pine cabinet question

[Michael Conner]

I am getting ready to make kitchen cabinets for our home. I have some longleaf pine lumber that I milled myself. It is highly 'lightered' meaning it is VERY resinous. This gives the lumber a beatiful color, but I am thinking that it will not hold screws very well when door hinges are installed. I plan on using European hinges. Is there anything I can do to help ensure the hinges remain firmly attached to the doors and frames? The only option I have come up with is to drill a hole and glue a hardwood dowel where the screws need to go. I can do that, but it seems pretty time consuming, especially if there is an easier way to go about it.

[Lee Schierer]

Dowels are not going to work well as the screw will be in end grain. I would suggest use a 35mm forstner bit for the large hole so you get a tight fit on the cup. The screws should hold fine if you drill pilot holes. On european style hinges the cups hold the majority of the weight. The screws just hold the cups in the door.

[bill mullin]

Not sure if this would work in your case, but in model airplane building, where we screw into balsa, we install the screw, back it out, soak the hole with thin ca glue, let dry and re-install the screw. The ca hardens the wood and threads.

[Michael Conner]

Thanks for the comments guys. I had not even considered the end-grain for the dowels! I am not as concerned about the screws in the doors as I am the screws in the face frames that will also be pine. The CA may work. I had not thought of that either. I suppose I could do some tests to see how it will hold up. I have also heard about a coarse threaded insert that you screw into the wood and then use a machine screw that fits into the insert. I can see such a part in my mind, but I have no idea what they are called or where to buy them. Has anyone here used such a thing?

Thanks again!

[harry strasil]

FWIW, When I put screws into pine, I hardly ever drill a hole except for the larger sizes that may split it, I make the holes with a small finish nail that has the head cut off either in an archimedian drill or a small hand drill. Pine is soft and making the hoe with a nail compresses the wood so the screw threads hold better than removing material with a drill bit. Also I use a candle of bees wax to lube the threads.

[sean m. titmas]

try using a 5mm euro screw. since the shaft diameter is consistent for the full length of the screw and the threads run full length there is tremendous holding power for such a little screw. drill an undersized pilot hole.

[John Harden]

FWIW, When I put screws into pine, I hardly ever drill a hole except for the larger sizes that may split it, I make the holes with a small finish nail that has the head cut off either in an archimedian drill or a small hand drill. Pine is soft and making the hoe with a nail compresses the wood so the screw threads hold better than removing material with a drill bit. Also I use a candle of bees wax to lube the threads.

I agree with Harry. Soft woods don't often need much of a pilot hole.

Also, your dowel idea is a good one, but just rotate them 90 degrees. What you're really trying to accomplish is the ability to screw in to some long grain wood, correct?

So..., in those areas where you have pitch pockets (I doubt there will be all that many) where screws need to go, just drill in from the side of the door on the edge where the euro hinge is, then glue in a hardwood dowel (maple would blend in nicely). Basically, you're drilling in parallel to the face of the drawer so that when you install the screw it passes through the side of the dowel, versus the top (which would be end grain).

Sounds confusing, but when you install the screws in the euro hinge on the inside face of the drawer they'll actually be screwing in to the long grain of your dowel. Nice and tight. I've done this and it works for many applications.

Make sense?

BTW, Longleaf pine is gorgeous. Post pictures, please!!!!!

Regards,

John

[Bob Carreiro]

Use the wrap-around kind cup hinges. They scew into the FF edge and wrap around the back of the FF and screw in there too. But even if you don't, doubt you'll have problems.

Bob

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

On european style hinges the cups hold the majority of the weight. The screws just hold the cups in the door
+1 to that. (IMHE)
It's the friction fit of the cup that does the lion's share of the work - or so I've been told by poeple who's opinion I regard highly.

One of those people also suggested I flood the pockets with shellac prior to putting the cup in place & bed them into the wet shellac.
I tried it and it seems to work well.


I am not as concerned about the screws in the doors as I am the screws in the face frames that will also be pine
This is strictly my opinion here - based on the number of 50+ year old pine framed kitchens I've run across.
Back 50 years ago, pine frames & birch ply doors were standard fare in the tract homes of the day. Huge numbers of these kitchens still exist today, and after half a century of use, most of the hinge screws are as tight as the day they went in.
Barring any abuse, I believe the screws should hold just fine.

The only ones I've really seen that have worked loose have been where the old shellac finished cabinets had been painted at some point and/or ones where the hardware had been swapped out.
I honestly believe if you put them in and leave them there, they'll be there & tight 50 years from now.

[Glen Butler]

Not sure if this would work in your case, but in model airplane building, where we screw into balsa, we install the screw, back it out, soak the hole with thin ca glue, let dry and re-install the screw. The ca hardens the wood and threads.

You stole the words out of my mouth. Accelerator works well to hasten drying of the CA especially in pine where the resins resist the wicking of the CA into the grain. I think the blum inserta hinge will hold just fine as far as the door is concerned. What are you making the boxes out of?

["Tim Quinn"]

http://www.mcfeelys.com/threaded-inserts

[Michael Conner]

You stole the words out of my mouth. Accelerator works well to hasten drying of the CA especially in pine where the resins resist the wicking of the CA into the grain. I think the blum inserta hinge will hold just fine as far as the door is concerned. What are you making the boxes out of?

Boxes will be plywood, but the hinge will attach to a pine face frame. I may create a model with the CA to see if it will do what I want. I am likely making a bigger deal out of this than I should. I just want to make sure things hold up.

Tim, thanks for the link. I will likely try those as well.

[Stephen Edwards]

I've worked with a lot of long leaf pine. Some of it is a lot harder than others. In fact, some of it that I've worked with is extremely hard. I've never been able to understand what that's true. But, it is.