Pricing your work

[Scott Hackler]

Well this has now become a question that I have to have answered. My mother, whom now has a pen that I made recently, has been showing it off and now I have a few orders. Problem is I dont know what to reasonably charge for my work. This goes with the normal turnings as well.

So, what would be a resonable price for a standard Euro style pen using non exotic wood? Any difference if the hardware is gold of brushed nickel?

How about pricing bowls, boxes and HF?

Thanks

[Brian Novotny]

Take into account time spent, money spent, and go to a craft fair to see what others are charging. I'm big on books. Probably the best way to get an idea is to goto www.etsy.com (http://www.etsy.com) as it's filled with woodturnings.

[Toney Robertson]

No help here. If you can figure out pricing please let me know. It is something that I have struggled with since I started turning.

Pens are easier if you use a multiplier such as 3 times the kit+wood cost. Bowls still have me stumped.

Toney

[Dennis Ford]

I don't do pens (probably should try them) but do sell a few bowls, vases etc. I will be reading this thread closely as I find setting prices to be quite difficult. My current system is completely subjective, I pick prices based on what I think the item will sell for or what I think the item is worth to me. For pieces that are special to me, it is the higher of the two. For ordinary pieces, it is just what I think the item will sell for. This income is not needed for food or clothing (I would be barefoot and hungry if it was).
Most of the items I have actually sold were priced below $250 and only a few were below $120.

[Chris Hayes]

I'll second Brian's suggestion. Not that I've had anything move on Etsy (yet), the pricing seems to be fairly consistent. I'd only use Etsy pricing on Etsy not at an art fair/walk or some personal retail venue.

There are two more ways that I look at pricing pieces (pens mostly). The first is to get an idea what others are charging at art fairs. I'm fortunate that we have about four fairs here in central Indiana that my wife and I like to attend. I try to stop by and see as many of the woodworkers as my kids will allow. When I see something truly unique I try to support our cohorts (and then find my own way to duplicate at home). But while I'm in the tent I also pay attention to what they are asking --sometimes its far more than I'd be comfortable asking.

The second method I use to get a feel is looking at the personal pages of other Creekers. Sometimes you get a 'feel' to what the market is asking for some really top end stuff. (I won't know if the pieces are moving or not, but I get an idea of whats acceptable to ask for what size piece.) A subset of sorts for pens is looking at some of the retail store sites (paradisepen.com ; fountainpenhospital.com ;etc) are charging. Not that I'm making $1800 pens (yet), but I can see how they're being marketed and can try to tailor my description to be similar.

I hope this helps...

[Brian Novotny]

as I've only sold at a few craft fairs my general rule of thumb is that I'd rather hold on to pieces that are exceptionally well made and completely unique than "giving them away" at prices that just make your work look cheap. Underpricing is worse than overpricing IMO

To be blunt I've never turned a pen and never will as IMO it's not really turning, but more of an assembly process with very little room for artistic expression....not to say that there's no market for them.....as every businessman wants nice pens...see "cross"

[Richard Madison]

Scott,
After gathering all your data, etc., ask your mother how much she thinks your pens should/would sell for. That might give you some insight into your potential market.

[Curt Fuller]

I'll give you a little different approach to pricing pens. Say you have $15 into a nice simple pen kit, you've spent another $30 plus on the pen mandrel, drill bits, and bushings. Domestic wood grows on trees and with something as small as a pen it's going to be tough to find a piece of wood that really shows off the wood. So say you use a piece of burl scrap or something, maybe you have $2 in the wood. Then you pay yourself $30 per hour for your time which might add up to half an hour or another $15. Add in some overhead for the lathe, finishing supplies, and shop expenses of maybe $10 per pen. That first pen probably costs you somewhere in the neighborhood of $62. Will your customer pay $72 for a pen? Sometimes, but that's pretty steep in today's economy for a simple wooden pen. However each subsequent pen you make using the same bit, bushings, mandrel etc brings your cost down and producing in numbers allows you to reduce the time you have into each pen. So eventually if you like turning pens you'll realize a profit. The real reward though, will be in the satisfaction from an enjoyable hobby and the compliments when people see your work.

