Hock blade question

[Tom Godley]

I am going to order a new blade for my Bailey #4.5 and #8 plane tune ups. I was wondering what additional improvement I would get from the chip breaker upgrade.

I am just trying to get good usable planes - I do not need a Porsche - Is the blade upgrade alone the best bang for the buck.


Under what conditions does chatter present itself - is it more of a problem with the larger blade in the #8 or is it more a factor of the wood.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Chatter will arise due to a lose, sloppy, or uneven fit of any of the components that set and hold the blade: frog, base, uneven casting, warped or loose iron, etc..

A thin blade can vibrate in that portion that projects out past the frog. I have stock blades on all my planes and have never experienced it.

A block's lack of flatness can be the culprit

A clogged throat can cause chatter.

Here is an online book by Garrett Hack:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lSVMWpzqfNgC&pg=PA91&dq=Hand+plane+chatter
Prolly worth purchasing if you want to know more.

[Richard Dooling]

You may or may not notice an improvement with the new chip breaker but the replacement iron will itself be much thicker and stiffer than the original iron anyway.

One thing to keep in mind is that a thicker blade and a thicker chip breaker can cause issues with the relationship between the frog, mouth and blade. You will likely need to move the frog and very possibly need to file the mouth more open. I also had an issue with the rectangular adjustment slot on the breaker not matching the original on a Sargent jack plane. It put it at the very limits of the adjustment screw. You can check the critical dimensions here. http://www.hocktools.com/Breakers.htm (http://www.hocktools.com/Breakers.htm)

Personally I bought one replacement chip breaker and don’t really see it as a major player. More important IMO is a flat and solidly mounted frog, a properly honed blade and a depth of cut appropriate to the material. My favorite smoother right now is a #4 type 9 with, I believe, the original iron and breaker.

.

[jerry nazard]

You might check the mouth on the #8 to make sure that the Hock blade will work without having to open it. RE the chipbreaker: I have not noticed a difference one way or another. The blade can make a big difference. I do like the chipbreakers.

[Rob Young]

Other than the slight increase in shipping cost, you can order them separately. Get the blade, hone it and try with the old chip breaker. Make sure you tune up the chip breaker too. If it seems like there might be more room for improvement, then order the chip breaker. Might cost you $10 more in the long run or might save you $$.

I ordered both the blade and breaker for a knock-off copy of a #5 and I've been quite happy. The stock breaker was very thin to begin with so it probably needed to be replaced no matter whose blade I was going to use.

[Wilbur Pan]

It really depends on your chip breaker, as has been mentioned. Some of the old Stanley chipbreakers are in good shape, others not so much. Either way, they can become less useful over time.

The nice thing about the Hock chipbreakers is that you won't have to worry about this issue. And you may not need a Porsche for your tools, but then again, most people don't need handcut dovetailed drawers, either, so I wouldn't worry about that issue.

If you are still worried about having a chipbreaker that you don't "need", Craftsman Studios sells Hock plane blades and chipbreakers at a good price, and with free shipping. The chipbreaker you want is only $25.

[Dan O'Sullivan]

Tom
I just upgraded my 3 and 4 Stanley/Bailey. I replaced the blades with the HC types. In the upgrade effort I decided to change the chipbreakers. This is money well spent. There is room for debate here about the high carbon blade or the A2 blade. I only have one other tool with the A2 blade and I just don't seem to be able to get it as sharp as the high carbon and it takes longer. So I guess you can tell... I'm going to recommend the high carbon blade. I got so fired up after getting the blades and touching them up that I decided to really flatten and polish up the plane soles. They work very well and I am back to building. Good stuff those Hock blades.

[Casey Gooding]

FWIW, I've never had to open the mouth on any of the Stanley planes I've added a Hock blade and chipbreaker to. Come to think of it, I don't think I've had to move the frog either.
I did have to open the mouth of my 151 spokeshave a bit.

[Jacob Mac]

FWIW, I've never had to open the mouth on any of the Stanley planes I've added a Hock blade and chipbreaker to. Come to think of it, I don't think I've had to move the frog either.
I did have to open the mouth of my 151 spokeshave a bit.

How much improvement did you see with your planes after adding the blade and chipbreaker? I am on the fence about either trying to buy some LV BU planes, or just put a new blade and chipbreaker in my old Stanleys. Thanks.

