Walnut finishing ideas...

[Jim Kappel]

So the LOML is starting to consider how she wants my project finished. It's an armoire that will be used as an entertainment center.

Here's the scoop, she likes very dark wood. I was planning to do a more orange or umber look. Oh well. I'm now looking for ways to give the piece a nice dark, yet rich look, while trying to even out the sapwood/heartwood.

Any ideas?

Jim

[Prashun Patel]

Look into using a garnet shellac or brown aniline dye. On walnut, either will give the effect yr looking for...

[Todd Burch]

I like a Red Mahogany finish on Walnut. Very rich looking.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Dyes work great, especially to even out color variations. I used Transtint on a Walnut kitchen table I made... I was in a similar situation- I wanted something that would show off the beautiful walnut I used, but she wanted the dark "pottery barn" look... and she won.

I like dye because you can dilute it until you reach your desired color, and if you don't like it, you can use bleach to remove it. Just be aware that if you use a water based finish over it and brush it on, your brush will pull some of the dye up...

Btw, I'm no finishing expert by any means, so take what I say with a grain of salt!!!

[Chris Padilla]

I'm right in the middle of using and NGR dye (Solar Lux by Behlen) on my walnut Tansu (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92396). I ended up mixing chocolate and reddish walnut and really need to even everything out. It has worked great. I used the "Hickory" color which turned out to be too dark and so I diluted it with their retarder and now I have a very nice even color throughout the Tansu. I'll have to get to posting pics soon.

After the dye, I applied an oil/varnish mix that was tinted with a dark pigment (I used Velvit Oil) and after that, I did a little bit of touch-up here and there with the dye again but with the oil/varnish on there, it won't penetrate as much.

Now I'm ready for a few coats of shellac and she'll be all done!

[Jim Becker]

Just one thing you should know...walnut gets lighter over time and naturally ends up as a very nice golden/honey brown. I generally only use BLO and shellac on walnut with a sprayed water borne over that if I need extra durability. So in order to have it dark as your partner in crime wants, you'll likely need to dye it darker. Try to avoid sap if you don't want the look of sap in your piece. You may be able to dye to match "today", but as the heartwood changes color over time, the sap will not. Either embrace that difference or eliminate the sap from the project.

[Scott Holmes]

TransTint Dark Walnut dye, if you want to keep it dark. Then seal with garnet shellac 1-2 coats is all you need, then, varnish if you wish. Mix the dye with alcohol not water. Spraying is the best way to get an even coat on the dye... wiping NGR dye can be tricky if this is your first time using it because it dyes very fast. Practice on scrap. Spraying also has the advantage of no wiping needed.

[Peter Aeschliman]

TransTint Dark Walnut dye, if you want to keep it dark.

That's exactly what I used.

[Jim Kappel]

I like the idea of that dye. Should darken it up and still show off the grain. That's probably the route I'll go.

For the front doors of the armoire, I have more figured, fancier if you will, panels that I'd like to keep a little lighter. I guess what I'd like to do is really bring out or pop the grain and color. Ideas here?

I'm getting ready to cut them and raise them today. I'd like to finish them before I put them in the doors.

Thanks,
Jim

[Larry Fox]

I use the exact same schedule Jim Becker mentions. I hit it a couple of times with a light applicaiton of oil. If I am pore-filling, I use a dark filler. I then pop a coat or so of shellac onto it (typically orage to warm things up a bit) then use a WB topcoat. Last project I used Hybrvar and really liked it (although I did have a finishing issue on that project, I don't suspect product failure).

[Jim Kappel]

So I've attached a few pictures of my armoire so far. The pix include the doors dry fit and wiped down with mineral spirits to show the approximate look wet.

Here's the skinny, my wife wants the rails/stiles dark (probably at least as dark as the pic if not darker) but I want the panels much lighter to show off the figure/grain. Looking at the pix, the panels are VERY dark with just mineral spirits on them.

Thoughts on how to achieve this??

Thanks,
Jim

[John Keeton]

Jim, I think left to age, IMO the panels will always be darker than the rail/stiles just because of the nature of the figured walnut. They will both lighten over time, but there will always be a difference.

I don't know of any good way to lighten the panels other than time. You could darken the rails/stiles with dye to give a contrast, but the problem as I see it is you are trying to guess what this will look like 2 years from now.