[Brian Novotny]

Going against what I just said Name has alot to do with pricing....maybe it's worth it to sell pieces at a bargain to get your name out there. There's a guy in Hawaii named Kelly Dunn who's pieces commend $100's of dollars more just because of the name.....so maybe selling at prices to get your name out there might be worth it. In some circumstances, you could have two almost identical pieces made from the same wood, just as good finish, but the name on the bottom could yield $1000 more. There's alot of factors to consider. With pens i would price them after looking up how much a nice pen (mass produced without the striking colors of a turned pen would cost) and take it from there.

[Scott Hackler]

Yeah I actually calculated that the first 5 pens (withthe purchase of the mandrel, mill, bit and 5 kits) cost me about $20 each without figuring any labor.

From here on out I will only have kit + wood (if any cost) + labor.

I will ask Mom what she thinks. I think that I will base here idea on a 1/4 sawn oak pen or a walnut or maple (that I had). Then if I get any unusual wood variety I will raise the price according to the rarity of the wood.

I am guessing that I will probaly hear $20-30 each, but we will see. They live in a very small rural town of mostly older people (my hometown, so I am well known by all these people)

The bowls and such are another issue. I dont see many, if any of them moving in this little KS town. But having sen what some want for thier stuff on ETSY, I wonder how many actually SELL at those prices.

[Scott Hackler]

One other thought, in regards to pen turning as not "real" turning. I would have to say its not the same kind of turning (as bowls and such) and it is relatively easy to do, the end result of taking a peice of kindling and turning it into a beatiful item qualifies it for me.

I love tuning bowls and such, but man are the pens a lot of fun. It is the instant gradification of a rough to finished pen in less than an hour that keeps me wanting to make more. The bowls and such have a multi month delay to see the dried and finished product.

If you havent turned pens, get a mandrel and try it out. for about $100 you can have everything and I cant imagine you not liking the process and results. I like all kinds of turning. It keeps the hobbie/ craft fresh and new.

[Brian Novotny]

I by no means was trying to put you down. If you really enjoy turning pens who am I to take that from you? I just think that the whole process involves very little turning and alot of assembly. I'm sorry if what I said came out wrong, but personally I'm just not into all the kit making turning like bottle stoppers, pens, etc. Now a lamp setup is a different story!!! Do what YOU like....I just don't really like the whole assembly process......and this is coming from someone who can never find a pen!!!!

[Maria Alvarado]

Scott,
If you haven't already, I'd suggest you check out the international association of penturners for a wealth of info, including various pricing formulas (which mostly serve to justify what you want to sell the pen for). That said, $30-40 is a frequent starting point for Euro-style pens. Price up or down depending upon the quality of your finish, the "wow" factor of the blank, and the quality of the kit plating. Some folks use a factor of 3 X your costs, so if you multiply the kit, blanks and consumables (sandpaper etc.) you can get a reasonable price point. Once you establish yourself, that factor will increase. Good luck and congrats on the sales!
Maria

[David Walser]

...
To be blunt I've never turned a pen and never will as IMO it's not really turning, but more of an assembly process with very little room for artistic expression....

Brian,

I understand where you're coming from; however, you're wrong. (To put it bluntly.) Pen turning allows for a lot of artistic expression. Some turners like adding small beads or grooves to decorate their pens; others place a cove/bead at the tip of the pen to make it more comfortable to hold. While most of us use kits for pen making (kits are optional), many of us modify the kits by replacing the metal center band with one turned from bone or ebony; or we might make the pen "closed" on one or both ends. (Closed means the "end" of the pen is part of the wood or plastic blank; that is, when the blank was drilled, the end was left solid.) Even if we don't modify the kit and don't add beads or coves to the turning, there's still a lot of variety in the curve a turner can give the blank. (A "basic slimline pen kit" has a hole drilled through it that's just over 1/4". I've seen pens made with these kits that are barely larger than that at their largest diameter and I've seen some that are over 3/4" at their widest. For such a small item, that's a lot of room for variation.) None of this goes into the the variety of blanks, from different types of wood to blanks cast from exotic materials to blanks segmented blanks. When you add all the possibilities together, there must be thousands of different styles of pens a turner could make -- each offering a different chance at artistic expression.

