Jet 1640 vs. Nova DVR XP

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Do you think the Jet has a big advantage since it includes a cast iron base/legs? Can one build a sturdy enough base for the Nova that would keep this lathe "grounded" ? I like a lot of the features on the Nova like having no belts and the swivel head stock. The latter is really convenient to me as it makes turning bowls a lot more comfortable.

[Alan Trout]

Alan, Here is the thread on my stand. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=99001 Of course I am biased but I have turned on both and I personally like mine more. My DVR XP is as stable if not more stable than a PM3520.

I agree the DVR has some nice features and things that I see as an advantage. They really are nice machines.

Good Luck

Alan

[alex carey]

Well heres the thing, the Nova doesnt come with a stand, if you look at Alan Trout's stand you can see that it is definitely sturdy. The upside with the nova is that it can swivel where as to get the same effect with the jet you need to slide the headstock down and some how create an outboard tool rest. Leaving all else equal you either have to build an outboard tool rest for the jet or build a stand for the nova. An outboard tool rest is probably easier to make and will allow you to turn to the floor.

I wouldn't even think about the belt changing for the jet. Most people are able to keep it on the same belt the entire time. Others will have to change it only once per turning. Anyways it takes only 15 seconds.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I bought a universal stand for mine, enclosed it and put in some shelves. I put 300 lbs of sand in the bottom. It does not move at all and I have had some big out of round pieces on it.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

So it sounds like you're saying that the Nova has the advantage except you have to build/buy a stand. I forgot that you never have to change any belts on the Nova but I take it this is minor. How easy is it to change speeds on the Nova xp? I've only used a Delta with a very noisy reeves drive that drives me nuts. I can't wait to step up to a smoother quieter lathe. I actually prefer my Jet mini simply because it's so quiet. BTW is the Nova quiet? I would think so but thought I'd ask. Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

[Mike Lipke]

I do like the dial speed control, vs punching a button repeatedly to speed up or slow down. That's just me though.

[Alan Trout]

The DVR XP is one of the quietest smoothest lathes out there. Changing speeds is easy. The lathe has 5 preset speeds and it also can be changed in 5rpm increments from 100RPM to 3500RPM. It is not as fast as a knob but in reality not a big deal at all.

Alan

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ditto Alan. I have my preset speeds set at what I mostly turn at. I really don't see a problem with the buttons. Sure it isn't as fast as a knob but being a hobby turner changing speeds is a none issue to me. I like the smoothness, quiet and no belts.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Alan, I asked the same question of both Allen Lacer and Bill Grumbine. Both feel the Jet is the better machine. Bill G. likes the DVR but notes some potential concerns. Allen on the other hand doesn't like the DVR at all.

I can share the specific comments if you'd like.

JH

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan, I asked the same question of both Allen Lacer and Bill Grumbine. Both feel the Jet is the better machine. Bill G. likes the DVR but notes some potential concerns. Allen on the other hand doesn't like the DVR at all.

I can share the specific comments if you'd like.

JH

Jake, I would be interested in hearing what their concerns/dislikes were. It may not be of concern to me but I'd like to know anyway. Please Nova owners do not be offended by this as it is just personal preference like many other things in life. You sound like you like your machines regardless.

[alex carey]

changing the speeds at 5 rpm increments is as big a deal as changing belts on the jet.

The bed seems smaller on the nova, I haven;t used it so I can't say.

[Narayan Nayar]

I think it'd be hard for Nova DVR owners (like myself) to be offended. Most Nova owners I know are absolutely ecstatic about their lathes and probably heard the "negatives" when considering the DVR.

The most common negative is the hypothetical situation: "What if something happens to the drive? On most lathes you can just swap out the motor. On the DVR you have to replace the whole head unit. And what if Nova goes out of business?"

This is a valid concern, I suppose, but wasn't enough to sway me (or many others, apparently) from the positives:


Small footprint but expandable
One of the smoothest running lathes in existence
Variable speed w/ presets & safety controls
Swiveling headstock
Ability to run on either 110 or 220


Another concern I heard when considering the purchase was that the electronic drive units provide constant torque, so "if you get a catch, it's almost always a bad one". The safety feature on the Novas is brilliant and clearly the individuals who make this claim never used a Nova, since safety feature basically stops the lathe if it encounters too much resistance (and you can set that to low, medium, high, or off).

I'm by no means a Nova or DVR fanboy, but I do love my lathe and think I made the absolute perfect choice for myself. I also realize, though, that everyone has their own priorities and preferences; all I can do is convey my experiences.

