rabbet plane - block vs shoulder

[Thomas Crawford]

For general use (rabbets, 90 degree corners, etc) - do you prefer a rabbet block plane or shoulder plane? Just wondering what you think is the overall most useful for your work. My long-term answer is of course to get them all but I need to start with one :)

I'm considering the following:

LV Medium Shoulder Plane
LV Bullnose Plane
LN Rabbet Block Plane
LN Skew Rabbet Block Plane
Old Stanley #140(?) Skew Rabbet Block Plane
Old Stanley #10 1/2 Rabbet Plane
Old Stanley #75 Bullnose
Old Stanley #92/93/94

Also some pricing guidance on the Stanley's #140 and #10 1/2 would be appreciated.

[Joe Cunningham]

I have an old moving filister plane I use for rabbets (wooden side-escapement plane). The 'moving' bit doesn't work, so I rig up a fence on the workpiece and do it that way. It really works great at hogging off the material. I tend to clean up the rabbet (if needed) with my LN skew block plane.

A shoulder plane doesn't have the nicker, so doing cross-grain work is more challenging. You can do it if you define the cut with a marking knife along the fence before each pass, or if you use a saw to cut across the fibers. Plus they come in useful for other hand work. I have the LV med w/ the A1 blade and it works great.

The LN skew block plane has a nicker and you can take the side off, but if I had to do it over again, I think I might save up and get the LV skew rabbet plane. Of course when I bought the LN the skew rabbet hadn't been released yet.

[David Keller NC]

For general use (rabbets, 90 degree corners, etc) - do you prefer a rabbet block plane or shoulder plane? Just wondering what you think is the overall most useful for your work. My long-term answer is of course to get them all but I need to start with one :)

I'm considering the following:

LV Medium Shoulder Plane
LV Bullnose Plane
LN Rabbet Block Plane
LN Skew Rabbet Block Plane
Old Stanley #140(?) Skew Rabbet Block Plane
Old Stanley #10 1/2 Rabbet Plane
Old Stanley #75 Bullnose
Old Stanley #92/93/94

Also some pricing guidance on the Stanley's #140 and #10 1/2 would be appreciated.

In my opinion, "which should I get first?" sensitively depends on what you intend to use it for. The skew-blocks and rabbet blocks do not work well on tenon shoulders, in my opinion, though they can be pressed into service for the purpose. The reason is that the low profile makes gripping the plane to work on a tenon shoulder much more difficult than using a shoulder plane that extends beyond the length of the tenon.

However, I don't care for the use of a shoulder plane to work rabbets, cross-grain dados, and the bevels on a raised panel. IMO, the skew-block excels at creating cross-grain and long-grain rabbets - much more so than the rabbet block or a shoulder plane, which can tear out when you encounter a situation that forces you to plane against the grain (this happens fairly often on raised panels).

Personally, I think the LN rabbet blocks are more versatile if you're working small to medium sized furniture parts than the dedicated rabbet planes (like the LV skew rabbets, the Stanley #278s, and wooden moving fillisters). They're not as comfortable to use on big jobs, where the larger planes excel, but it's tough to use the larger planes on small parts like box and small drawer bottoms.

If I could choose only one, I think I'd go for the LN rabbet block with the new circular knicker option, and plan on a shoulder plane in the future if you want to work tenon shoulders with a plane (many, including me, don't - we prefer a chisel).

[Frank Drew]

My most useful plane for rabbeting is the Record #778; it will also crossgrain trim a tenon and endgrain trim a shoulder. I have a very nicely made older English Bronze and rosewood infill shoulder plane, which does great work in that application, but, still, the Record, with its scoring knife, depth gauge and fence, is more useful in more situations.

[Thomas Crawford]

My immediate need is to clean up an uneven tenon shoulder on a leg for my Roubo bench (1.5" x 5.5" end grain), and then clean up the long stretchers for the bench (1.5" x 60"). My top is almost glued up and I'm ready to assemble the base now when I get those cleaned up.

My future projects include the Stickley sideboard from the last Woodworking Mag, some bookcases and other casework with drawers - so lots of dovetails, dado's and rabbets coming up in 4/4 stock.

I am trying to fill out my plane collection to do dado's and rabbet's. At this point I am definitely getting the LV Router Plane, and strongly leaning toward the LV plow plane (I am tired for looking for a complete Stanley #46 for a decent price).

If I decide not to get the plow plane, could I just make the rabbets with the router plane and fence w/chisels for now? Then I could afford the rabbet block and shoulder plane. Basically I have about $600 left that I can spend.

