My first rust purchase!!

[John Keeton]

Just bought this #4 for $7 - my first purchase of Frankenplane rust! Guys, I have to admit I am scared! The euphoric feelings that came over me were reminiscent of some much earlier times in my life;) I am afraid I could begin to like this way too much!:D

I know this means little to anyone else, but I gotta share with someone, and my wife couldn't care less. I think she may be jealous of the feelings that I expressed to her - big mistake:o

These are some before pics - it will take a couple of posts. Other than a #4 body, that appears to be in good shape (minus the rust), good wood with only a very short and faint vertical hairline crack in the knob - I am not sure what I have. The blade is obviously not original to the plane, and I have never heard of that brand. The lever cap has no markings - not sure what that means??

Anyway, if Jim or others have any thoughts about what type, etc. this is, I would appreciate any comments. The blade, chipbreaker and lever cap appear to be in good condition, except for the apparent lack of lineage. No real pitting on the blade, and although it needs some work on cleanup, I think it will hone out OK.

Thoughts?

[John Keeton]

And, the other pics. Where is the best place to get Evaporust??

[Ray Binnicker]

Hey John,
Nice find. I have never heard of that brand of blade. That doesn't mean much, since I have never been accused of being any kind of authority. It may turn out to be quite good, though. You can always replace it with a good LV, LN, or Hock. I just recently got a gallon of Evaporust from O'Rilleys Auto. I think you can find it at most auto stores and Harbor Freight. It is good stuff.
Ray Binnicker

[Bruce Page]

John, I guess I’m just getting lazy but I don’t see the attraction to rehab when there are so many decent #4’s to be had.

I know, I’m a party pooper..:rolleyes::D

[John Keeton]

Bruce, actually I agree with you for the most part. I saw this one, and the wood was good. I figured the tote/knob was worth the $7. I am kind on in a lull right now in the shop. I don't want to start another project until after the WIA, and the next couple of weeks are full of grandkids, daughter visiting, etc. I spent Friday (off work) cleaning in the shop and it is spotless. So, this gives me something to fiddle with for the next few days.

I did kinda like the rush, though!! A moment of weakness - who knows? I blame it all on Jim Koepke!!!!

Ray, thanks for the tip on Evaporust. We have an O'Reilly's.

[Bruce Page]

I would have bought it myself - I need a tote for my vintage Delta tennoning jig and a #4 tote fits perfectly. ;)

[John Keeton]

I would have bought it myself - I need a tote for my vintage Delta tennoning jig and a #4 tote fits perfectly. ;)Sacrilege...pure sacrilege!! Am I at least starting to sound Neander???

[Jim Koepke]

Looks good John. Sorry to get you into this Fettle of Fish.:cool:

The plane looks to be a type 11. Three patent dates, small adjuster nut, short knob.

I have not seen that trade mark on a blade either. That means nothing.

You are correct, a good tote will sell for more than $7. So, you are ahead on that count. The sad part is if you rehab the plane and turn it into a real beauty, it will likely not be sellable to compensate for the time you put into it.

If you are real lucky and do not have to spend anything on parts, you could break even.

But, you can have fun and a learning experience to make a good smoother for use in the shop.

jim

[John Keeton]

Thanks Jim. I just spent some time on the plane type reference site, and had somewhat concluded that it was an 11. And, normally, I would not want to take away from my shop time for a rehab. But, since this is a lull for me, and the plane was otherwise solid, I thought it would be fun. I hope to get the rust cleaned off, and the blade honed, this weekend. Perhaps even refinish the wood, and then post a follow up pick just for fun.

Besides, this will help fill that new till I made!

[Bruce Page]

Sacrilege...pure sacrilege!! Am I at least starting to sound Neander???

You’re getting dangerously close!:eek:

[James Scheffler]

John, I guess I’m just getting lazy but I don’t see the attraction to rehab when there are so many decent #4’s to be had.

I know, I’m a party pooper..:rolleyes::D


I don't know about that. I've tuned a few old Stanleys, but right now I'm working on my first that started out really rusty. I used Evaporust for the smaller parts, and I'm sanding the bottom and sides of the base casting with wet/dry sandpaper.

The Evaporust takes almost all of the work out of derusting the small parts. You just wait until it's done, then rinse and dry. The parts don't come out nice and shiny, though. I'm wondering if light sanding will shine them up, but haven't gotten that far.

