Workbench top?

[Jim Foster]

I'm in MA and I was thinking of building a benchtop from Southern Yellow Pine (Scharz's Book) and I can't seem to find anyone that sells it locally (MA, NH, CT, RI)

I've used fir in framing projects before long 2x12s and pretty long 4x6s and the 2x12 were nice and flat, but as I recall they were pretty wet. The 4x6s were pretty twisted. I can get 2x12s and sticker them in the shop for a month or so.

Any opinions on using fir for a benchtop? I'd glue up 2x stock into a 24"x4"x96" after dimensioning it. I am also thinking it will be cheaper than maple or another hardwood.

[glenn bradley]

I stickered KD fir dimensional lumber for two months before using it for my bench frame. End result: 50% waste and eventual failure of material. I will be replacing soon.

[Chris Friesen]

I used fir 2x12s for some stretchers on my workbench. Worked fine. I bought long straight joist material.

It might be a bit soft for a bench top...would tend to dent easily.

[David Hostetler]

Wow. Who would have thought Southern Yellow Pine would be tough to find?

Come on down here and grab some! The big box stores have it by the warehouse full, Pretty much all they sell down here for 2x material is SYP. Lowes tends to have some decently straight and clear stock and its cheap...

[Prashun Patel]

I'm also building a bench. The research I did said that construction grade fir is not appropriate for the top. Too much risk of warping. Of course, you can find many exceptions to this.

There's less risk of warping causing a problem in the base, though. So, I opted for fir in the base and a more stable material for the top.

[Richard Dooling]

I think part of the idea was to use strong stiff wood that's locally available. Down here SYP is common, I guess in New England it is an exotic import :cool:.


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[Wilbur Pan]

I think part of the idea was to use strong stiff wood that's locally available. Down here SYP is common, I guess in New England it is an exotic import :cool:.


It's an exotic import here in NJ as well.

I'm using KD Doug Fir 4x4's from the borg for my benchtop. I took the time to pick through the pile, and after the glue up I wound up with a big quartersawn slab for my workbench top, and couldn't be happier with it.

[Robert Rozaieski]

I think part of the idea was to use strong stiff wood that's locally available. Down here SYP is common, I guess in New England it is an exotic import :cool:.

Jim,

Here are my random thoughts on workbenches. They may be worth what you paid for them ;) but hey, you asked, :cool:.

Regarding hardwood for bench tops, I think they are beautiful, heavy, expensive and overrated. My first bench was constrction grade stuff and worked out just fine. My current bench is hardwood (birch) because I scored the wood for a steal and I thought a hardwood bench would be better. After several years of using the hardwood bench, I've decided my next bench will be softwood again.

Regarding the SYP that it seems everyone absolutely has to have because the Schwarz uses it, I agree with Richard. Chris uses SYP because it's strong, cheap & locally available. If you can't get SYP locally, use whatever you can get that is strong, cheap & locally available. If that means Doug fir, go for it. Wilbur Pan is building a very nice, strong bench from Doug fir and is doing a fine job with it. Search the archives here for his bench building thread.

Here's the thing I always tell folks to try to keep in mind. It's just a workbench. It's going to get cut, scratched, chiseled, glued, stained, drilled, chipped, gouged, and dented http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif. When it comes right down to it, I want the bench to get damaged before the piece of furniture I'm working on. I can't count how many times I've dented or damaged a piece of expensive mahogany or cherry or walnut because I dropped it or banged it into my bench http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/slap.gif. When I bang up a table apron or a drawer front because my bench is harder than my work, it really steams me, especially if I need to make a new piece http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowupset.gif. Maybe I'm just accident prone but these things happen often enough that I frequently consider making a new softwood benchtop.

For a workbench, I say go cheap, locally available, softer than your typical project wood and easy to maintain. SYP isn't available everywhere but it's not the only wood out there good for a workbench. FWIW, most dry softwoods tend to be more stable than hardwoods and should need less frequent flattening as long as there are no serious internal stresses in the timber. No matter what wood you use, it will need ocasional reflattening.

Just pick your stock carefully. Use 16' 2x12 material and rip the boards for your top from the sections with the straightest grain. Then let them sit for a couple days. If there are internal stresses, the wood will move right away. If it does, don't use that piece. If it doesn't move, chances are it will move very little once it is glued into a bench top.