[Casey Gooding]

I saw great improvement. It's hard to tell if it's mostly the blade or the combination of blade and chipbreaker. I almost always change both on my old planes. I feel they take a nicer edge and cut more smoothly than the Stanley blades. All of my most used planes have them.
Buying the blade and chipbreaker is certainly cheaper than a new bevel up plane. If you don't like it, you can always sell the set here or on the bay and make back most of your money.

[Dan O'Sullivan]

Before you go for the BU plane, why don't you back bevel the old Stanley blade you took out of your 45 degree plane? Putting a steeper angle on the blade cut will improve performance on wild grain surfaces. That's been acknowledged in most debates. The bevel up allows you to adjust the angle of attack. The standard plane with a blade adapted to the steeper angle will give you marked performance on birdseye maple and figured walnut. I've tried those two with good results. I'm happy with the wood surface but... I'd like to have one BU plane on the shelf.
I am undecided on which one I would like to have first for smoothing?? the short BU smoother or the BU jack? When I have a few more jelly beans in the jar, I'll take a stab at one of them.

[Tom Godley]

Thanks all for the info -- I called them yesterday -- out of the office until next week :(

[David Keller NC]

Thanks all for the info -- I called them yesterday -- out of the office until next week :(

Tom - There's lots of places to get Hock Stanley replacement blades. One source is The Best Things. You may also be able to get one at your local Woodcraft store - mine carries the common sizes for Stanelys.

In regards to improved performance, my take on this is that all other things being equal (same plane, tuned with a flat sole and a well-mating frog and lever cap), I didn't see all that much difference in the planed surface between a Hock blade and the stock Stanely in my antiques.

However - and for me this was absolutely key, the honing on a Hock blade lasted far longer than the edge on the original Stanley blades. Most of the Stanleys in my possession are very soft, and the edge seems to just wilt when exposed to something really hard like maple. Not so with the Hocks. I don't know how he does it, but Ron Hock seems to have figured out a way to make a blade both hard and tough.

In the final analysis, I feel that the Hock blades definitely improved the performance of my old Stanleys, but that's because the edge lasts far longer, and on average the plane is much sharper when I pick it up to use it than it would be otherwise.

[Rusty Elam]

Pretty much whats been said above, I have Hock blades and chipbreakers on my 7, 5, & 4 and it really is night and day difference (particularly how long the edges last).
Now that said I also just got the LV BU smoother with the extra 50 degree blade and all I can say is WOW, this thing is great.
My #4 is set up really well and will probably work just as well as the BU smoother on good grain, but on the gnarly stuff theres no comparison (using the standard blade angle).
Also I have not had to open the mouth on any of my Stanleys, but I do have to reset the frog and the screw on the lever cap.
Rusty

[Rob Luter]

I have Hock blades paired with original Stanley chipbreakers on my Sweetheart era #3, #4, and #5. My #4 1/2 is from a little later period and I have the Hock blade with Hock chipbreaker installed. I wanted as much support as possible for the wider blade. All perform exceptionally well.

[Tom Godley]

I ordered the blades from Woodcraft -- free ship w/ a discount. They do not sell the chipbreaker for the #8 so I only purchased the one for 4.5.


We will see how it all goes with the tune up on both of them.

[Jim Koepke]

Dave, Rusty & Ron,

Your posts do not mention whether you are using the A1 or the HC blades.

I have the HC blades. They do seem to hold up a little longer than the Stanley blades, but not a whole lot longer. The A1s would likely do better.

For three of my Hock blades a new chip breaker was also purchased. On my most recent purchase for a #8, the old chip breaker was used. Either way, it all works well.

If the old chip breaker is good, it will work fine with a new blade. A new chip breaker may come in handy if one wants to be able to change blades quickly or does not want to take the time to tune up an old chip breaker.

jim

[Rusty Elam]

Jim I have the HC blades also and as you said they seem to hold the edge much longer than my original Stanley blades, but not nearly as long as the A2 blades on The LV stuff.
Honestly I have not used the Hock blades without the chipbreaker so I cant really speak to that.
The 1st one I got because my original chipbreaker was pitted and bent pretty bad. When I was ordering it from Craftsman Studio I realized that on orders over $75 you got free shipping. So when I bought the others I figured if I was getting $10 off the chipbreaker (in essence) it seemed like a no brainer. Plus they were having a sale on the Hock stuff at the time so I just rigged the other 2 planes I use the most.
Rusty