Picked up some Rifflers

[Doug Mason]

As I had never used--nor did I know much--about rifflers, I suspected they would be of help in the detail/carving work I have been doing of late. So when I was at Woodcraft recently--I couldn't help myself--so I sucked up and ponied out roughly $80 for four rifflers--to give them a try--per the pic below:

123557

The two on the left are a rasp cut, with one being rounded-over on the sides and the other square on the sides; while the two on the right are a file cut, and again, with one being rounded-over on the sides and the other square

I have found them to be great for what they are--just minature rasps/files that let you sneek into the small areas. I'm not sure what brand I got--but eventually I'll have to get a whole set of these. (Joel at TFFW has some--but $$$).

[Jim Koepke]

I have picked up a few at yard sales and in groups of stuff on eBay. Also have one file cut riffler.

The ones with a finer tooth pattern are real nice to use. The coarser ones a little more difficult.

Some are made in China and do not seem as well made as the ones in my assortment that were made in Italy.

jim

[Peter Bell]

As I have an arrangement with the Woodcraft store in Orange County L.A. I have been restocking my tool cabinet monthly or when my daughter is there.

I have just ordered the Nicholson #50 rasp amongst other things. The problem I have with the cheap rifflers I have ( not from Woodcraft ) is they are very course and rough and chew the wood out like they have been bitten by a rodent. I would say a beaver, but I do not know what a beaver's bite is.

I have tried a #49 rasp which gets a fair bit of praise and found it to be too rough and aggressive for what I do. I have seen a report on the Lee Valley site saying that the #50 is only slightly smoother than the #49 and only the most experienced woodworker can pick the difference.

I am not game to put my toes in the water and purchase these rifflers at Woodcraft, especially the smooth ones as I am thinking that because they are small and do not have the size and weight behind them to push through the fibres cheap and nasty ones will not cut the mustard.

I really am looking for something like a finishing riffler that producers a nice cut with not much final sanding to be done and something that does not tear strips off the wood like a cat o nine tails.

Your report and review is interesting.

Peter

[george wilson]

I think the Woodcraft riflers are made in China. They used to be Italian,and I bought some back then.

[Brian Kent]

Doug, would you be willing to show us a test on a tight inside curve, with a photo with a riffler next to it? Not a finished product, but a sample of what kind of surface it leaves?

Peter, where is "Gold Coast, Oz"?

Brian

[Mike Henderson]

I find the coarse rifflers to be too coarse, and the fine rifflers to be too fine. I'd like something in between but haven't found it yet.

I want to use them in carving. When I use the coarse rifflers, they leave deep scratch marks that then have to be worked out. The fine rifflers just don't remove hardly any wood.

Mike

[Doug Mason]

I purchased these particular riflfers (they were the Italian ones at Woodcraft) as I learn to carve claw&ball feet, per below:

123613 123614

For me they have worked great on these feet (that's why I got this shape of riffler)--no different than using a large rasp to shape a leg; on the ball above, for example, I'll use a 3/8 chisel, followed a a #2 gouge to clean up, then use the rough riffler follwed by the file riffler for the final shaping, and then sand paper. And likewise for the web. In the pics you can see the dust from both a combination of the rifflers & some sandpaper. And as you can see, I still need alot of practice!!!

Obviously, it seems that rifflers will be usefull primarily for people who carve.

[Brian Kent]

Thank you Doug.

That's very helpful to see.

I have never entered into the carving world but would find that useful for some tight inside joints.

Brian

[Peter Bell]

Doug, would you be willing to show us a test on a tight inside curve, with a photo with a riffler next to it? Not a finished product, but a sample of what kind of surface it leaves?

Peter, where is "Gold Coast, Oz"?

Brian


Brian, Gold Coast OZ is actually the Gold Coast, Queensland Australia. The main area as far as America and the rest of the world would know is Surfers Paradise. I actually live in the Gold Coast Hinterland 10 miles from the beach on acreage with some animals and hobby workshop.

Surfers is where they have the Gold Coast Indy 500 Race in Australia and all the Indy cars and the world class Indy drivers compete. My interest in this site, Sawmill Creek is because I have been to the States a few times and spent some time in Omaha, Nebraska visiting one of my daughters who lived there for about eight years.

I have been to New Orleans and drove through to Orlando Florida or should I say my daughter did. I am fortunate that my other daughter, an International Flight attendant is in L.A. at least once a month so I try to take advantage of that opportunity as much as I can.

