unbalanced wood problem please help

[curtis rosche]

i was at a local woodturners house yesterday, got to play on his lathe and use some of his wood. he let me take home some spaulted box elder. it looks really nice. but there is a problem. the peice i put on my lathe is off balance. it appears that half of the blank is spaulted and slightly punky and that the other half isnt. the peice is completly round and it makes my workbench wobble. how would i got about making it balanced so that i can make a hollowform out of it? i was thinking maybe a pipe clamp or two and the side that has the tighening mechinism would go overtop of the soft side of the blank. any better ideas?

[Gary Conklin]

You are going to kill yourself if you do anything like that!!! You really need to slow your lathe way down and turn it as is, or not turn it at all. Pipe clamps on a spinning piece of wood sounds to me like a potential frigging canonball. Wish you would use some more #1 shop safety- common sense. Frankly some of your posts scare the heck out of me.:eek::eek:

[Steve Schlumpf]

Curtis - I have to agree with Gary - some of your posts scare the heck out of me.:eek::eek:

Of all the things we cover on this site - SAFETY - is the one common element that everyone stresses!

I also agree that you have to run your lathe at a slow speed to eliminate as much vibration as possible. If you are still not able to turn it - throw the wood away or use it as a doorstop! - it is not worth getting injured over!

[curtis rosche]

i did have it on the slowest speed. oh well

[alex carey]

Turn it on his lathe.

[curtis rosche]

that might work

[Chris Hayes]

The only thing that I can offer that hasn't been said (ie no pipe clamps and slow it down) is the wood density could be playing with _your_ sense of balance. Some of the black and white ebony pen blanks I've done have completely tossed me because the wood hits the tool with a different sound. Not to say that your piece isn't out of balance, but once you start getting it round and it sounds like it is, it may be your head doing the balance trick (I know the box of Kelloggs between my ears does that all the time to me).

As for dealing with the punky wood -- have you tried shoring it up with some CA glue?

Chris

[curtis rosche]

glue!, thats what i forgot to try.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Curtis get the pipe clamps out of your head. How slow does your lathe go? I turn mine when I have that problem down to about 100 to 200 rpm at the most. Once I have got the outside rounded I mix up a bunch of epoxy then mix in DNA till it is the consistancy of milk. I paint this on the punky wood till it won't take anymore and let it dry overnight. I then finish the outside, turn it around and hollow it. Once I get it close to finish thickness that I want, I do the same thing with epoxy/DNA on the inside. Let it dry overnight then finish. Most of the time when using this mixture I finish with wipe on poly.

[curtis rosche]

the slowest speed on my lathe is about 600rpm. maybe a little higher.

http://www.turbochargers.com/store/images/Hose_Clamp.jpgthis is the type of clamp i was thinking of. how could they come off?

[Christopher Fletcher]

Curtis get the pipe clamps out of your head. How slow does your lathe go? I turn mine when I have that problem down to about 100 to 200 rpm at the most. Once I have got the outside rounded I mix up a bunch of epoxy then mix in DNA till it is the consistancy of milk. I paint this on the punky wood till it won't take anymore and let it dry overnight. I then finish the outside, turn it around and hollow it. Once I get it close to finish thickness that I want, I do the same thing with epoxy/DNA on the inside. Let it dry overnight then finish. Most of the time when using this mixture I finish with wipe on poly.

Not to hijack:

Bernie,
The next time you come across a piece that you turn in this fashion, can you do a photo write-up of the process? I am interested in the process but cannot "visualize" it as described.

Is the epoxy/dna an additional step before final turning, or is it a stabilizer done after final turning but before the finish is applied?

[Christopher Fletcher]

this is the type of clamp i was thinking of. how could they come off?


This is what I thought of when I read pipe clamp:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/pipe-clamp-storage-ideas2.jpg

Your picture is of a "hose" clamp. Still a projectile to come flying off and not a great idea...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Christopher....the epoxy/dna minture...often called an epoxy cocktail....is used to harden the spalted wood that has gone soft/puncky. You put the expoxy mixture on and then after it dries overnight...turn it. It acts as a hardener.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Curtis....even those type of "hose clamps" will make it out of ballance. That little screw drive mechanism will make it heavier on one side and that has a big effect when spinning.

[curtis rosche]

KEN that is the point. the screw mechinism will go on the soft side of the wood. making the light side heavier. making it balanced.

[Ken Glass]

Curtis,
Let me quote you from 6-25-09. " I can now use the Lathe again, the bone has reattached enough to be able to work." I think anything you attach to the blank has the potential to become loose and fly off the blank as you work it down to a balanced shape. Do you really want to take the chance? I hope your answer is a resounding NO!

[Steve Kubien]

Either get some time on a slower lathe or seal this wood and store it until you have such a lathe yourself. Adding metal bits to spinning wood? That cannot be recommended but hey, it's your life.

[Nathan Hawkes]

To be fair to Curtis, I have seen a few turners that will add weight on one side to balance a turning. However, this was to a giant faceplate--think Alain Mailland. The clips I saw, and pictures, showed a very well secured piece on a HUGE lathe--probably industrial metalworking lathe. The piece was balanced not to keep the machine from shaking, but the turning itself.

I do agree that this particular piece of wood is probably a no-no for your lathe. I might try the wood hardener solutions, but that isn't going to add a lot of mass to the spalted side. You'd have to add a serious amount to account for the loss of mass in the spalted/punky areas.

