Help Fast!--Should I buy this table saw? Grizzly 1023

[Angus MacGyver]

Ok, I am upgrading a really really awful table saw. I've been keeping my eyes out for a good saw. I found a Grizzly 1023 that I can buy for $375, but it isn't in pristine shape. The top is a bit rusted, and the fence is crap. However, I am pretty handy - the rust is easily removed, and a fence is easily purchased. I do have 220 to my shop.

I have not seen the saw in-person yet. I have only had one call with the current owner.

I am really looking for some fast help here. I need to make a decision tomorrow (Wednesday) in order to not lose it.

I have been doing some research and the Grizzly 1023 seems to be a great great saw. However, I cannot tell from the pictures if this is a 1023S, 1023, 1023Z or what.

- What is your opinion
- What should I ask the owner?
- What should I look for when I look at it in person?
- what kind of saw is this?

I am including pictures below from the current owner.

THANK YOU in advance!
Pete

[george wilson]

That amount of rust will clean off surprisingly well. The table won't be polished,but it won't be pitted either.

[John Harden]

I'd be wary. That's not much less than half of a new one. Typical asking price for used is 1/2 new. That one is in tough shape to be asking that much. I wouldn't give them more than $100 for it, if I had the need.

Questions I'd ask would be:


Age of saw (check motor plate)
Typical use (home use, pro shop?)
Why the neglect? Who let's their cast iron surfaces rust like that? Be persistent here and make them tell you why they chose to just let it rust over.
What's wrong with the fence? New is at least $200 for a good one.
Why are they selling?
Ask them what's wrong with the saw? Do they have any gripes?
Are they the original owner?
How does it run?
Have them plug it in and watch it run. Run some test pieces through it.

Rust is a very bad sign as it means moisture has gotten to it. Hard to tell from the pics as it could be only light surface rust caused by humidity. Check the insides carefully. Water or too much humidity on the inner workings can wreck havoc. Is there rust on the trunnions? How about the screws for height and tilt? Rusted? Do they work smoothly through their full range of travel?

If the motor's shot, what will that cost you? Let it run for at least ten minutes and put your hand on the motor.

That looks to be a right tilt saw. Is this what you want? Nearly all cabinet saws today are left tilt. Safer and more practical.

Bring a dial gauge and check arbor runout. Should be less than .002". Rusted arbor bearings fail quickly.

In my opinion there are too many bargains out there in this economy to be paying that kind of money for a saw that at the very least has been neglected.

Sorry to be so negative, but you asked for my opinion.

Regards,

John

[C Scott McDonald]

Have to go with John on this one and take a pass on it.

[Will Hon]

I just payed $550 for a 1023SL and it was significantly newer than that model (5 years old), and had been in storage for the last three. It also came with an Excalibur overhead arm guard/dust collector, and had a 7' Shop Fox Fence in excellent shape. So, with that i mind, I would think that $375 would be quite pricey.... $200-$250 max

[Kyle Iwamoto]

My friend picked up a used Uni for 600. Working, not rusty. Not a bies fence, but oh well. The 375 and 200 for a fence and you're already at 575, and haven't cleaned up the saw..... I'd pass and wait for one that works and looks better than that.

Just my .02.

[Guy Belleman]

The trunion and inside guts picture looks okay. The paint inside and out still looks intact. The belts look fair. Actually that fence face can be repaired fairly easily. Most of the faces are just glued on. A new slippery, polyacrylic, piece can be attached. Of course, you can always buy a new fence. I saw a Biesmeyer on craigslist for $100 not too long ago, more often about $200.

The saw does appear to be an older model. I had a G1023 and it was a great saw. It appears that no accessories are included with the saw. Given the condition of the saw, I would suspect they might not be usable either. The surface rust will clean up. The fence rails can be repainted and the fence fixed.

Opinion: if it runs, smoothly, offer $150-200 as is
Questions to ask: What is your lowest price? Is there a miter gauge? Can you help load it?
Look for: smooth start up and shutdown, no slop in trunion and geared mechanisms, any missing parts, at motor mounts to see that the bracket hasn't been welded, or adapted to a non-original motor, wiring looks original
What kind of saw is it: a good one, when new

If you do fix/clean it up, you could probably resell it for a nice amount to put down on a new one.

Good luck.