You can also take Wilbur's path and pick through the Doug fir 4x4s at all the local stores to find the best ones and just glue those together for your top. You can make a very fine bench from any locally available softwood, even the crappy Hem-Fir we get here on the northeast coast. My first bench was Hem/Fir and it worked fine.

Support the top properly and a softwood bench will be plenty stiff enough (guess what kind of wood is supporting the second floor and roof of your house http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowsmilewinkgrin.gif). Soft wood tops also tend to grip the work better than hardwood tops in my experience. Don't underestimate a softwood top. There's a lot to like about them. http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowyes.gif Matter of fact, our friend Stephen Shephered's bench is made of super soft (sugar?, ponderosa?) pine, similar to our Eastern white pine. He seems to do just fine with it.

OK, sorry for the ramble, back to your regularly scheduled workbench discussion :D.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Well Wilbur, you beat me to it. :D

[Wilbur Pan]

Well Wilbur, you beat me to it. :D
That's only because for once, I decided to not type a lot. ;)

[Jim Foster]

Thanks guys. I'll take a look at the 2x12 fir, depending on lengths, probably 12 feet or longer. The boards I got several years ago were 28ft long I think and they were pretty clear and straight.

I have always planned on a European style bench like Klausz's, but realistically I don't need a tool tray and I am not in the mood to make the vises or work on all the joinery required. So a more straightforward bench like the "french" one in Schwarz's book looks like a great first bench. Using more affordable wood is also a plus. I'll probably put the shelf underneath, but in truth it will probably just collect "stuff."

Now I just need a few more clamps...

[Jim Koepke]

When it comes right down to it, I want the bench to get damaged before the piece of furniture I'm working on.


Guess I will need to build a bench out of balsa wood, my most common project wood is western pine. Recently used some cedar, and that seemed softer than most of the pine I've used.

jim

[Raney Nelson]

I'm in the process of building a new bench top from KD DF 4x4's as well. My local Borg got a really high quality batch, and having talked to Wilbur about his experiences it seemed a no-brainer. My research indicated that DF is stiffer than almost every other common bench wood but Hickory - indicating the capacity for a very strong top. The one area that may be a downside is that it's not particularly hard on the janka scale - so that as others have said it may be prone to denting. Some may consider that a negative, but i'd side with Robert's comments on this: I'd rather the bench dent than the furniture I'm working on. As for stability, one the fir has dried, and given that like Wilbur I'm gluing up to have a QS surface to the bench, I really doubt this will be much of an issue.

Also, I just noticed last night that this is the other wood Chris Schwarz mentions (along with SYP) as a recommended bench wood, so I think there's much to recommend it.

In the long run, my entire bench top at 96" x 25" at just over 3" thick is running something like $75 in materials. If it doesn't work out for whatever reason, I'll replace it and feel just fine about the expense. I sincerely doubt at this point that will come to pass, though - it appears to be an excellent bench wood to me thus far. I'm hoping to start installing my vises this weekend. Personally, I'm of the 'beat your bench senseless" school of thought on benches, so a well-worn and somewhat rode-hard workbench is just fine with me. I'm probably going to give it the no-finish finish as well, so I expect a thoroughly ugly top in short order. Sweet :D

[Eric Hartunian]

Amen to what Bob said. We tend to over think this whole workbench thing. Unless you want to build a bench out of a particular material for some reason, cheap and available wood will work just fine. I can't believe the number of times we see posts regarding the specific gravity of one wood or another...
I hope that didn't sound too cynical

Eric

[James Scheffler]

I built my bench top out of douglas fir 2x4s from the local HD. It's worked very well as a bench material.

I'm also in MA, and I looked for SYP but didn't find any. One brainstorm I had was to check out the local pressure treating plant, because they do get SYP by the truckload. I was hoping to get untreated scraps to cobble together into a bench. They weren't at all willing to deal with me, so that didn't work out.

So anyway, I ended up with douglas fir instead. Unfortunately, I had a lot of trouble with warping, so I ended up wasting some wood and spending a lot of time trying to get the better pieces to work. I've since found out that construction lumber often isn't dried as much as furniture grade lumber, so it tends to warp more. At $3 per 2x4, at least the waste didn't cost much.

However, the bench is now several years old and I haven't had any problems with it.

Jim

[Joel Goodman]

"I'll probably put the shelf underneath, but in truth it will probably just collect "stuff."



