Disgusted With This Type of Advertising [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Joe Pack

07-09-2009, 10:47 AM

I received another unrequested CD in the mail this morning, this one from Woodworker's Journal. As usual, I was told that, if I did not want to keep it, I should return it so some other woodworker would not miss out on the opportunity. I was also told that, if it was any inconvenience at all to return the CD, I could keep it and simply ignore the friendly "reminders" to pay I would receive.

This type of advertising is disgusting to me. I am tired of it. I chose to let Woodworker's Journal know of my feelings in the only way they will understand.....the text of my e-mail to their subscription department is as follows:

............................

I received a CD in the mail today...one that I did not ask for. Thank you for the gift.

I also read that, if I do not return the CD, I will be receiving friendly "reminders" that payment is due.

This will NOT happen.

If I receive even ONE "reminder," AKA, "past due notice," I will file complaints with the USPS and with my state trade commission regarding being harassed by your company for payment for an item I did not request.

I despise this type of advertisement. To put responsibility on the consumer to return a product they did not order is despicable. To imply that, if the recipient does not return the CD, another woodworker may not have the "opportunity" to benefit from the product is ridiculous. To send "reminders" to pay for a product the consumer did not ask for is blatant intimidation; many will feel obligated, often believing they ARE obligated, to pay.

Your advertising certainly has caught my attention, but not the attention you hoped for. As of this date, I will have zero affiliation with Woodworker's Journal. I receive so many woodworking magazines that I do not know if my subscription to WWJ is close to expiring, or maybe has expired. In any event, please cancel my subscription if one is still in effect and refund any balance due to the address above. If my subscription has expired, please remove my name from your mailing list.

I cannot control how a company spends its advertising dollars, but I can control how I spend mine. And I do not choose to spend them with a company that "advertises" by attempting to make a customer feel guilty or intimidated into buying something, your disclaimers to the contrary.

Respectfully, a former subscriber,

Larry J. Pack

.................................

Yes, advertising DOES get a potential customer's attention.

John Harden

07-09-2009, 10:53 AM

Wow!!!! :eek: I guess they really rubbed you the wrong way. I received the same thing and tossed it all into the trash. Their friendly reminders go there as well.

I do agree that this is annoying and not a smart way to get new customers.

Now you have me wondering who I'm depriving of their opportunity for higher education in woodworking.....:cool:

Regards,

John

Billy Chambless

07-09-2009, 11:04 AM

Joe,

I hope you've inspired them to rethink their strategy, but really, I doubt it. I suspect that the old "free gift followed by a bill" trick works more often than not.

Dan Gill

07-09-2009, 11:05 AM

Good for you! You are under absolutely no obligation to pay for anything you did not request, no matter what you do with it. Use it, trash it, whatever. It is wrong to do this, and I thought it was illegal.

My wife feels guilty using the address labels that some charities send out in their solicitations. I don't. I didn't ask them to send me anything, and I know that as the economics of mass mailings go, they'd stop if they didn't get money from it.

Dan Gill

07-09-2009, 11:07 AM

Mike Henderson

07-09-2009, 11:18 AM

Here's another one I hate: solicitations disguised as surveys. They are an insult to my intelligence. I have told various organizations I supported that I did not support this deceptive practice and would thank them to stop sending them to me.
Yeah, and the "survey" is so slanted that you could only answer it one way unless you're some extreme radical.

Like "Do you think driving drunk is okay?"

Mike

Ben Franz

07-09-2009, 11:54 AM

I agree completely and applaud your response to WW Journal. They mailed me a "free" book shortly after I signed up for a 1 year trial subscription and, after 6 months, finally stopped the "friendly reminders". Because of this incident and the somewhat lame magazine (IMHO), I won't be renewing.

Another pet peeve (thread hijack alert?) is early renewal notices. I understand that a magazine has to be agressive to retain subscribers but I just received a renewal offer from Wood and my initial "3 years for 1" doesn't expire until Nov 2011. I think this one is going to lapse unrenewed as well.

Bob Fraser

07-09-2009, 12:14 PM

Hello Joe,
Why not send them a small piece of wood that you have handcrafted,
something that will fit in an envelope like a veneer with a finish on it, and tell them thay they now owe and are obligated to pay you a couple of hundred dollars, and you will send them reminders?

It would be worth five or six bux in postage just to see what happens?

Maybe everyone on this board should do that?

bob

Adam Cavaliere

07-09-2009, 12:36 PM

All I have to say is good for you! I like it when others are as infuraiated with the crap companies try to pull. Along with that, think about all of the resources they waste in their efforts. It really irks me!

