Sharpening bowl gouges-question

[Hilel Salomon]

I do use the Tormek, but..... I usually wait until quite a few bowl gouges have gotten dull and then get to it. Rarely will I be able to duplicate the existing grind w/out changing one of the settings. I think that to get to that point, I'll use my slow speed grinder and I've been thinking about changing wheels and using one of the newer jigs that go w/my Oneway/wolverine.
Have any of you tried the sharpfast one? What about vari-grind2?
I am looking at the Norton 3x ones, although I'm not unhappy with the Camel ones I bought from Woodcraft. Any comments?
I do appreciate the fact that Creekers have been so helpful in the past and look forward to your advice.
Regards, Hilel.

[Greg Haugen]

I haven't used either the Sharpfast or the VG2. I did use the standard varigrind for quite some time and liked it. I sharpen all of my Bowl gouges just on the platform/freehand. It's a lot faster and very repeatable with practice. Since I use a combination of Irish/swept grinds as well as Traditional grinds. So it's just easier to set the platforms and leave them-no need to change from platform to jig and vice versa. Mike Mahoney has an excellent sharpening video on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m8-8MNhpvY&feature=channel_page

In my opinion, Norton's wheel are some of the best on the market. The SG are the premium and the 3X are becoming the standard. There's only 20% difference in content between the two, so why double the price?? Good question. A while a go we had Stuart Batty at our club and asked about the wheels. He said if he didn't see the label on the wheels he couldn't tell the SG from the 3X, so don't spend the extra money on the SG and go with the 3X. I've used the 3X and the "Camel" woodcraft wheels (pink). Both are great wheels. If you have some "cryo" tools (thompson, Glaser, etc.) I would lean towards the 3X, they cut faster and cooler. One aspect of sharpening that is often over looked is "dressing". A wheel must be dressed properly to sharpen properly.


my 2 cents, and you probably deserve change back

[Steve Schlumpf]

Hilel - I have only used the original vari-grind and will admit that I love it! I never have to think about repeating the grind on my gouges - I know it will happen. I had to look up the VG2 to find out what it is all about - sure looks like it would work but I have to wonder if it necessary? How many folks actually fall off the grinding wheel? Don't know... but it has never happened to me. Then again - seeing as how you like to collect tools - this could be a really cool addition to your set!

Personally, I would stick with the original vari-grind but I would add the new hold down system. That mod makes sense to me!

Let us know what you decide!

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Why is it that you can't duplicate the grind on the Tormek? I haven't changed my jig seting since the very first time I used it. Well, that's not true, after I found the grind I like, I haven't moved it.

No offense, but you must be doing something wrong, if you can't exactly duplicate the grind.....

[Bernie Weishapl]

Hilel I use the Norton 3X. I really like them. I use Thompson Cyro tools and it seems to sharpen a lot cooler using the wolverine jigs. Keeping the wheels dressed to me is extremely important. I do use the Tormek also and have been doing so more and more. I guess I do a lot of extra like writing down all my settings on the Tormek jigs for each gouge. Now it goes pretty quick.

[Dick Strauss]

Hilel,
You should be able to get repeatable results with the Tormek. Here are a few things that come to mind.

-Did you make a depth block so that you always have the same length of gouge sticking out of the sharpening jig? Many folks find this helpful.

-If you want different angles on various gouges, you may want to try extending the gouges different lengths to get the right angle rather than changing the angle of the jig for each tool. It will change the wing profile but you will get repeatble results wqithout changing the angle of the jig.

IIRC Doug Thompson uses the 3X wheels. He should know a good wheel given how much shaping/sharpening he does. They are avilable in two hardnesses I & K. I think Doug uses the K 3X wheels (the harder of the two). There were lots of complaints about the I wheels being too soft from what I read.

[Ryan Baker]

You definitely should be able to exactly reproduce your grind very easily on the Tormek. If you are having trouble with that, something is wrong. If you don't already have one, get the Tormek Turning Tool Setter jig (I think it is called) -- a plastic setup jig. That makes it a lot faster and easier to get things set back where you need them.