Let's say you dye the rails/stiles to a color that you feel goes well with the panels. All of the walnut is going to lighten to an amber/honey hue, and you could end up with a displeasing contrast between the two.

Just my thoughts, but I would never try to dye part of a project using walnut. But, then, I would never dye walnut. To me, it is beautiful on its own, whether when newly milled or 20 years later. I am not adverse to dyes and stains. In fact, I really like them in certain applications, but not this one.

By the way, the armoire is looking very nice. What are the series of holes top and bottom for?

[Jim Kappel]

Holes are screws to fasten panel sides and faceframe to torsion box and top shelf so no nails show on the sides. Crown moulding and base trim covers all holes.

Jim

[Jim Kappel]

So to keep things simple and not darken the panels, what finish do you recommend?

Jim

[John Keeton]

You could put BLO on the rails/stiles and that would darken them some - not a lot, and may bring everything close to the same color, and over time they should both get the same hue.

As far as finish, I have not attempted to keep walnut light, and I have not used waterborne finishes. However, my guess is that others will advise that is the only way to keep from imparting some color and darkening to the walnut. All of the oils and varnish resins will have some degree of amber color - some more than others.

[Scott Holmes]

Dye the frame leave the panel alone. 1-2 light coats of garnet shellac on entire project... top coat if you want.

I just finished a project with 2300+- sq. ft. of walnut in a high-end custom home (not mine). Dye, then shellac, then varnish. Interior decorator spec'd "Minwax Dark Walnut" I said no, I'll get the color you want without hiding the grain. Used TT Dye. Decorator and homeowner were ecstatic.

[Conrad Fiore]

Question to the experienced. Can the front panels be bleached to lighten them up before finish?

[Scott Holmes]

Yes. Is it a good idea ? NOT IMHO. If you want it bleached I'd use butternut for the panels.

Walnut is one of the few hardwoods that actually lightens with exposure to light, most darken with age walnut goes from dark brown to a light redish brown.

[Conrad Fiore]

Yes Scott, that has already been discussed. My question was with respect to Jim's requirement to get the panels lighter than the rails and stiles. Since he already has the panels made, I was questioning if he bleached the panels, would they remain lighter than the frames even after aging? Since that is what Jim is looking to accomplish.

[Scott Holmes]

To answer your question... yes, it would make and keep the walnut panels much lighter than the frame.

I talked with Jim today. Bleach is not what he wants. He was afraid the dye would make the panels very dark. He wants the panels lighter than the frame; Jim's wife wants them the same color. So I think he's going to dye the frames and leave the panels. Later the panels may end up a bit lighter than the frames. Everyone will be happy. MAYBE. :)

[nathan chandler]

the word dye and walnut don't go together. you might as well use transtint and poplar if you want the pb ebony look.

jim alot of my clients are 20somes and want that same look. can't go wrong with the classic 3 part urethane varnish, blo, and tung oil. or go the easy route and buy the maloof poly/oil from rockler. you achieve that dark look but retain the grain, and the hand rubbed look is amazing.

before
http://www.nathanchandler.com/images/IMG_0201.JPG

after
http://www.nathanchandler.com/images/IMG_0211.JPG
http://www.nathanchandler.com/images/IMG_0212.JPG

[Rob Blaustein]

One possible twist to the "dye, shellac, varnish" schedule that Scott and others mention is to add a glazing step. Jeff Jewitt wrote about this in Fine Woodworking Mar/Apr '05 piece "Finishing Walnut." I'm in the process of using this approach on a walnut vanity and really like the way it looks on some test pieces. It's not that time consuming once you work out the mixing. I used his Transtint golden brown dye in water, then a coat of shellac (Zinsser's SealCoat), then a glaze of equal parts BLO and Bartley's gel varnish with some artist's oil colors mixed in, then Waterlox. Now if only I hadn't goofed on my dilution of dye in step 1 (I made it 10 times too concentrated)...
--Rob


Dye the frame leave the panel alone. 1-2 light coats of garnet shellac on entire project... top coat if you want.

I just finished a project with 2300+- sq. ft. of walnut in a high-end custom home (not mine). Dye, then shellac, then varnish. Interior decorator spec'd "Minwax Dark Walnut" I said no, I'll get the color you want without hiding the grain. Used TT Dye. Decorator and homeowner were ecstatic.