Rob Damon

07-09-2009, 1:18 PM

I have gotten a few of these as well and actually forgotten about them. When the first bill came in, I couldn't remember what it was for and the wife almost just paid it figuring it was "just another one of his WW magazines". I caught it before she sent it out. I went and found the original offer/CD and noticed what it said. The only thing that annoyed me was not that they sent it unsolicted or they sent reminders, but what they implied.

Does anybody really believe that if you return the CD that they would repack it and resend it out to another woodworker, scratches and all on the CD.

It would cost them less money to just send a new clean copy, than to try and verify that the one you sent back was still usable/readable. Clearly, that was deceptive and misleading in my opinion.

Rob

Chip Lindley

07-09-2009, 1:19 PM

But there's really No Such Thing! We Pay one way or the other. Junk mail is a serious waste of wood pulp! But, now I am curious if there is anything worthwhile to view on the *free* Woodworkers Journal CD. I doubt it.

I guarantee you FWW is not sending out copies of their Archives DVD, just hoping someone may send them $150 rather than keep it for Free!

Ignore and trash the *friendly reminders* to pay for something that you did not solicit. You are under No obligation, whatsoever! Calm down your blood pressure! It's not worth your time or effort to fume over *FREE*!

BTW, a Christmas-time charity mispelled my name on the free return address stickers. I should have complained..but...oh well...

Eddie Simmons

07-09-2009, 1:26 PM

I just received it, I have never done business with them. My question is how did they get my home address?:mad:
Ed

Maik Tobin

07-09-2009, 1:50 PM

Hey, thanks a lot. Now, because you guys tossed the cd's out, I won't have the opportinity to benefit from them.

Steven Hans

07-09-2009, 2:26 PM

Ditto on the CD and book stuff. I feel kind of bad for the actual wood workers that provide the content of the CD's. I am not sure if they realize how aggressive the marketing is. I met George Vondriska and he seems like a real nice guy. He was on the first and only CD that I got in the mail. Maybe I am naive but I would like to think the actual woodworkers that provide this service would disapprove.

Karl Knoernschild

07-09-2009, 4:48 PM

I have gotten a lot of reminders from Woodworker's Journal to renew my subscription. This despite the fact that I have never actually subscribed to it. I do subscribe to several other woodworking magazines, and I assume WWJ bought my address from one of them.

This type of tactic is despicable, IMO. After reading this thread, I will be sure to never subscribe to Woodworker's Journal.

Mr. Jeff Smith

07-09-2009, 4:53 PM

Well, I'm a new guy getting into woodworking after many years of waiting. (for a house to be able to dabble) From reading this thread I definitely will not ever be subscribing to Woodworker's Journal. Thank you for the warning of their deceptive and annoying practices.

Adam Wissman

07-09-2009, 5:43 PM

Good for you. i get fed up as well with similiar annoying tactics, "Omaha Steaks." i agree one hundred percent with you.

Paul Atkins

07-09-2009, 5:58 PM

Gather all of those AOL cd's and send them to WWJ C.O.D.

Don Abele

07-09-2009, 6:34 PM

You know it's kinda funny that I read this thread today. I was talking to the wife last night and she said that I had received the subject CD and that it came with a bill!

If you guys remember, I was the one that started the Woodworkers Guild of America thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93737) about the same exact tactic. I was going to post about this one as well, but Joe beat me to it.

In a tough economy like this one, it's amazing that they can still spend advertising dollars in this manner. Seems like a poor return on investment to me.

Joe, be sure you post any reply you get. It'll be interesting to hear what they have to say.

Be well,

Doc

Peter Quinn

07-09-2009, 7:03 PM

Good for you. I feel the same way about that sort of tactic and applaud your haven taken the time to respond accordingly. I used to find junk mail more annoying, but since the trash hauler switched to a single source recycling bin that is 70 gallons and takes office paper I find it easier to stomach. Wife bought a big shredder, straight from the mail box to the hopper it goes! The shredder eats DVD's, credit cards I didn't order, no problem. They want money from me they will have to send somebody to the house as I don't even read the junk mail, and they had better NOT send anybody to my house to collect money for something I didn't order!

Bruce Page

07-09-2009, 7:19 PM

I received the CD today. Was it Woodworker's Journal that sent out the unsolicited hardcover book a few years ago, under this exact same guise?

I’m going to cancel my subscription also.

glenn bradley

07-09-2009, 7:36 PM

I'd heard tell of a friend of someone's second cousin who used to collect the unsolicited items from "company A" until the stack was about an inch thick and then use one of their prepaid envelopes to send it all back to them. I would never do such a thing.