[David Keller NC]

"If I decide not to get the plow plane, could I just make the rabbets with the router plane and fence w/chisels for now? Then I could afford the rabbet block and shoulder plane. Basically I have about $600 left that I can spend."

It is very possible to simply use chisels to clean up tenon shoulders. I occasionaly use a shoulder plane for the purpose, but it's usually when I've made an error and wiped out my kifed guage line and need a straight sole to re-establish a straight tenon shoulder.

You can make rabbets with the LV router plane and fence, just not all that wide of a rabbet. Of course, you can use multiple fence settings to make wider rabbets than the 1/4" blade that comes with the tool, but that would be very slow indeed.

My choice for making "rabbets from scratch" (i.e., not just cleaning up a router-formed rabbet) is typically a wooden moving fillister plane. If you don't like wooden planes, then my choice would probably be the LV skew rabbet, the LN skew block plane, or a wooden plow, in that order. One can buy a good wooden moving fillister for about $100, but watch out - I would buy one of these from a dealer that you trust. You can get one from e-bay or the flea market for a lot less, but some wooden planes are unusuable and nearly uncorrectable. These are typically ones with replaced blades, incorrect wedges, severely warped stocks, etc...

One thing I'll note is that the plow plane has one function that you really can't substitute another tool for easily - that's cutting grooves parallel, but not part of, the edge of the board. It's possible to use an unfenced wooden dado for the purpose with the addition of a nailed or clamped on straightedge, and you can even use a router plane if the groove's fairly narrow, but either method is really slow compared to a well-tuned plow plane.

[David Keller NC]

Thomas - One thing I didn't think to ask, but since your budget is fixed, I would broaden your consideration of your tool set a little further than the planes. In particular, one will benefit greatly from a good marking gauge like the Tite-Mark, a good, thin, marking knife like the Blue Spruce or Chester Toolworks. When doing dovetails for drawers, a small, very accurate engineer's square is most helpful, as is an inexpensive dovetail marker.

[Jim Koepke]

For general use (rabbets, 90 degree corners, etc) - do you prefer a rabbet block plane or shoulder plane? Just wondering what you think is the overall most useful for your work. My long-term answer is of course to get them all but I need to start with one :)

I'm considering the following:

LV Medium Shoulder Plane
LV Bullnose Plane
LN Rabbet Block Plane
LN Skew Rabbet Block Plane
Old Stanley #140(?) Skew Rabbet Block Plane
Old Stanley #10 1/2 Rabbet Plane
Old Stanley #75 Bullnose
Old Stanley #92/93/94

Also some pricing guidance on the Stanley's #140 and #10 1/2 would be appreciated.

Some times, the easiest way to get through the list is by eliminating those that may not work for what is being done.

For me, the #75 Bullnose and the #90 Bullnose are not very versatile. There is not enough metal in front of the blade to get good registration to the work. The #75 is difficult to set up at best.

The #140 is a good plane, but sharpening the blade to the correct angle is a challenge and if you buy a used one, chances are it has been skewed up. A quick look at closed auctions show the price all over the place from about $40 to $170.

The #10-1/2 is a bit on the big side and expensive compared to a Stanley #78 or Record #778. Same for the rabbet block planes.

The LV medium shoulder plane and the Stanley #92, 93 & 94 are different tools for the same job. I have a Stanley #93 and like it even with its little quirks. The LV shoulder planes are preferred by many and if I had one, I am sure it would become favored over the #93.

In your price range there are a few planes that could be considered and leave a little money in your pocket.

The shoulder plane, LV or old Stanley, is a specialty plane that when one needs one it is nice to have. The LV is about $180.

A Record #778 is about $200. This would be a fine plane for rabbets and other similar work. A used Record or Stanley would likely be a lot less. I almost never reach for mine. Instead, a Stanley #45 is used for rabbeting. The #46 may actually be a bit easier to use. One has never been in my hands. But maybe someday one will be mine. The #45 is also great for cutting slots for drawers or box bottoms.

For dados, I use a chisel, the edges are scribed with a knife. Once the dado is started the edge is cut with a wide chisel, then a chisel can be used bevel down to take a shaving just like it were a plane. Especially stopped dados are easier to do this way. A router plane is handy for getting a flat bottom. Also, side rabbet planes like the Stanley #98 & 99 are helpful for cleaning up the sides. My method is to use a slightly undersized chisel to cut the slot, then sneak up on the size with the side rabbets.

jim

[Sean Hughto]

Here here. Chisels are how I do it too. With a knifed/wheel gauge line, it's not very difficult to pare away any waste you left with the handsaw, not to mention that you can undercut them slightly at the same time.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3132/3116548915_f192b790a2.jpg

I find chisels are great for lots of delicate fitting operations that are never in the magazines.

