More wide belt application advice needed

[Richard Link]

I've decided to make the plunge and replace my 22-44 drum sander with a small wide belt from Grizzly. I've decided to get the G0527 18" wide belt after watching the forum conversations for a long time on this topic. I have a bit of experience with the drum sander but absolutely none with wide belts, so I have a few extremely basic questions for the knowledgeable folks out there. My applications for the wide belt are primarily:

(1) Flattening of glued up doors and panels and general surface finishing to decrease the amount of random orbit or hand sanding necessary.

(2) Thicknessing and removal of tool marks from shop made veneers.

Questions:

(a) Recommendation of grits for these applications? I used to hate changing out the belts on my drum sander so I tended to leave a mid range grit in the thing (120 usually). With the wide belts ease of belt changes, should I be purchasing a series of different belts and moving through the grits (ala random orbit or hand sanding)? Do you all change the grits all the time on your wide belts or just leave them set with generally one grit all the time? (maybe just have an 80 grit and a 120 grit belt).

(b) Is it a good idea to use those rubber cleaning pads on a wide belt sander? Those are the pads that you run through the sander to remove the pitch and debris. I've used them for belt sanders but is this a common practice with wide belts? I've heard of people washing the belts with simple green etc. (is that better?).

(c) Any recommendations on specific belt manufacturers? Grizzly has a pretty limited selection (going up only to 150). Cloth vs. paper backing? Do folks favor buying the cloth and washing or just replacing with more paper belts?

(d) I understand that wide belts last longer than the abrasives used on drum sanders. How much longer? Is it dramatically better? 2X, 10X?


Thanks in advance.

Rick

[Peter Quinn]

A: Widebelts ease of belt changing? Who told you wide belts were easy to change? I use a 38" widebelt daily at work and "easy" is not one of the words I would use to describe changing belts, nor is pleasant. I'd rather change grits on my drum at home. That said, maybe smaller belts are easier to change?

Anyway, 90% of what we process is run at 100G, then ROS from 80G through desired highest grit for application at hand, usually 120G or 150G. We rarely widebelt at grits beyond 120 and even 120 is rare. We do throw 80G on occasionally for heavier stock removal, and even have a few 60G belts for very heavy thicknessing requirements that can't be processed on a planer. We make a variety of millwork from cabinets, panel systems, passage and exterior doors, stair treads, counter tops. With most decent glue ups in most species 100G works well.

B: Cleaning pads are good, they will give your belts more life, and good belts are not cheap. We use paper backed as cloth backing seems to perform poorly on our machine. Not sure about the simple green, never tried it.

C: Can't remember who makes the ones we use.

d: not sure the wide belt abrasives last any longer than those on my drum sander on a LF basis. Maybe a bit due to the oscillation. I have had pretty good life on my drum paper, and I have seen a wide belt get trashed in one use due to glue lines or over aggressive sanding.

[Jay Brewer]

The wide belt sander you are buying is very easy to change the belt. Turn the air off, turn a lever 1/4 turn that holds the large washer to the frame, remove old belt , install new belt, washer and lever. Takes about 30 seconds once you get the hang of it. After you replace the belt you need to check the oscillation to make sure its going from side to side at the same speed. Very easy operation.

I only stock 100 grit and 220 grit. I use the 100 for leveling glue ups, RP doors ect. I almost always switch to a 220 and make a pass or two, then follow with 150 on the RO sander.

I haven't tried the cleaning pads that you send through the sander, at $60 it depends how long they last. If you don't try and remove to much material, the belts last a really long time.

I buy all my belts from Sandpaper America. I have been happy with their service and price, around $20 a belt.

Belts last longer than a drum wrap because there is more surface area. Most problems with drum paper wear is because of burning. The longer belt gives it some time to cool before it makes contact with the board again.

The 100 grit seems to last forever, the 220 about half as long, but I don't try to clean them, just throw them out, at $20 a belt, my time is better spent working than trying to get more life out of a belt.

Enjoy your new sander, Jay

[Dino Drosas]

Before you buy your sander, take a look at the Northstate 16" open end sander. This is the exact machine that Powermatic also sells at a much better price. I could not be happier with a piece of equipment - both quality wise and performance. The Northstate is sold by: www.leneavesupply.com (http://www.leneavesupply.com)

Klingspore makes a first class quality belt as with all the rest of their abrasives.

[Scott T Smith]

The belts were fairly easy to change on my former Grizzly 15", and my current EMC 37" WBS. I stock a variety of grits, from 60 - 180, and change them as needed for the project.

I have the cleaning pad, and really like it. It is much faster than removing the belt and hosing it down.

Most of the folks that use WBS's commercially recommend the Klingspore belts.

Scott

[J.R. Rutter]

(a) I stick with 120/180 on my 2-head sander. The 120 is just rough enough to handle glue as long as it isn't really sloppy. Angle the part as much as possible for the rough pass, then go straight through for finish passes. You can skip one grit, but don't try to remove anything beyond the scratches left by the previous grit. All stock removal is done with the rough belt. My 44" sander takes about 2 minutes per head for belt changes, but I only change once a month or so...

(b) I have not tried the rubber pad thing in a long time. If I remember correctly, you can squeeze out a bit more use, but I never had much luck beyond that.

(c) We settled on paper belts from SIA - good price to performance

(d) Used sensibly, I get probably 5x the life compared to the drum sanders that I have had.

[Jeff Duncan]

Different machines I guess will all have slightly different ways of changing the belts. Having said that the 2 widebelts I've run in the past both were very quick and easy to change the belts. They were also both on the other end of the pricing spectrum from Grizzly so??
I've never heard of washing the belts? Maybe if you do a lot of work on sappy softwoods....but I really couldn't say.
You'll get a lot more life out of the belts since they have more surface area and run much cooler. How much....that will depend on how you use them. My suggestion would be to start with 100/120/150 belts and see where you go from there. Most things will still need ROS after the widebelt so I wouldn't look for anything courser than 180 grit anyway.
Also couldn't help you with the cleaning pads, we never used those either.

good luck,
JeffD