I turned on (i.e. messed up a few pieces of wood on) the Jet and the PM before deciding on the Nova.

[Narayan Nayar]

changing the speeds at 5 rpm increments is as big a deal as changing belts on the jet.

The bed seems smaller on the nova, I haven;t used it so I can't say.

In the previous post I claim that I'm not a DVR fanboy, and I'll stick by that statement :). But I will correct others' statements about the Nova when they are erroneous.

Alex, if you haven't used the DVR, it's hard for me to understand why you'd say changing the speeds at 5rpm increments is as big a deal as changing the belts on the Jet.

I'd agree that changing the belts on the Jet isn't a big deal and frankly shouldn't be a negative against the Jet. But on the Nova, just to set the record straight, you can easily select a preset (there are five presets w/ defaults set at the factory, you can override these presets and save your favorite speeds if you wish), then just hold down the + or - button until you reach your desired speed. You can move in increments as fine as 5rpm if you want, or you can just hold the button down and the speed changes are quick.

I would agree with anyone who says a knob would be a better interface--I like physical controls. But I disagree that holding a button down is the same thing as changing a belt. You can hold a button down while the lathe is still running, and if the piece is vibrating, you have much finer control to find a speed at which that vibration stops.

Nine times out of ten the speed I want is already a preset.

[alex carey]

I think you misunderstood me. I mearly meant that neither of them take a long time and neither of them should be taken as a big disadvantage.

The Jet takes only 15 seconds to change the belt. Hardly a nuisance, especially when you rarely have to do it.

The Nova has 5 presets and changing speeds is hardly an ordeal but really quite simple.

My point was that neither of them are a big deal at all.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Is the belt change on the Jet the same as the Jet mini? I have the mini and it's just opening two doors and moving the belt over. Although it's easy I sometimes find it sort of a pain to get the belt in just the right groove. And as said above it does make you stop the lathe. Thanks guys for all the input.

[Ralph Lindberg]

I see most of the strong and weak points of each lathe have already been posted, but there is one other feature the DVR has that I really like.

If the lathe is off, and you are using a power sander (ie a power disc sander), the lathe-free wheels. This allows you to power sand, with the lathe turning, but you are able to control the rotation speed by how you apply the sander.

But I do really like the "hard catch just stops the lathe" feature also.

[Mike Lipke]

Changing the belt on the 1642 is similar to the mini, but there are only 2 steps, so that makes it easier, and, the parts are a lot bigger, so that makes it easier for my hands to do very quickly.

[Steve Kubien]

Can someone with the DVR answer a question for me? I know how the headstock swivels and how it gets locked down. How far out does that steel rod (for tightening the headstock) stick out? Here;s where I am going with this...

I have been thinking up moving up to the JET 2hp model (from my Nova 1624), because of the length, the increased power, the sliding headstock and the EVS is a nice feature. I do not like the swivelling headstock because I only use it for out-of-balance pieces which are over 16" of the 1624. This makes the lathe rather unstable in my opinion (don't jump all over me, it is only my opinion). Could I pivot the head of the DVR 180 degrees, add an outboard rest similar to the Vicmarc and not worry about the steel tightening rod getting in the way? I was going to do a similar thing withn the JET but for some reason this thread got a lightbulb burning over my head about the DVR. I am thinking that with the Nova cast iron legs I may be on to something and it would be easier since Jet's are not available in Canada.

Thanks,
Steve

[Brian Novotny]

I think nova is on the "cutting edge" and will not go out of businesss. what do you do if something goes wrong????? IMO teknatool has the best customer service of any company in any field. period. They will take care of you. I think that we will only see teknatools line increase as time goes on and just because of there valued pricing, I don't think a thing is lost in quality. That new ornamental machine they have is awesome!!! although I think I could build one out of a metal lathe slide table and indexing rotary table. I have a 1442 with my name on it, but would trade it out for a nova 1642 (if it had the outboard tool rest) anyday.

[Alan Trout]

Steve,

Here is a pic that I took for you. It should work with a chuck on the machine.

Good Luck

Alan

[Steve Kubien]

Yup, that ought to work just fine. Thanks for taking the time. Hmmm, another lathe option to roll with....

Steve

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I really like to turn bowls with the head stock rotated about 30 degrees or so. It lessens the amount you have to bend over the lathe when cutting. I don't know why all lathes don't have this but it may be an alignment issue with the tail stock.

