engineering plastic. Sparks from certain types of metal can embed themselves in this plastic and start smoldering. In fact, a I burned a hole in the guard before I realized the problem and removed it. So now it's used without guards, and that's not something I'm comfortable with on a long-term basis.

[Brian Kent]

Are you all using a particular brand/type of belt? Even the better belts I have, have a slight bump at the seam. I've been wondering about using this setup for flattening the backs of plane blades.

.

Here was the response when I had this question:
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=94089&highlight=sanding+belts

The 3M belts were far superior, and there are suggestions here I have not yet tried.

Brian

[Jacob Reverb]

Thank you for all the great replies and pointers to other info. I appreciate it.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Jacob

In case you could not find these articles on my website:

Mark 1: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/BeltSanderGrinderMkI.html

Mark 2: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/BeltSanderBladeGrinderMK%20II.html

Mark 2 set up with Zirconia belt ... and close up of jig (on wooden spacer)

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/BeltSanderBladeGrinderMK%20II_html_m1453b9d5.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Petsche]

great links for ideas on using the belt sander, thanks.

[Scott T Smith]

I've used belt sanders for sharpening for over 30 years. I prefer the combo machine with a course belt on the 6 x 48 and fine paper on the 12" disk. I've found that the slower speed (1725 rpm) metal working models will not overheat the metal as easily as the faster speed (3450 rpm) models.

Klingspor makes some great belts and sanding discs.

[steven c newman]

Could've sworn I replied to this awhile back, hmmmm?

Anyway, I have two very different styles of beltsanders I use, A 3x21 B&D Dragster model: Platten does not bend or even move. I can also come in from the side of the sander, lay a part flat onto the belt as it goes by.

a 1x30 three wheeled sander: Platten is about useless, I can however polish a back and/or bevel very precisely by tilting the table.

On both of these sanders, I use my fingertips to "control" any heat build up. Too hot for the fingertip? Stop, pull away from the belt, and cool the item off. Usually have a cup of water nearby. On the Dragster Sander, I use a Veritas Mk1 honing guide.
Both sanders are for getting the item ready for a trip on paper spread out of a piece of floor tile,12 x12. Goes from 150 grit up to 2500 Wet&dry.

Neither is an end all, but part of a series of steps. There is a regular grinder, with a jig on one wheel, for those in need of grinding bad edges back to good ones. Only if needed.

Note: Dragster usually has a worn 120 or 80 grit belt onboard, or handy. I do not use a new belt for sharpening.

[allen long]

So how do you all like the flat grind vs. the hollow grind? I have found the hollow grind tends to slice through wood easier - especially spongy wood flavors. Although, I don't pound on them with a heavy mallet.

When I first got my LN chisels I worked hard to maintain the flat grind. A friend of mine and I attended a three-day woodworking class together. He had Ashley Isles and I had the LN. His chisels seemed to work much better on the red alder that I had bought for the class project (it was labeled by the Woodsmith Store as Maple - it wasn't and did not work like maple). I ordered some vintage chisels to restore and found the cast steel to cut much better. For some time I did not use the LN (even though I think they are a work of art and feel the best in my hands over everything.) It finally dawned on me it might be the grind. I hollow ground them on an 8-inch slow grinder and wow! What a difference the hollow grind made - to me anyway.

[Daniel Rode]

I used a flat grind up until very recently. Now I use a hollow grind. I find no difference at all in the way chisels or irons cut. I would not expect to find any difference. The actual cutting edge is identical.


So how do you all like the flat grind vs. the hollow grind? I have found the hollow grind tends to slice through wood easier - especially spongy wood flavors. Although, I don't pound on them with a heavy mallet.

[Jim Koepke]

So how do you all like the flat grind vs. the hollow grind? I have found the hollow grind tends to slice through wood easier - especially spongy wood flavors.

I find the angle of the bevel, the angle of attack and the sharpness of the edge is what makes the real difference.

Even the opposite of a hollow grind, the convex bevel, is advocated by some and seems to work for them.

It may be you came upon a sharpening epiphany during the class and didn't realize it.

Only a few of my tools retain much of the hollow grind they had when they came to me. One in particular has only about 1/8" of the hollow left on a quickly turning flat, long bevel.

Don't get me wrong, a hollow ground bevel is a great help in picking up the skills of hand sharpening. That in itself may have improved your sharpening skill.

jtk