[Thomas Crawford]

Speaking of chisels....

Has anyone used the Mk2 Bevel Edge Ashley Iles chisels from tools for working wood? (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IL-100-40.XX&Category_Code=)

[Bill Houghton]

The #75 is difficult to set up at best.

If someone offers you a Stanley No. 75 or similar plane, thank him/her very politely and change the subject. In my experience, they are very difficult to use with any comfort.

I did modify mine to make it more comfortable - see picture in the link at http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=973482#poststop. This upgrades it from a dreadful tool to a merely mediocre one. I haven't found any best use for it except cleaning paint globs off house siding and trim when repainting.

Not that I don't think it's a great tool or anything...

[Sean Hughto]

I have a 75 in near perfect shape from SW era, but I too have never found it useful or particularly capable. It may as well be a chisel plane for all the good that "mouth" is.

[glenn bradley]

I passed on the bull nose planes and ended up with a LV med shoulder plane. A large one would come in handy but, not often enough to earn its keep. Chisels will do the work but I generally shoulder plane and then chisel from a flat reference surface to undercut. As for marking knives, an X-acto with a heavy blade has been working fine for me.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for the idea Bill.

Not sure that will make my #75 any more useful, but I can try. Maybe give it to one of my grand sons. That might turn them off to wood working though. I have had a few of them come in piles of parts and other lots of parts deals. There were a lot of knock offs made.

jim

[Bill Houghton]

I have a 75 in near perfect shape from SW era, but I too have never found it useful or particularly capable. It may as well be a chisel plane for all the good that "mouth" is.

For some reason, the 75 was made with the front portion of the sole higher than the rear. Patrick Leach, at any rate, suggests this was intentional and not just poor quality control. When I showed this to my uncle, thinking I was going to have to sand down the entire sole, he removed the front piece - which, as 75 owners know, rests along the top of the main body - and filed the main body where the front piece casting rests to bring it down. Result: the front portion of the sole is coplanar with the rear. It improves performance slightly.

[Danny Thompson]

Speaking of chisels....

Has anyone used the Mk2 Bevel Edge Ashley Iles chisels from tools for working wood? (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IL-100-40.XX&Category_Code=)


I recently picked up the 2" wide version to complement my set of LN bevel edge chisels. The largest available LN is 1", and I have been wanting a wider chisel for paring. So, when I saw the review in Popular Woodworking and competitive price (currently $24 - $57 ea.), I bit.

Take this from someone who is borderline in love with his LN bevel edge chisels . . . the Ashley Iles Mk2 is a GREAT CHISEL! The 2-incher is a monster, but well-balanced and easy to use.

The blade is surprisingly thin. Think about the brass back of a dovetail or a carcase saw. I was making a handle as part of a Gramercy kit and had drilled out the narrow slot in the handle where the back sits. To smoth and tune the slot, I reached for the Ashley Iles Mk2. It was perfect for the job.

Not only was the blade thin enough to fit in the slot, but it was balanced well enough that I could control the cut with one hand. Add to that a factory edge that was incredibly sharp and you have a chisel capable of taking fine, controlled shavings right out of the box. What more could you ask?

If you want a quality chisel, you should give the AI MK2 serious consideration.

[Thomas Crawford]

Well, thought I'd reply back with what I decided to get:

Stanley #78 rabbet plane
Stanley #71 router plane
Ashley Iles Mk2 bench chisels (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1)
Lie-nielsen dovetail saw
Lie-nielsen rip carcase saw 16"
Blue Spruce marking knife and awl combo
Titemark wheel gauge

I tried my best to plan based on what I'm going to building. I decided to try to do as much as possible with the chisels and saws to develop my skills with those before I buy many other tools. I probably shouldn't splurge on the Blue Spruce stuff but they are too beautiful to pass up.

[Billy Chambless]

Well, thought I'd reply back with what I decided to get:

Stanley #78 rabbet plane
Stanley #71 router plane
Ashley Iles Mk2 bench chisels (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1)
Lie-nielsen dovetail saw
Lie-nielsen rip carcase saw 16"
Blue Spruce marking knife and awl combo
Titemark wheel gauge

I tried my best to plan based on what I'm going to building. I decided to try to do as much as possible with the chisels and saws to develop my skills with those before I buy many other tools. I probably shouldn't splurge on the Blue Spruce stuff but they are too beautiful to pass up.

I think you're on the right track -- those are all tools that will end up being used on almost every project. As for the Blue Spruce -- good chisels are a lifetime investment, and a joy to work with.