Cedar Shingle Siding

[Greg Cuetara]

My house is approx. 30 years old right now and the cedar shingle siding is showing it's age. I am in the process of having the house stained. There are quite a few shingles which are either cupped or loose. MY FIL is doing most of the work right now and is going around nailing off, with alum. nails, the bottom two corners of each shingle. Not the ideal way to solve the problem but it tightens it up and makes it look a lot better than the raggedy loose look of the shingles.

I need to step in and start helping with the nailing. I was thinking there has to be a better way than to nail everything off by hand. I was actually thinking of picking up some SS brads and using my brad nailer. I think the brads would give enough holding power to just tighten up the shingles...don't need too much...just enough to push back any cupping shingles or hold them from being loose. I was thinking the brads would be smaller and not as noticable. I don't really have the funds right now to pick up a siding nailer, I saw them to be about $300+ but maybe there are other options out there.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Greg

[Paul Atkins]

I would think nailing the "thick' end of the shingles would restrict natural movement -seasonal shrinking and swelling- and would make all them crack. Just a thought.

[Chad Helme]

My first thought was that those shingles were apt to split when nailed, especially with a siding nailer. Nailing by hand, one could pre-drill slighly smaller than the nail shank but that would take even longer.

My guess is that brad nails wouldn't pull the shingles in as tight as you want them. But thats just a guess. I'd try like a standard angled finish nailer, because the nails have a bit more of a head on them than brads, but are still less obvious than a siding nail head. Not sure if thats an option for you.

(edit)
Of course you know, that being 30 years old, what ever you do is only a temporary solution... They will eventually need to all be replaced. You might be better served by choosing one side of the house and doing a full replacement. Maybe do one a year? I love the look of cedar shakes, but not on my house. They are way too labor intensive.

[Virgil Johnson]

I am surprised that the shingles are lasting only 30 years.
Correctly installed they should have a much longer life span.

Are they white cedar or red cedar? (just curious)

I agree with Paul about the expansion contraction. Think of the shingles as floating panels in a framed cabinet door but with much greater stress.
(Always best to apply them over 30 pound felt to act as a mositure bank.)

As for a fix.

If you are renailing (it takes a special staple if you are thinking of power guns) -

I would use hot dipped galvanized finish nail. (4d probably)

The rough barbs of these nails make an irregular hole giving a better and longer lasting grip.
I would also bang then in on an angle (from the outer edges pointing to the center) with no more than two nails per shingle if possible.
The angle may add the ability for the shingle to ride in and out on the nail the shingle expands and contracts.

You may want to not bang the nails in absolutely tight to give the shingle a chance to move with having to crack.

Virgil

[Peter Quinn]

No matter how you nail them, the worst problem with face nailing the bottom edge of cedar shakes is that it gives our pesky friend WATER a clear path to the interior of your building envelope. Not ideal over a vast area. I wouldn't trust any nail that is not stainless to not rust and stain in cedar with direct water exposure over time. Suck as it may, my approach would be to replace when possible using a shingle ripper and delicacy (which I can tell you is no great joy), and use stainless 7d splitless ring shank nails where replacement is not practical. You can nail replacements just below the line of that course leaving the shingles just low enough that you can bang them up with a block and hide the nail penetrations below the course above it. Nail them up at an angle so they can shift as you bang if you go that route.

[Virgil Johnson]

No matter how you nail them, the worst problem with face nailing the bottom edge of cedar shakes is that it gives our pesky friend WATER a clear path to the interior of your building envelope. Not ideal over a vast area. I wouldn't trust any nail that is not stainless to not rust and stain in cedar with direct water exposure over time. Suck as it may, my approach would be to replace when possible using a shingle ripper and delicacy (which I can tell you is no great joy), and use stainless 7d splitless ring shank nails where replacement is not practical. You can nail replacements just below the line of that course leaving the shingles just low enough that you can bang them up with a block and hide the nail penetrations below the course above it. Nail them up at an angle so they can shift as you bang if you go that route.
I agree in part.

But consider this.

All exposed nails will cause staining.
If not from a direct reaction with the material (wood) then from the fact it catches weather and mildew etc. set it.

(I have just a situation like this to with a customer - so let me go on a bit.)

I don't think the problem of nails carrying water into the building if very likely unless the situation is very extreme.



using ring shanked nails is not such a good idea because they can cause this problem.

consider this...

The US Forest lab did a study a few years ago on nails (very important to those living in earthquake country) and what they found was the evenly formed rings on the shanks while giving immediate gratification formed evenly round holes in the wood.
Over time the wood shrunk making the holes larger and very round and the fasteners failed.

The job I have at this moment makes it very clear as the cedar siding (installed ten years ago) has nails protruding 1/4" and more.
Ring shake ss nails.
The siding gets wet and expands catching the nail (the hole gets tight) and pulls it outward. Then the siding dries and the hole gets bigger and the nail is now proud of the siding.
Keep repeating the cycle and the nail protudes.

Water following the nail into the building should be stopped by the layer of felt assuming it is there.
It may not be.
But the felt does form a seal.

What is more likely is the nail carries the cold into the building and any moisture there condenses on the nail.

But you are right.

The best solution is to remove the offend shingles.

Virgil

[Greg Cuetara]

I would like to replace all the siding but that is really not an option right now. I am trying to button things up and get the house stained right now. I am hoping to move out within the next few years so all new siding is not really an option.

Guess we will stay with hand nailing off the offending shingles.

Greg