[Richard Madison]

Sounds like it is down to swivel headstock vs. cast iron legs that come in the same box. Belt change is a non-issue. It's easy and many people never change it. I don't. Speed buttons is/are a very minimal issue. You get used to what you have. Outboard (180 degree swivel or slide to the end) turning is possible on either. Some folks like to work at the tail end (with banjo and tool rest on the lathe) because of more comfortable body position, no leaning over the bed. Dunno about that "lathe stops with catch" thing, but a bad catch on the Jet causes the belt to slip and squeal (unless you have it way too tight). Happened to me once a few years ago. Jet and XP owners both like their machines and have little if anything negative to say about them. So there ya go.

Jake, I too would be very interested in those comments by Allen and Bill. Might learn something.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Richard what happens is if you set it to soft and you have a catch the lathe stops. Hit the off button and then turn it back on. It saved my bacon several times when I got heavy handed.

Alan I don't worry about the alignment issue as I use this tool to align it back everytime on the money. MT 2 to MT 2.

[Narayan Nayar]

Bernie, where'd you get that double ended morse taper alignment thingy?

[Alan Trout]

Packard sells them and they also sell them on the Teknatool web site.

Alan

[Bernie Weishapl]

Bernie, where'd you get that double ended morse taper alignment thingy?

At Packard Woodworks.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

This has been a great discussion on a very respectful level. I always like that. Now I have to figure out how much I can spend and which features are the most important to me. Isn't this always the way it goes! Thanks again to all for the great input. Alan

[Wally Dickerman]

Well heres the thing, the Nova doesnt come with a stand, if you look at Alan Trout's stand you can see that it is definitely sturdy. The upside with the nova is that it can swivel where as to get the same effect with the jet you need to slide the headstock down and some how create an outboard tool rest. Leaving all else equal you either have to build an outboard tool rest for the jet or build a stand for the nova. An outboard tool rest is probably easier to make and will allow you to turn to the floor.

I wouldn't even think about the belt changing for the jet. Most people are able to keep it on the same belt the entire time. Others will have to change it only once per turning. Anyways it takes only 15 seconds.

Alex, When you slide the headstock down on a Jet or others you do it to creat a shortbed lathe for turning HF's or for more comfortable bowl turning. Forget about a floor stand unless you want to turn very large pieces.

There are some things that I don't like about swiveling the headstock. You can't use the tailstock. The banjo has a very long reach which IMO isn't good. Some folks claim that they have problems getting the headstock back to a perfect lineup with the tailstock.

I have used both the Nova and the Jet 16 in demos. For me the Jet wins hands down. In that price range it's the best thing out there IMO. I think that a sliding headstock is much better than a swiveling headstock. You have a shortbed lathe and a longbed all in one, with the tailstock always available. My only beef about the Jet is the lack of a real handwheel.

Of course whatever one you happen to own is usually going to be the best in your opinion...I don't have either one. Mine is a Oneway and I do most of my turning on the outboard bed. Great for turning HF's

Wally

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alex, When you slide the headstock down on a Jet or others you do it to creat a shortbed lathe for turning HF's or for more comfortable bowl turning. Forget about a floor stand unless you want to turn very large pieces.

There are some things that I don't like about swiveling the headstock. You can't use the tailstock. The banjo has a very long reach which IMO isn't good. Some folks claim that they have problems getting the headstock back to a perfect lineup with the tailstock.

I have used both the Nova and the Jet 16 in demos. For me the Jet wins hands down. In that price range it's the best thing out there IMO. I think that a sliding headstock is much better than a swiveling headstock. You have a shortbed lathe and a longbed all in one, with the tailstock always available. My only beef about the Jet is the lack of a real handwheel.

Of course whatever one you happen to own is usually going to be the best in your opinion...I don't have either one. Mine is a Oneway and I do most of my turning on the outboard bed. Great for turning HF's

Wally


Wally, Thanks for reminding me of some of the limitations of a swiveling headstock. I have that on my Delta lathe and the banjo does seem "stretched" in that application. It's just not as solid compared to using the headstock in the normal position. Something else to think about. BTW I'm making my hollowing bar as you posted in my "hollowing" post. I've got the end hole drilled and will break the cutter in half and epoxy it in. Thanks for that info.! Alan (in the not so dry heat in Raleigh, NC)

[Jake Helmboldt]

Jake, I would be interested in hearing what their concerns/dislikes were. It may not be of concern to me but I'd like to know anyway. Please Nova owners do not be offended by this as it is just personal preference like many other things in life. You sound like you like your machines regardless.