Best part of putting stuff on a shelf is how much heavier it makes the bench. Keeps it from moving when you plane!

[Richard Dooling]

Framing lumber with a maple strip where the dog holes are.

The tool tray is actually three removable trays that slide on rails. That way I can slide them out of the way or remove if needed.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=116819&d=1240847776


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[Walter Plummer]

Hello Jim. I thought I had a source for you but looks like they only have it here in VA, but check them out anyway. http://www.northlandforest.com/
They have nice selection stored well and seem to be reasonable on price. It is all rough lumber.

[Jacob Mac]

I'm building my bench out of DF, and so far here are my experiences:

DF is soft and it splinters easily;
I have sap all over my shop;
I have sap all over my TS and jointer after I use them, so this project has demanded a lot of cleaning;
Finding nice DF at the local borg was impossible, so I took some less than stellar wood (I should have been more patient);
I gave the DF 8 weeks to acclimate, and I probably should have given some of it more time;and
I am pretty terrible at large scale glue ups (obviously not the fault of DF)

All things considered, outside of my terrible glue up on the bench, it has been a pretty good project. I would advocate using a moisture meter, if you can get your hands on one, to help you know when the wood is acclimated.

[Dan Karachio]

Bob's manifesto :-) on soft wood tops is fantastic! I just bumped a nice piece of poplar on my maple top and bango, a nice dent to work around.

[harry strasil]

Guess what, the top of my demo bench is Linden (Bass Wood), its been loaded in and off loaded from my trailer uncounted times over 10 years and everybody and their brother and sister have worked on it. and its still in pretty good shape except for a few dings and dents and you can make a groove in it with ur thumbnail, granted its one piece, but you can't get much softer than bass wood, I needed something light enough to handle myself but solid enough to chisel on and it was available and only $20. I can't be more satisfied with its performance over many years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/bench2.jpg

[Chris Friesen]

I built my bench top out of douglas fir 2x4s from the local HD. ....Unfortunately, I had a lot of trouble with warping

Using 2x4s was likely your problem. Generally you're much better off buying the widest/longest floor joist material (likely 2x12) and ripping it narrower. It's usually going to be a lot straighter and better quality.

[John Stan]

I will throw in my 2 cents here. Building a bench is a long process. By the time you complete the bench, buy the vices, buy some tools that you must have to complete the bench (for me I needed to buy a router bit fro the mortices and some forstner bits and a chamfer bit), the price difference in the lumber seems insignificant. Pick a lumber that when complete you will be pleased with the results and want to use. I also suggest picking a wood that is easy to work with. Whatever wood you choose, find good quality lumber where you will not waste much wood. For me, I picked a few boards with knots in them figuring "it was just a bench" . Those boards ended up in the scrap pile and thus were wasted money. I made mine out of hard maple because around here it is available and reasonably cost effective. If It was doing it again, I would consider soft maple. It is about 20% cheaper than hard maple and works fine for a bench.

[David Keller NC]

I'm in MA and I was thinking of building a benchtop from Southern Yellow Pine (Scharz's Book) and I can't seem to find anyone that sells it locally (MA, NH, CT, RI).

That's really odd - not being able to find SYP in MA. "Southern" is a mis-nomer - it's the industry term for about 10 different species of hard, resinous pines that grow on the east coast from Florida to Maine.

I did a search for this on Wood Finder, and came up with several suppliers, one of which was in MA: http://www.wooderylumber.com/

However, there's no reason to go all over creation to find SYP - Doug Fir will make a great bench. The only think I'd caution against is using what the big-box stores call "SPF" (Spruce/Pine/Fir) - it's really, really weak, and might not be stiff enough to build a long Ruobo-style bench without any under structure other than the legs.

[James Scheffler]

Using 2x4s was likely your problem. Generally you're much better off buying the widest/longest floor joist material (likely 2x12) and ripping it narrower. It's usually going to be a lot straighter and better quality.

The thing is, the 2x4s I bought all looked really nice. They were straight, consistent in dimensions, and free of twist. I had to pick through the pile some, but it wasn't at all hard to find good ones in that batch. When I brought them in and let them sit in the shop for a couple of weeks, that's when they starting warping all over the place.

Is there any difference between a DF 2x4 and a DF 2x12 from the same store, same grade, both sold as construction lumber and (I assume) dried to a similar moisture content? I don't remember for sure, but I think they might have even been branded the same (Stimson or something like that). The only difference I can think of is that the 2x4s, being narrower, could have been from smaller trees. I was thinking that buying 2x4s was saving me a step, because they were already close to the dimensions I needed.