Even a solid piece of wood without any punky or spalted areas has the potential to be very unbalanced, due to grain irregularities that result in denser pockets of wood in some areas than in others. Think tension & reaction woods around a bend in a limb, or in a burl for that matter. I've turned pieces that were highly burled on one side and plain wood on the other, which were perfectly evenly round, and didn't vibrate on the 3520B, but when allowed to spin freely without the motor running, the piece would stop burl side down--the burl was denser than the rest of the piece. This might be hard to demonstrate on your lathe, but you get the idea.

Curtis, I have to admit that I sometimes do things that I later consider not very smart, but I'm always thinking about how I can do something differently to make it safer. That lathe of yours was meant for turning spindles, not big bowls & hollow forms. I had a similar Delta/Rockwell that I too pushed to the limit before getting the PM. BE SAFE!!! If its shaking, seal it and put it under your bench or in the corner for sometime in the future. Good turning wood will keep coming along for you. Don't fear this. Really. Don't let a pretty piece of wood let you do something that you'll regret later.

There are reducing pulley setups called jack shafts that allow you to lower the speed to the spindle. Do a google search & check it out. This might be something you should check out.

[Christopher Fletcher]

Christopher....the epoxy/dna minture...often called an epoxy cocktail....is used to harden the spalted wood that has gone soft/puncky. You put the expoxy mixture on and then after it dries overnight...turn it. It acts as a hardener.

Ah, thanks Ken. That is more or less what I figured. I, of course, over complicated the procedure in my mind. I'll have to try that on some of the spalted wood I have. What type od epoxy are you using? The premixed stuff or the type that you mix to use?

[Jarrod McGehee]

Chris I'd probably use some of the West System stuff. It's expensive but that's woodworking for you :D But on a serious note, it's some of the better or best stuff commercially available.

[Jeff Nicol]

Curtis, I have chewed you out before for being a little bit radical, to say the least with your ideas and the solutions you come up with! When you ask questions we give you answers that are thought out, learned and tried over time. Any wood that has knots, figure, voids, soft spots etc. will act differently when they spin past the tool. Another thing sometimes if a piece was started on one lathe with a different chuck or whatever, when you put it on a new chuck/lathe it may run differently and will be out of round. Also the piece will dry at different rates and that will cause the wobble too. If the wood is soft enough that the steady rest wheels sink into it, turn some better wood as it may not be worth saving.

So stabilize the soft spot, make sure it is trued up between centers then bring the steady in to place and you should be O.K.

And like was said already, use some common sense, step back and think of what makes sense and what does not. I have not been responding to your posts because like they said "YOU SCARE THE HECK OUT UF US"!!!! Slow down and learn things slowly, can't do it all in a day.

Be safe, or should I say "MUCH SAFER",

Jeff

[robert hainstock]

KEN that is the point. the screw mechinism will go on the soft side of the wood. making the light side heavier. making it balanced.

Look down at your hands. THINK!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Bob

[curtis rosche]

ok ok. i will set this peice aside for a much later date, like when the whole thing is spaulted and balanced. or i have a bigger lathe. thanks for the input. with out your input i wouldve just gone with the clamp and hoped for the best. thanks

[Harvey Mushman]

KEN that is the point. the screw mechinism will go on the soft side of the wood. making the light side heavier. making it balanced.

Curtis....You are a walkin', talkin' disaster about to happen! I remember cautioning you over several safety concerns over the past 6 months or so. You don't seem to get it......Already you have been badly cut on a bandsaw and with this dangerous idea, I suggest that you look into video games as a new hobby. They are far less dangerous....considering your lack of common sense.....I really can't afford to send flowers to your family!

Please be safe....Use your head and pay attention in physics class.

[Brian George]

Curtis, Keep asking those questions and learning from those that have gone before you. And, remember, the ONLY stupid question is the one that does not get asked!!!
Enjoy...

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ah, thanks Ken. That is more or less what I figured. I, of course, over complicated the procedure in my mind. I'll have to try that on some of the spalted wood I have. What type od epoxy are you using? The premixed stuff or the type that you mix to use?

Sorry I have been on the road. I just use the cheap Wal-Mart two tube epoxy. I have been using that mixture for 3 yrs now on punky wood with good results.

Check this out. I used it on this bowl.

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=116551&highlight=Spalted+Maple+Bowl

[Curt Fuller]

Curtis, before you go clamping a hose clamp around that piece of wood, picture in your mind the size of divot that it will take out of your hand if you were to slip for any reason and catch you hand at 600 rpms. Better yet, mulitply that image by the number of times it comes around before your reflexes kick in a try to pull you hand away. Take that piece of wood off you lathe and throw it in the trash. Wood grows on trees and none of it it worth injuring yourself over. I gotta say that's one of the most dangerous ideas I've heard.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Curtis - you can see by all the comments that folks here are genuinely concerned with your safety. As I mentioned - sometimes some of the ideas you come up with scare the heck out of me - but in this case, I have to agree with Brian - at least you are asking questions first!

I am sure no one here is trying to get down on you - just trying to express their concern. While it doesn't hurt to think of different ways to do things - please make it a point to check with folks here before you try it out for the first time. Believe me - if there is a safety issue with your idea - folks here will let you know right then!

Be safe! And remember - it's just wood and there is lots of that around!

[Ryan Baker]

If the lathe is shaking, you have to reduce the speed. It's as simple as that. Whatever the size of the blank or the lathe, you can't turn the speed up beyond the point that the vibration sets in. If you cannot turn down the speed of the lathe in question, you plain-and-simple need a different lathe to do the job. Attempts to balance the blank will range from ineffective to dangerous.

Save your blank for a time when you can buy or borrow a larger, slower lathe. Stay safe.