Alan, as requested here is what Grumbine and Lacer had to say: (sorry in advance to the DVR owners, I'm just passing along the feedback I got on these two lathes. Personally I still find the DVR appealing in many ways)

Bill Grumbine's opinion:
Both of the lathes are good machines. Keep in mind that 16" is the top end for both machines. Also keep in mind that whether you are selling your work or giving it away, most people are not really interested in a 16" bowl.

Of the two lathes I think the Jet is heavier duty and will last longer. Overall the design is more robust, and you will be turning faster
with less work before hand. The stand that is available for the Nova is not worth the money you would spend, and I would avoid it. The Nova has a more compact design, and that would be important if your shop is very tight, or if you don't have a lot of room to devote to the lathe. If you go with the Jet, it would be worth the extra expense to go with the 220v model and get that extra bit of horsepower out of it. I think if there were problems down the road, it would be easier to deal with a company like Jet, which has a large permanent presence here in the states, whereas Nova really only has distributors. Also, if something were to go wrong out of warranty, it would be easier to get the Jet fixed or replace something like the motor or controller from a third party. The DVR head on the Nova is a very unique item, and I would not like to have the trouble of fixing it if something went wrong and Nova was no longer around.

Alan Lacer's opinion:
The Jet is good value for the money, but will not do anything of great weight. If that is the direction you are going the true bowl/vessel lathes with weights of 600 and up are the ticket.

The Nova is one of my least favorite lathes out there for many reasons--and would never recommend those to anyone. There are differences you won't see in the Chinese lathes (which the 1642 falls within): electronics is a huge one, unhardened spindles, are just two huge ones that are question marks.

The sliding head is a good idea, the pivoting head is a marketing ploy--most lathes that do that do not have the mass to withstand the forces (and no tailstock support).

I find many who buy huge capacity lathes and, after doing a few large pieces, return to "normal size bowls" of 10 to 14 inches in diameter.

I thought it interesting that both Alan and Bill noted that bigger capacity is typically not needed beyond those few pieces that one might try to turn.

[Richard Madison]

Thanks Jake. Interesting observation by Alan re. lathe size. When mine was new I did two 15-3/4" x 25" segmented pieces. Since then have done only one piece even close to that size. "Big" requires big wood (or segmenting), and a market for the stuff so it doesn't fill up the house.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Jake, Thank you for posting that. It really gives a much more experienced perspective than I could ever have. These guys have had more lathe time than I'll probably ever have in my life time so the comments carry a lot of weight. I'm beginning to think the Jet may be just right for me but I was thinking of the 1.5 h.p. version that Bill Grunbine advises against. Oh, decisions, decisions..... Thanks again!

[Mike Lipke]

I would never argue with Bill, but I had a 1.5hp Jet 1642, and I loved it.
It never argued with anything I wanted it to do. Had I had a 2hp, maybe I would have liked it even more, but.....

[Richard Madison]

Alan,
I got the 2 hp. just so I would never have to wonder if I should have got the 2 hp. But if 2 is enough for the 3520B, then 1.5 is surely enough for the 1642. Oops, that was no help.

[Larry Marley]

I do like the dial speed control, vs punching a button repeatedly to speed up or slow down. That's just me though.
Our club lathe is a Nova DVR. It is a nice lathe, but most of the people who demo on it complain how long it takes to change speed. The 3520 is popular with many of the club members, so they are used to instant speed changes, just turn the knob. There is no comparison between the Nova and the 3520. That being said, I would choose the Jet vs over the Nova, first for ease of use and more importantly down the road having a lathe that is less expensive to service.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Alan - I also have the 2 hp Jet. Picked the 220 version so that I had plenty of power available - should I ever need it. At the time I turned a lot of bowls and was thinking of picking up a coring system and the 2 hp motor would definitely been needed!

Lots of luck with your decision! The owners of either lathe are happy with their choices - so have to figure you would be happy with either lathe!

[Reed Gray]

Well, I may just as well throw in my 10 cents worth here as well.

First, the sliding headstock and the swivel headstocks, and outboard turning do the same thing for bowl turners; make it so that you don't have to bend over to turn the inside of a bowl. The disadvantage of the pivoting one besides not being able to use the tailstock is the added reach that you need with your banjo. A longer lever, and just barely enough steel to make it solid. I prefer things to be overbuilt rather than under built. Sliding headstock gets my vote. Outboard turning works fine I guess, but my lathe sits in a corner, and outboard isn't an option.

Horse power: Every book I read on motors and horse power said for motors 1 hp and below, 110 volt is fine. For 1 hp and above motors, you need 220. I did have two of my machines (jointer and Performax drum sander) rewired for 220, both had 1.5 hp motors, and both do work a lot better. I can't explain the science behind it, I only observed better preformance.