[Curt Harms]

Grizzly's web site is down right now, but Amazon has the 1023S for $1075. The 1023S would be the closest current offering to this saw. A new saw would include a new fence but apparently no motor cover. The top rust appears to be easily dealt with, not deep or pitted. There appears to be no motor cover; you'll need one if we plan any sort of dust collection. The last I knew they weren't expensive, <$50. The existing fence appears to be a shop fabricated bies clone. New faces on the fence wouldn't be a huge undertaking but whether the fence is worth the effort is a question. Corrosion on the internals such as tilt & elevation mechanism, arbor assembly would put a damper on things for me. If the top didn't receive any sort of protective treatment it might not take much time or adverse conditions to reach that state. The internals should be either painted or have grease/oil on them so there might be little or no corrosion there. Work the tilt and elevation controls. If there's no power available to run it I don't know how you'd evaluate the motor condition.

Also a possible bargaining point-all new saws are required to have a riving knife. This one does not and as of today there's no way to retrofit a true riving knife. It also depends on your local situation. Some places seem to have an abundance of cabinet saws for sale, other places do not.

[Mike Cruz]

My rule on an old machine...decent shape, good or better working order, looks--not the prettiest, but will do...33 to 40% of new machine. This assumes NO parts HAVE to be replaced. $1000 machine new...33%+ $333. If you end up having to replace the motor...$200-$300. Like one other person said, no fence? another couple of hundred.

What you need to determine, is what HAS to be replaced, deduct that from what your TOP budget is for the saw, and see if you can work in some wiggle room for what you WANT to add/replace (belts, etc). The more work YOU need to do, the lower the price.

[Don Jarvie]

Any older machine is going to need some work. As many have said make sure nothing is broken or missing. Make sure none of the insides have been welded or appear broken.

Expect to have to take it apart somewhat to clean it and lube up the arbor, lift mechanism, etc. Maybe replace the arbor bearings.

The show stopper could be if the motor is fried. A good replacement can run a few hundred but the bearings can easily be replaced also.

300 hundred would be a good price.

[Rod Sheridan]

John Harden summed it up well, I'd avoid this machine unless you can get it for $100 to $200 dollars, and it runs well.

It also seems to be missing a splitter and guard, so add that to the price.

To put it perspective I recently sold a General 8" jointer and 14" planer for 1/2 of current new cost. They looked brand new, and came with original sales receipts, manuals and tools.

This saw should go for maybe 10% of new cost.

Regards, Rod.

[Chip Lindley]

Bargains in used machinery are like Real Estate!! In pricing an older machine, one must factor in LOCATION! Also, the law of Supply And Demand is alive and well! There may be a glut of Grizzlys in Chicagoland, but some items come along very seldom in rural America.

Paying a little Xtra for a machine within a decent driving distance speaks to a guys wallet! The closer the better! It costs me $60 for fuel and an Arthur Bryant's (BBQ) lunch every time I go to KC for a *bargain*! St. Louis is a bit closer with Fudruckers's (gormet burgers), or all of Dago Hill (Italian) running up my bargain tab! OF course Springfield/Branson has Lambert's Cafe (home of the throw'd rolls) Closer would be better but not nearly as *yummy*!

But the fact is, most machinery I have bought was at least a 2 or 3 hour drive away! I was happy to get it at the price I paid! The cost of fuel (and lunch) was all worth it!

The worst *bargain* I ever bought was a 24" Grizz sander @ $900! Very worn conveyor! Would not track well! Cover missing off the mag starter! Worth about $650 in all reality! But, I needed a sander and they come along very seldom in mid MO! (I've seen about 4 others listed in 2 years) time! I could have waited and waited until this Spring and bought a newer nicer Grizz DS with the thick conveyor and micro adjustable rear drum for $800, BUT I fixed up the older machine, and have done LOTS of panel sanding in 2 years. Meanwhile, I bought other Nice used machines I needed instead of upgrading the ol' Grizz!

Remember that most sellers will haggle a bit!...unless the item is listed as FIRM! Sometimes haggling close-by gets a woodworker what he really wants, at a price he can live with! A Gloat even! Personally, I would offer $250..not a penny over $300, IF you really need a Griz Cabinet Saw.

Freight shipping negates getting much of a bargain when purchasing a heavy machine from some far away exotic place like East L.A. and having it delivered to rural Missouri. (But...IF you live in East L.A. you're in LUCK....sorta!)