Thanks,
Jim

[Wilbur Pan]

Did you check the end of the 2x4's to see how the grain was? Most of the 2x4's here include the pith, which is almost a guarantee for warping. They are probably harvested from small trees.

On 2x12's here, the endgrain for the most part avoids the pith for the most part. Besides looking at the endgrain, you can tell the few that have the pith by the big split right down the middle of the board. ;)

[Rick Metcalf]

Jim, I'm from MA and have had great luck at The Woodery out in Leominster. They carry both milled and rough and have a finishing sevice if you need it planed. Last time I was out there he had a good supply of SYP. Hope that helps you down the road with another local quality lumber source. Wall Lumber N.C. also sells bundles in 100bf that can be freighted for a reasonable cost.

[Jim Foster]

Rick,

Theses guys are not too far from me, I'll give them a try.

Jhanks for the tip.


Jim, I'm from MA and have had great luck at The Woodery out in Leominster. They carry both milled and rough and have a finishing sevice if you need it planed. Last time I was out there he had a good supply of SYP. Hope that helps you down the road with another local quality lumber source. Wall Lumber N.C. also sells bundles in 100bf that can be freighted for a reasonable cost.

[Ray Binnicker]

My first workbench top was an old solid core door I found in a dumpster outside a hospital undergoing some renovations. Other than some discolorations there was absolutely nothing wrong with the door. It must have weighed 200 lbs. I trimmed the edges to remove the evidence of hinges and handle, wrapped the edges in some ash 4/4 strips and couldn't have asked for a better, flatter, more stable workbench top. Then one day I decided I needed a "pretty" one. There are a lot of times I wish I had the door back.

[Duane Mohney]

I can almost walk there, and I'm really happy with them.

-Duane


Rick,

Theses guys are not too far from me, I'll give them a try.

Jhanks for the tip.

[Bob Easton]

Very strong agreement with Robert R. (and with Chris Schwarz). Both advise using the lumber that's locally available. Despite SYP being listed as a common east coast wood, that doesn't mean locally available. It is indeed hard to find up here in the northeast.

I built my 12 foot long "English" bench form Doug Fir (real DF, not S/P/F) a year ago. The stuff was really wet in the store, but I kept it long enough to get reasonably dry. Yep, lots of knots, and a good bit of cupping. In the stores around here the 2x6 and 2x8 stock was far better (less twisted) than the 2x12, so I went with the narrower stock.

The top is a single thickness, laminated edge to edge, and has turned out more than sufficient for my purposes. DF is really stiff and there's no give in this bench top. Of course, the English bench's torsion box construction has a lot to do with that. It's working proof that a bench top does not need to be 2-4 inches thick. And yes, Gramercy hold fasts work just fine in this top.

Yes, it gets dinged and scarred, but that's OK. It's a workbench, not a grand piano.

It's also "approved by the Schwarz. (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CommentView,guid,72931e5d-fc58-4a7d-b114-8c7bc7555157.aspx)"

More about the bench's construction at: http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/?cat=11

http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/bench-done-tail.jpg

[Charles Murray Ohio]

Last year I was building a new shop. My plans called for a new bench, so
I contacted one of my wood suppliers who is small enough to do custom sawing. This past winter he had 16/4 hard maple cut (they only cut it in the winter to avoid stain). It sat in his yard for about 3 months untill he had a delivery this way. Price delivered $1.00 BF, and being cut in the winter it was fairly dry (about 12 % mc) it has since dried to just under 10%. And by the way I had them quarter saw it, and it was mostly clear. I know their will be some waste however at that price, I can live with it. Over the years I have tried to develop a good working relationship with suppliers like him. Go to a local saw mill, or small wood supplier. Have some cash, and see what they can do for you.

[Bill Houghton]

Guess I will need to build a bench out of balsa wood, my most common project wood is western pine. Recently used some cedar, and that seemed softer than most of the pine I've used.

jim

I want to say one word to you. Just one word.

Cardboard.

[Bill Houghton]

I expect a thoroughly ugly top in short order. Sweet :D

One thing about douglas fir is that it can raise up pretty impressive splinters. My granddad's benchtop was two 2x12s laid flat and worked hard, and it is a splintered mess.