The bed of the Nova sits flat on the lathe frame, or whatever bench you build for it. This makes chip clearing difficult, and it always falls inbetween the ways of the lathe. You could build it up and if I did that, I would want at least 1 inch of clearance under the ways.

As far as speed changes, as a production turner, the dial is much better than the push button. It would be nice to think that you could use 5 preset speeds, but I do use the entire range of speeds on my dial. No two pieces of wood are the same, and I want the right speed rather than close enough. What I would like to see for belt changing would be a lever type of pulley change kind of like a bicycle has. Release belt tension, push a lever, and retighten. This would take seconds, but I can't invent some thing like that.

As far as outboard tool rest for bigger bowls, you have to consider what you are going to turn. I seldom turn bowls bigger than 16 inches. My reason for stepping up to the Robust from the PM wasn't bigger throw, it was more hp and more torque to help me remove wood faster. If I was going to turn larger than 16 inches on a Nova, I would want an outboard stand rather than the banjo on the Nova. Again, rather overbuilt than just good enough.

As far as bowl coring, 1 hp will work, especially with the Woodcut and Mini and micro McNaughton systems. The Oneway does okay here as well. With the pivoting headstock, you could not use the Oneway or Woodcut.

The Nova is a fine lathe, just not my choice, and there are a lot of choices out there.

robo hippy

[Ralph Lindberg]

Our club lathe is a Nova DVR. It is a nice lathe, but most of the people who demo on it complain how long it takes to change speed. The 3520 is popular with many of the club members, so they are used to instant speed changes, just turn the knob. There is no comparison between the Nova and the 3520. That being said, I would choose the Jet vs over the Nova, first for ease of use and more importantly down the road having a lathe that is less expensive to service.

Larry
Question, have you heard of anyone having to have the motor on the DVR serviced?
I know I haven't.
The circuit board cleaned of dust, but that's true with every electronic lathe I know (including the Jet and the PM)

[Joe Mioux]

How long does a company have to be in existence before it is viewed as a stable company? Teknatool began in 1977.

I ask this in reference to comments made about perceived future service issues if the company wouldn't be around.

joe

[Larry Marley]

Larry
Question, have you heard of anyone having to have the motor on the DVR serviced?
I know I haven't.
The circuit board cleaned of dust, but that's true with every electronic lathe I know (including the Jet and the PM)


Hi Ralph,
I don't know anyone who has replaced the motor. I do remember some one who had to replace the electronics, but don't remember the circumstances, warranty, Etc. My thought on this is, Nova is the single source parts supplier. In addition to naming their own price for the repair parts, if they discontinued this model, or Nova closed their doors you could be stuck. A three phase motor and inverter are commodity parts.

I do know two people who moved to the 3520 after owning the Nova.
All for the same reason, that they wanted to turn larger, and wanted more mass. Kind of like upgrading a sail boat, wanting to pilot more boat and have more mast...

Larry

[Alan Trout]

Mass, rigidity, and stability can be taken care of with the DVR through good stand/base design. I some ways I consider my stand more of a base as it adds significantly to the mass, rigidity and stability of the lathe. My heavy mono-tube design acts more as part of the bed than a stand holding the lathe. It keeps the mass where it’s needed as close to the spindle as possible.

I understand that not everyone has the fabrication skills or equipment needed to build a heavy steel stand but I have seen some amazing craftsmen here that more than capable of a project like this. And other then time the cost of materials is very modest.

Far as dependability of electronics goes I have never been that concerned. There have been very few reports of issues with the electronics in the DVR 3000 and XP.

All of our lathes have single source parts on them. So with any of them if the company goes out of business replacement can be very difficult if not impossible. Teknatool seems to be doing well with a diverse product line that sells well.

Both the Jet 1642 and the DVR XP are very capable lathes. Both have capacities that would service most turners’ needs 99% of the time, and both are fairly priced machines.

Pick a machine that you will feel will service your needs and go have some fun.

Good Luck

Alan

[Ralph Lindberg]

Alan has a good point. But not everything is "builder only"

The circuit boards for the Jet/PM/Robust/Nova all certainly are.

The bearings (probably the most common failure point in any lathe) are not.

The motors in most lathes are not, actually the motors on most stationary power tools are not.

But the DVR motor from Teknatool is almost certainly a custom made motor. But it is not a motor that Teknatool "invented", but they are the only firm I am aware of that has used this large a motor.