Getting the rust off the sides took about 10 minutes, leaving some dark patina. I spent a little more time getting rust and loose paint off of the japaned part. The bottom will be flattened on wet/dry sandpaper, so that time needs to be spent anyway.

So anyway, I'm finding that tuning up a rusty plane takes a couple hours longer than tuning a non-rusty one and maybe $10 in supplies. That seems like a fair trade-off if the plane was $7 (Mine was free. Well, actually inherited from my father-in-law. :().

Jim

[Lynn Dowd]

Van Camp was the Van Camp Hardware & Iron Co. in Indianapolis, IN., according to the Roger K. Smith PTAMPIA volume 1. He states they operated, or at least offered planes, from 1910 to 1920, which is consisitent with the dating of your plane. What you have is a Stanley plane with a Van Camp replacement iron ( probably made by Stanley, as well ). I've seen a few other Van Camp tools, but mostly planes with that logo. If Stanley had made the plane for them to sell with their store logo, it would have had a different lateral lever.

Lynn

[Randy Klein]

And, the other pics. Where is the best place to get Evaporust??

Harbor Freight

[Rusty Elam]

If you will take a brass brush to it when you pull it out of the evaporust it will shine up prety good. I have also had good luck with the green and maroon scotchbright pads mounted on a air grinder.
Great find Jonh, you cant go wrong with a type 11, thats my favorite.
Rusty

[David Christopher]

[QUOTE=John Keeton; I spent Friday (off work) cleaning in the shop and it is spotless. So, this gives me something to fiddle with for the next few days.

John, if your shop is spotless you better takes some pictures, they dont stay that way long ( or at least mine dont )

[Ken Whitney]

John,

I've tried electrolysis, EvapoRust, and citric acid. All work great.

But...

Electrolysis is a fairly serious science experiment (wires and electricity, etc.).

Evaporust is pretty expensive. I picked up some at Harbor Freight, and I think it was about $20 per gallon.

Citric acid powder is relatively cheap and can be purchased at a home-brew or winemaking shop.

I haven't really noticed a quantitative difference between the methods as far as results go.

Good luck with the project.

Ken

[Jim Koepke]

I have knocked light rust and dirt off of screws by chucking them into a drill motor then using a wire brush or steel wool to shine them up.

Mounting screws into the plane base will hold them for cleaning the heads.

jim

[Mike Cutler]

John

Nice plane, I'm certain it will clean up nice;)

I have a chest full of LN planes, but I can't resist buying old planes and rehabbing them either. I always tell myself it's a learning experience:eek:

Mike.

PS.I just found a type 9 ,4 1/2, a #140 and a #11 with a Sweetheart blade,and an off name #4. in addition to the plane body for a Chute Plane. Two MF #9's and a MF#14

I do not need these planes, I do not need these planes...............:eek:

[John Keeton]

Lyn, thanks for the info on the iron!! And, Mike, I think you need help:D

Picked up a gallon of Evaporust (just in case I might succumb to this temptation again at some point, Mike!) and got all the metal cleaned up. Took some quick pics just to kind of show what it looks like now. For some reason, I am having difficulty uploading them??!? I can upload one, then the second upload overwrites the first one. Finally got 4 uploaded, and lost all of them??!? Hopefully, at least one posts with this content.

It really wasn't all that difficult - probably 1 1/2 hour, counting stripping the tote/knob. Everything cleaned up really well. There is some minor pitting on one side, and some staining on the blade, but I think it will sand out for the most part.

I have squared up the edge of the blade, and tomorrow after church, I will put a few coats of shellac on the wood, and flatten and hone the blade.

Then, we will see what kind of shavings this thing will do!!;)

[Archie England]

Congrats on the solid find.

Evaporust is my favorite. Cleaned Katrina crud off three 5-gallon buckets of planes, braces, etc. It works!!!!! and works and works. Strain it and keep using it.

Just a maybe: the presence of a replacement might just indicate that you've bought a genuine old user, one that will take instaneously long wisps of super thin shavings. The old planes worn with age got that way by those who knew how to use them.

220 and up sandpaper will bring back the shiney; I typically go for 320 or 400 so as not to introduce new sanding dips.

BTW, I start all rust cleaning tasks first with Kerosene. That and brass brushes go a long way.