The Wolverine Vari-Grind is very easy to use and repeatable too. All of the new VG1 tools come with the brass knob modification standard. I don't like the VG2 design at all. Falling off the wheel is not a big problem. More importantly, you need to be able to move sideways on the face of the wheel to sharpen long swept-back edges and to keep the wear on the wheel even (the VG2 will quickly wear a groove in the center of the wheel).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I use the original Vari-grind and my Woodcraft slowspeed grinder. It works well for me.

[Doug Thompson]

If you like the Tormek jig go to the Tormek site and buy the adapter so that jig can be used with a dry grinder. I saw it at the national symposium in NM and IMO looked good.

[Hilel Salomon]

A word of explanation about repeatability. I've got about twelve bowl gouges ranging from 1/4 to 1" I use both the ellsworth/Irish and regular (slightly swept back) profiles.
I do have the plastic jig for measuring distances to wheel and for measuring length of gouge past the holding jig, and have two of the bowl gouge jigs-one set for the ellsworth, the other set for the regular, so I don't change those settings at all. Before grinding, I usually mark the gouge w/a black marker to make sure that the grind will be correct.
That being said, I still don't get much repeatability.
I have had pretty good results w/the Oneway jig, but it does wear down the gouges pretty quickly. When I do use the Tormek, I find that the regular grind is sharper than the ellsworth and I have a hard time getting the left side of the ellsworth grind as sharp-because the jig has more limited range.
The bottom line is that as with turning, I'm an inept sharpener, but hopefully, you can make something out of my rambling and come up with something to explain where I'm going wrong.
Thanks, Hilel

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Sounds to me you're doing the right thing..... How much off is the grinding when you mark it? I don't mark mine, I just set it in the jig and sharpen. Do you use those handy tape number things? Or do you always use the same protrusion. If you use the same setting and protrusion, and use the TTS to set your distance, there is nothing left to change the angles. There may be something very basic that you've missed.

[David Stratton]

I have watched video presentations of both the varigrind and the sharp-fast tool guide and would like to hear from anyone who has use the sharp-fast guide. It looks to be more versatile than the other jigs. For one thing the length of the arm can be adjusted in addition to the angle of the jig and distance from the wheel. I suppose there could be some negative that I have not considered and thought I would check with the guys with the experience. Thanks David

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hilel,

I use the vari-grind. Here's what I do. I take a magic marker and color the end of the gouge. I then place the tool in the vari-grind. I then use the coloration to do the setup. After I get it setup, I just lightly grind it enough to take off the coloration. You shouldn't have to grind much and should not have to grind it enough to change the shape unless that's what you are intending. It takes a lot longer to get it set up than it does to grind it. Just a light grind .....lightly

[Richard Madison]

Am surprised at a couple references to heat or grinding cooler. Assume this refers to shaping rather than sharpening, as the latter is only a couple of quick passes, very lightly as Ken said.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

For years, I used a jig to grind my gouges, then I started experimenting with the Michelsen grind. JoHannes creates a slight convex shape behind the cutting edge as opposed to the normal concave shape created by the wheel and a jig. The is no jig that will create a convex surface behind the edge, so hand-grinding is necessary. It took a little practice, but a quick touch up, without a jig, is now quite easy (and very fast). As I started doing more and more demos, it also became easier to hand-grind instead of playing around with various club-supplied jigs.

Why use a convex grind? For me, it gives me more control. I'm still "rubbing the bevel", but the bevel is immediately behind the cutting edge, not a 1/4" (or further) away. There's also less bruising of the wood fibers. Anyway, it works for me.

[Dave Ogren]

I can't give you a comparison, but I use a belt sander 1" X 42" with a 120 grit blue green cloth backed paper ... Cost $2.18 each, after 5 months it is still perfect. I have the table tilted to about a 45 degree angle, so it will sharpen any size. The angle is totally flat, no heat build up, almost no wear on the gouge ( I have only done 65 bowls) you can not tell that the gouge is any shorter at all. The 120 grit leaves a mirror finish on the bevel, it sure seems sharp. I think this is how a lot of knife sharpeners do it. Total time from turning on to turning off the machine is possibly less than 15 seconds. Speed was one of my goals so was not spending money. I accomplished both. Practice was fairly quick also.

Good luck,

On your travels between SC and VA feel free to stop in and have a look and use my set-up to sharpen yours, I live about in the middle.

Dave