Types of stains? Multiple coats? How Long?

[Doug Hobkirk]

QUESTION 1 - Old Masters lists 3 types of stain in 15 colors: Gel, Penetrating, and Wiping. I've used a couple of their Gel stains and they seem to work fine although there seems to be more of a residual shine after it has been wiped off. I've also used lots of Minwax (and a few others) penetrating stains (which I brush or wipe on depending on convenience) and they seem to work just fine.

I often wish I could have the surface I am refinishing accept the stain better. I deal with mostly refinishing projects, many sanded down to bare wood before staining - I often cannot get the finish anywhere near as dark as the original finish. I will be experimenting with dyes and making "stains" out of paint, but I do not have any experience with those yet.

Is there any advantage of one type of stain over the other? The text of my second question eliminates what I thought was the main advantage of Gel.

QUESTION 2 - I find that a second coat of any stain, including the gel stains, has no discernible effect of the finish, even though I have read and been told that it should. The Zar stain brochure says to sand before the next coat but I did not find that helped. Any suggestions or comments?

QUESTION 3 - How long should I leave the stain on before I wipe it off? My experiments seem to show that I can wipe it off just about instantly, although I have not made much of an effort to study the effect, or to compare the results on different types of wood. And how long before I can apply shellac or poly?

THANKS!

[Scott Holmes]

Doug,

Don't change your stain just yet...

First thing to change is the way you remove old finish... Sanding is not a good choice, it leaves residue finish in the pores; this causes problems for the stain. Sanding pushes the old finish into the pores and clogs them...

Use a chemical stripper (the "green" citrus strippers and not very effective) with methylene chloride that is the active ingedient. Brush it on and leave it alone... many people make the mistake or brushing it back and forth... it has a waxy substance that forms a slight film so the methylene chloride doesn't evaporate let it do the work. After 10-20 minutes; depending on the existing finish, you should be able to remove 95% of the old finish. Repeat to get the last 5%.

Now you can lightly sand, if needed, and do your refinishing.

[Todd Carpenter]

Hi Doug,

Good to hear from a fellow refinisher. I deal mainly in those as well.

Question 1 - It depends on what you're trying to achieve. I have found over the years many older peices really were bits and pieces of wood and when stained looked terrible - more like Frankenstein's monster than fine furniture. In those cases, I've found Gel to be better for getting a "base" color - and then I would tint my topcoats really to hide the lousy wood underneath. Some peices have been absolute jewels hiding under some really lousy finishes - in those cases, the penetrating stains I've found really make the piece pop, and of course, some can stand on their own with just a BLO to bring out the natural beauty and then top coating. I've recently starting to get into glazes - but I don't have much to offer here, I've just got started.

Question 2 - I've found that also. In these cases when I want something a shade or two darker, dyes have been the best choices for me. I prefer the aniline dyes mixed with denatured alchohol. You can use whatever you prefer here, and then stain on top of that - just remember, if you use a water based dye, you'll want an oil based stain...

Question 3 - I haven't found the length of time on refinishing projects to matter much. On new wood it seems to, but not on the old timers. In any case, they'll need to dry for at least 8 hrs.

HTH
Todd

[Scott Holmes]

Doug,

Sorry I didn't address your other questions...

Q2. That is because stains have a binder to hold it in place, this binder (thin varnish) seals the wood so that subsequent coats can't penetrate. Dye on the other hand has no binder; additional coats will continue to darken the wood. Also wiping the dye with a rag dampened with the correct solvent for the dye will lighten the color.

Q3. When you use a chemical stripper and get all the old finish out of the wood it will make a difference the longer you leave it the darker it will get to a point then it does not good. 20 minutes is about the limit, depending on the type of wood you are staining.