Welcome to the rusty side of the slope. Enjoy!

[John Keeton]

Thanks Archie! Didn't realize I could strain and reuse the Evaporust. What do I use - cheesecloth or just a paper shop towel. Should I pour it back in the gallon?

I used 80 grit to flatten the sides and sole, and then a little 120, but I intend to take it up a notch or two before I call it done.

BTW, I meant to ask, what do you rust rehabbers use to polish up the brass?

[Bruce Page]

It’s hard to believe that that’s the same plane! How do you apply the Evaporust? Do you soak the piece or brush it on?

So that took like ONE DAY, now what are you going to do? :D

[Phillip Pattee]

Brasso, and Neverdull both work well to shine up brass. In a pinch, toothpaste also works fine. If you really want to make it shine you can chuck a small stiched wheel into your drill press or hand held drill and load it up with jewelers rouge and polish with that.

[Richard Dooling]

John,

That cleaned up really nice! I just used some citric acid on an old rasp and it did a good job but I've generally used Evaporust and sandpaper on planes. You will be amazed at how long the Evaporust lasts.

Something I've done twice now is make a new tote. An efficient use of my time? Naw! But it's fun and I use projects like that to help me refine my inadequate shaping skills. Plus you get to shape it to your hand. I'm trying to finish up a #8 and will post pics.


.

[John Keeton]

Phillip, I have used Brasso before, so that will be the choice. That was my first inclination, but I wondered if this elite group had some secret recipe;)

Bruce, the Evaporust requires submersion, so I used the smallest plastic tub I could find in the kitchen:eek: ( DO NOT TELL MY WIFE!) so as to not have to use a lot of the product. It is water thin, and non-toxic, so it says. I didn't wear gloves - though that may not be a bad idea.

After soaking for 1/2 hour, I used a small stainless brush, and a bucket of water, to knock off the loose rust that I presume had been chemically converted to a loose dark powder by the process. A couple of the pieces went back for a second bath.

I was amazed at the level of cleaning. The various small parts - bolts, etc. are absolutely new looking. It really was effortless for the most part.

And yes, this little project went way too quick!! I am afraid I may need to find another plane to work on. Of course, this need to get another plane is simply a way to fill shop time - it has nothing to do with the addiction "some of you" experience;););) I am stronger than that!:D Come to think of it - I hear a lot of addicts say "I can quit anytime I want." But, that would never happen to me??!!??! Would it?

[John Keeton]

Richard, do you strain the Evaporust and put it back in the original container, or do you store the "used" separately?

[Rusty Elam]

+1 on the brasso, the longer you wipe the shinier it gets.
As far as storing the Evaporust I keep mine in a plastic tub that used to hold drywall joint compound (seals easy and tight) and just soak my parts in there. When I need to soak the bases I have a old aluminum foil turkey cooking pan (I guess thats what you call it) that I pour the Evaporust in and then strain it back into the tub using cheesecloth.
The stuff lasts a long time if you keep it sealed.
Rusty

[Matt Ranum]

Its a 12 step program to recovery. Pick out your 12 favorite neanders and send them all you have.:p

Cleaning those old tools is fun though.

[Archie England]

Didn't realize I could strain and reuse the Evaporust. What do I use - cheesecloth or just a paper shop towel. Should I pour it back in the gallon?

I used 80 grit to flatten the sides and sole, and then a little 120, but I intend to take it up a notch or two before I call it done.

BTW, I meant to ask, what do you rust rehabbers use to polish up the brass?


Well, given that I started with two gallons for my bucket brigade....

I strained the used evaporust in a wire strainer covered by a thick paper towel. It's gotten rather nasty, so I keep the dirtier gallon for first run; the newer one for last cleanings. Hard to believe that I cleaned so many tools with those two gallons.

Like others, Brasso is my preferred cleaner. Likewise, I've invested in a quality "brass" wheel for my cleaning grinder.

You know, with the money I've spent on tools to clean up my cheaply-purchased-but-had-to-be-restored tools, I might have been able to buy the premium tools first. Naaaaah, can't be that simple. Newbies, beware here!!!!!! Restoring tools is not just addictive; it's expensive, too.

[jerry nazard]

John,

I use Brasso/Liberty Polish on the knobs. I chuck them in the drill press and give them a spin. I like this better than buffing on a wheel with tripoli and rouge. I also have some Nyalox abrasive wheels in several flavors that come in handy too. Check your hardware store for the wheels.