Peter.

[Peter Bell]

..........

[Peter Bell]

I find the coarse rifflers to be too coarse, and the fine rifflers to be too fine. I'd like something in between but haven't found it yet.

I want to use them in carving. When I use the coarse rifflers, they leave deep scratch marks that then have to be worked out. The fine rifflers just don't remove hardly any wood.

Mike

What Mike says is what I have been thinking too. Looks like I have not found the Holy Grail yet, so the search continues and the wallet gets lighter.

I am at least doing my bit to help your economy get back on its feet.

Peter

[Brian Kent]

Thank you Peter!

[Doug Mason]

Per Mike's comment--he know's alot more about this stuff than I do; but for the walnut I was working these rifflers worked very well. I have not tried them on softwoods or on any type of refief carving--but when I do maybe I will come to the same conclusion.

[Peter Bell]

With the cheap aggressive Rifflers that come from China I wonder is it possible to smooth them out a bit so they produce a more kindly cut.

I have some which are rather larger than a normal size Riffler that only an old Indian Fakir with his nail bed could love.

I only paid $4 and $8 A for them so I was thinking it would be no loss to try to take the edge off them by a small metal file. Anybody got any suggestions like maybe some blue sand paper, emery paper, acid, etc.

[Peter Evans]

Peter, a thought (I have not done this).

I find that old blunt files and rasps after citric acid sharpening tend to be less aggressive than they would have been when new, still cut well, but smoother. Very blunt rasps usually still have a shiny flat after sharpening, but cut ok. The teeth do not last as long as new I suspect. Note I am using the files mainly on wood.

If you were to deliberately blunt a rasp, and then acid sharpen - maybe you will get a smoother but still effective rasp.

another Peter in brisk Sydney winter

[Peter Bell]

Peter, a thought (I have not done this).

I find that old blunt files and rasps after citric acid sharpening tend to be less aggressive than they would have been when new, still cut well, but smoother. Very blunt rasps usually still have a shiny flat after sharpening, but cut ok. The teeth do not last as long as new I suspect. Note I am using the files mainly on wood.

If you were to deliberately blunt a rasp, and then acid sharpen - maybe you will get a smoother but still effective rasp.

another Peter in brisk Sydney winter

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I might give this cheap riffler I got from the Brisbane Wood Show for $8 a citric acid bath and see what happens. I have another old riffler I did the sand paper trick to and it did quieten it down. Not perfect, but a lot better.

Maybe I am expecting an Aurio performance from some Chinese crap. Now, if I only knew what an Aurio does. I would pony up for one if I was convinced they are the Holy Grail, but I would have to see it in person and have a try first and I know that ain't going to happen.

Peter

[george wilson]

I bought an expensive "lifetime rasp" from a guitar supply store in California. It was made in Europe. Not an Aurio. I found out that it wasn't even hardened. I wrapped it in stainless steel wrap with some Kasenite inside the envelope,and at least case hardened the teeth. I reported this lifetime rasp to the vendor,but got no reply.

Years ago I bought some Chinese rasps because they were shaped just like 18th.C. Portugese rasps ( I was in a museum). They weren't hardened either,but they cost only $1.25 each. Now,I see these same "Dragon" rasps selling for something like $40.00. I can't recall who is selling them,but they are the same rasps. They are straight sided,half round,and have the shape of a very tall triangle with a tang on their short sides. The $1.25 rasps I bought had the appearence of having very thin silver paint sprayed on them starting below the tang. I now think that was a very thin coat of chromium nitrate,but it was so thin that it did not prevent me easily filing a spot near an edge to see if the rasp was hardened. I hope they are at least hardened now,but I'm not going to buy one to find out!!!

[Jon van der Linden]

Cheap rasps and files simply don't work as well. Although good ones are expensive, they actually work, and the job is tedious enough with tools that work well. I did buy some Chinese rifflers years ago, and they were terrible. No idea if they've improved since then.

The agressive cutting is probably similar to a brand new saw. It will be rough and it will grab for a bit, but after some use it will smooth out.

For files I highly recommend the Swiss pattern files made by Grobet in Switzerland. They are expensive, but they work amazingly well. Another trick with those is to polish the "safe" side so it's absolutely smooth. Usually there's just enough of a burr on the safe sides to create a nice scratch right where you don't want it.