I'm not trying to talk you into turning a pen. I'm merely pointing out that you've grossly underestimated the variety and challenges involved in pen turning. It's a different type of turning than making a bowl or a hollow form, but it's just as much "real turning" as turning boxes, spindles for a stair rail, or Christmas ornaments is real turning. That's one of the things that's so wonderful about turning -- there's such a variety of opportunity to learn new things and to express oneself.

[Scott Hackler]

I by no means was trying to put you down. If you really enjoy turning pens who am I to take that from you? I just think that the whole process involves very little turning and alot of assembly. I'm sorry if what I said came out wrong, but personally I'm just not into all the kit making turning like bottle stoppers, pens, etc. Now a lamp setup is a different story!!! Do what YOU like....I just don't really like the whole assembly process......and this is coming from someone who can never find a pen!!!!

Brian, I took no offence. I believe that the artistic aspect is very minimal for me, for pen turning. So far it is the easiest thing I have ever turned. I do it just for fun. I would rather express myself in the shapes on the big stuff. But having said that, even to a new pen turner (Im on pen #9 I think) I can tell you that it takes me about 40-45 minutes to turn, polish, and finish a pen and only about 5 minutes to assemble it. Mostly because I cant trust getting the transmission pressed in correctly on the 1st - 5th attempt and have to keep checking and ....just a little bit further...re checking, ect. I am also slowed down because I am using a "quick clamp" to press things together. I dont have a pen press.

I say if its fun, turn it. Mushrooms are kinda stupid, but they are fun to turn and easy to do.

[Belton Garvin]

I picked up a book a while back that has helped quite a bit. It covers just about everything you could think of and a few thinks you would never think of. It's call "The Woodworkers Guide to Pricing Your Work" by Dan Ramsey. I have the 3rd edition and picked it up on amazon.com really cheap. It also has a lot of forms you can reproduce to use in your business.

[Harlan Coverdale]

I agree with Maria on her recommendation for the IAP website, and the $30 to $40 starting range for a regular Euro pen or something comparable.


...There's a guy in Hawaii named Kelly Dunn who's pieces commend $100's of dollars more just because of the name...
Well, that and the fact that he's been turning top notch work for years. ;) You don't get the name by turning and showing junk.

[Steve Kubien]

Something you ought to consider is wholesale vs retail. If you take a pen kit + blank x 3 = price, you will be broke unless you are waaaayyyy fast. Retailers will only give you 1/2 of that (thereabouts). Now take your original price and double that, THAT should be close to your retail price. I am also firmly of the opinion that you should charge RETAIL on any pen you sell, except you are selling to a store/gallery.

That is my not-so humble opinion.

Steve

[Brian Novotny]

Brian, I took no offence. I believe that the artistic aspect is very minimal for me, for pen turning. So far it is the easiest thing I have ever turned. I do it just for fun. I would rather express myself in the shapes on the big stuff. But having said that, even to a new pen turner (Im on pen #9 I think) I can tell you that it takes me about 40-45 minutes to turn, polish, and finish a pen and only about 5 minutes to assemble it. Mostly because I cant trust getting the transmission pressed in correctly on the 1st - 5th attempt and have to keep checking and ....just a little bit further...re checking, ect. I am also slowed down because I am using a "quick clamp" to press things together. I dont have a pen press.