-Jerry

PS: I have several type 11's and really like them. You done good!

[Richard Dooling]

John I'm afraid I was lazy and just kept it in a plastic tub until it did't work anymore. I think Archie has the right idea.

Very similar to a two can brush cleaning system I came up with in art school. In this system I had hardware cloth in the bottom of the cans so the brushes never get fouled by the sediment that forms on the bottom. First can for heavy cleaning and the second for "rinsing." Then I occasionally decant and filter the liquid into a new can.

.

[Jim Koepke]

John,
That plane is turning out rather nice.

Hope the bug didn't bite too hard, but if it did, I think you will find a lot
of enjoyment in rehabbing old tools for the shop between projects.

jim

[John Keeton]

The plane is finished! Well, not totally. I still want to polish the sole and the sides to a finer grit. But, it is now functional.

The iron had been ground to a very shallow bevel - 12* or so, and the edge was not square. So, I had to take quite a bit off the iron in order to get rid of the shallow bevel and true it up. The front of the iron had some pitting, but I was able to flatten it sufficiently to get rid of much of the pitting close to the edge.
123766
The bevel finally honed out nicely - a little of the shallow grinding still shows. The iron easily shaved hairs - my standard for "done." That may not be for everyone, but please do not start another run on that topic. This is my iron, and it is done!;)
123765
The wood turned out very nice, and overall I am very pleased with my first rust hunt trophy.
123767
But, mostly, this is the result I was after! Very smooth, has a nice sound to it, and takes a very nice shaving:D
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[jerry nazard]

Ah, the SOUND! That crisp zing as it slides and slices. I may have to compose a Concerto for Planes. Seriously, your #4 should look great in that new cabinet.

-Jerry

[John Keeton]

Thanks Jerry! Yeah, it is a unique sound that is fairly new to me. Certainly has a certain sweetness to it:D

The #4 has already taken it's place in the till. Matter of fact, I am getting pics together to do a shop tour thread. I have had some creekers ask me if I was going to do that, and since the shop is clean - probably a good time.

[Phillip Pattee]

Sure looks nice John. You found it in the wild, brought it home, cleaned it up and made it yours. I'll bet you develop a deep sentimental attachment to it soon. Does it have a name yet?;) Is that walnut that you used to give the plane its first trial? It's good that you made a shaving and took pictures otherwise some might accuse you of starting a tool collection. That plane is a certified user now.:)

[Joe Mioux]

John, that turned out very nice. so what is your next plane? ;)

joe

[Ron Petley]

Great looking plane, even the wood grain in the tote is super looking.
A good find for $7. I have been useing the citric acid but I think I will have to switch. Cheers Ron.

[John Keeton]

Ron, the Evaporust works like a breeze, and I like that it is non-toxic and I don't have to worry about vapors or caustic effects.

Joe, I think the "next plane" will be the next one I find that I think I can salvage within my skill level;) I may be hooked, but at the present, I am denying any addictive symptoms! I would like to find a 5.5, 6, 7, 8...... well, you get the idea.

Phillip, that was walnut. Since it is my favorite wood, I usually have a good bit of scraps lying around. And, I like that "certified user" moniker. Perhaps if I use that with all of them, I can avoid any accusation of being an addict???:confused: Has that worked for you?

[Phillip Pattee]

John,

No, it hasn't worked for me at all.

[John Keeton]

Phillip, like most addicts, I have learned early on to lay the blame elsewhere - so, again publicly, I blame Jim Koepke for this illness:D

Were it not for his constant, informative, and enticing posts - motivated by his quest to create a working tool from nothing, I would be a productive individual able to go about my business during the day without thought to the next "find." Honestly, I don't know how he lives with the guilt!!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

John, I guess I’m just getting lazy but I don’t see the attraction to rehab when there are so many decent #4’s to be had.

I know, I’m a party pooper..:rolleyes::D

For some folks the idea of releasing all that pent up and hidden potential is the sweetest siren's call.

[Archie England]

We are users, not addicts.......


hmmmmm. O well, I just need one more.

What fun, this slope we slide.

[Kevin Lucas]

I have the same plane and I live it. I didn't shine it up as much as you did but its the one I always reach for.