I say if its fun, turn it. Mushrooms are kinda stupid, but they are fun to turn and easy to do.I guess I'm just not as fond as spindle turning.....now mushrooms are GREAT IMO. and very popular. I actually need some nice pens, but don't want to make them, any chance for a trade? I have some nice boxes and I need pens.... I really admire them, but I don't like making them. I also have a drill chuck for trade along with others for trade. You're making me want these pens!!!!!!!!

[Scott Hackler]

Brian I'll PM you and we may sort out a trade of sorts!

[Billy Tallant]

Scot,

I've been turning pens since this last December. I've read a lot of different ideas on pricing. First off, I'm not into this hobby to get rich. I like to sell my pens at a reasonable cost & then invest my profits into more pens.

There are a couple of formulas that I like. One is 2x + $10, the other is 3x.

Basically figure out cost of pen kit, blank, & supplies needed. Then on 1st forumula, just double the cost of your materials & then add $10. 2nd formula, figure your expenses in your pen, then multiply that figure by 3 times. That is your selling price.

I usually go by the first formula only. Sand paper, glue, liquid wax, poly finish--all of these do add up. I probably sell my pens on the low side though, because I don't always worry about the sandpaper, glue, etc..

I do not worry about the time that I've spent in making a pen. When I first started turning pens, I might have an hour or better invested in a pen. Now after gaining more experience, I can make that same pen in 15-20 minutes or less. Besides it's the thrill of turning & enjoying seeing the finished product that motivates me.

Sorry for being long winded here...

[Scott Hackler]

Billy, thats good info to know.

I had the following pens made up and priced as marked.

Straight grain walnut (plain) w nickel hardware $25
Diagonal cut Walnut w nickel hardware $30
Bur Oak w gold hardware $30
1/4 sawn Oak w gold hardware $30
Purpleheart w gold hardware $35
Padauk w gold hardware $40

I just started with the a suggested $30 base price and marked from that point if the wood was either rare or plain. Seemed to be OK as far as the highest pen (Padauk) because she jumped on it.

As far as the picture...hmmmm that would have been a good idea! I thought about it AFTER I sent the pens with my mom! I will definitely take pictures of the next ones. I have 2 more Padauk blanks left.

[Brian Novotny]

wow, I had NO idea woodturned pens sold for so much, I just wish it was fun for me, because I ALWAYS need a pen.

[Tim Self]

wow, I had NO idea woodturned pens sold for so much, I just wish it was fun for me, because I ALWAYS need a pen.

The pricing for euro's is right on. Simply because most won't spend more on it. There is more work in it than a Jr series. As far as how much will the market bear, A beautiful rosewood burl or such on a Jr series will fetch $175. There may not be so much "skill" sompared to a 8" hollowform but you can't put it in your pocket. And we are attempting to educate the public as this being an art form aren't we?

I fault noone for pricing their pens on the lower end. No I don't try to make a living off this, (don't need to) but price is perception of quality. I do not post often but felt I needed to voice my opinion.

[Scott Hackler]

Hey Tim, do you have a link to the "Jr" pen? I would like to see what that pen looks like.

Thanks

[Greg Haugen]

Scott,
The "jr" pen refers to the "jr." series of other pens that Craft Supplies, and other manufacturers carry. If you want to look through some nice pen galleries, take a look through the Penmaker's Guild members' galleries. Many have prices in their gallery. These are the best of the best.

http://www.penmakersguild.com/browse.php

Here's also a link to the Craft Supplies page for "upper level" pens.

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Pen_Making___Rollerball___Fountain_Pen_Kits?Args=

[Bernie Weishapl]

wow, I had NO idea woodturned pens sold for so much, I just wish it was fun for me, because I ALWAYS need a pen.

Brian for the Emperor sold by CSUSA I get $130 to $175 depending on wood. For the Lotus pen kit I get $175 to $225 again depending on wood. All of the above that I have made (8) I have sold. My best sellers are Sierra/Wallstreet click pens which I get $30 to $55 for. Pens done well can get some fairly decent sales.