However, when (name removed for courtesy) refused to stop sending me faxes after repeated kind requests (they had my number down as branch office), I taped an endless loop of dark blue paper through a fax machine and sent it to them . . . in the middle of the night . . . for hours. Not sure if they ran out of toner or paper first but, the calls stopped ;-)

harry strasil

07-09-2009, 7:53 PM

Its really not advertising, its pressure selling, the object is to make you feel obligated to send them money for something you don't want, and a good percentage of gullable people will actually send them money, and another percentage will return the unsolicited material back to the sender. Just more profit for the scammers pocket, not having to reproduce the article.

My .0002¢ worth due to inflation.

Tom Adger

07-09-2009, 8:03 PM

I'm with Bruce from a few posts earlier. I am going to cancel my subscription tomorrow.

Exact same scenario as described earlier. Sent an unsolicitated CD. Sent it back. Have had 4 or 5 billings for it. Also the same very early requests for renewal of subscription.

Maybe it would get their attention(and maybe not) if all of a sudden they got a whole lot of cancellations. Bruce's and mine are a start.

Larry Frank

07-09-2009, 8:21 PM

I received the same in the mail today. I called them up and let them know that I do not have to return it and they will not bill me. I also let them know that this is not the way to do business. Sound like the guy had heard the same thing a few times. In some cases like this one, it is worth the call to let them know that you do not care for this type of thing and it will stop you from buying their magazine.

Joe Jensen

07-09-2009, 8:41 PM

My wife may have already paid the "bill". The problem for me is that she pays, stuff goes in a stack for me to read, and I don't figure the game out until later.

Maybe use the prepaid return mailers to mail bricks?

Mike Bensema

07-09-2009, 10:04 PM

canceling a subscription probably will not do much, they probably expect some of that. If it really ticked me off, I would send a letter to each of their major advertisers letting them know why you are canceling the magazine subscription and then send a copy of all of the letters to the owner of the magazine. I think that might get someones attention.

Steve Clardy

07-09-2009, 10:13 PM

I just toss that stuff in the trash and don't worry about it. Too many other, more important things in life to worry about.

I toss their bills in the trash too.

Justin McCarthy

07-09-2009, 10:26 PM

Guys, just got the same thing....

Quick did a google search and found 39 USC 3009 (Federal Statute)

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+39USC3009

It reads ....

"Sec. 3009. Mailing of unordered merchandise

(a) Except for (1) free samples clearly and conspicuously marked as
such, and (2) merchandise mailed by a charitable organization soliciting
contributions, the mailing of unordered merchandise or of communications
prohibited by subsection (c) of this section constitutes an unfair
method of competition and an unfair trade practice in violation of
section 45(a)(1) of title 15.
(b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this
section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a
gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard,
or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation
whatsoever to the sender. All such merchandise shall have attached to it
a clear and conspicuous statement informing the recipient that he may
treat the merchandise as a gift to him and has the right to retain, use,
discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any
obligation whatsoever to the sender.
(c) No mailer of any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection
(a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, shall
mail to any recipient of such merchandise a bill for such merchandise or
any dunning communications.
(d) For the purposes of this section, ``unordered merchandise''
means merchandise mailed without the prior expressed request or consent
of the recipient."

In my opinion, the offer is not clearly and conspicuously noted that it is a gift, and secondly they apparently send a bill (um... I mean a reminder notice)

I'm upset about this as well. What bugs me most is that some people aren't likely to know their rights in regards to this and will be fooled into paying for it or thinking they have an obligation to waste their time sending it back.

Dave Lehnert

07-09-2009, 10:28 PM

I just received it, I have never done business with them. My question is how did they get my home address?:mad:
Ed

Ever deal with Rockler? WWJ is Rockler. Look at the Magazine. Nothing more than a fancy catalog for Rockler. And you thought it was funny Rocker just happend to have the hardware for the projects in the magazine.
Wood Craft does the same thing with their magazine.

Contact info.

Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
4365 Willow Drive
Medina, MN 55340

Woodworker’s Journal
4365 Willow Drive
Medina, MN 55340

george wilson

07-09-2009, 11:31 PM

Those PITA book clubs can be the same. I still have a book I didn't order,or pay for.

Those "free" offers on television for non FDA approved drugs will also result in them automatically sending you an expensive bottle of pills you did not ask for,after the free sample runs out. They get your credit card number to pay postage,then they've got you.

Billy Chambless

07-10-2009, 7:18 AM

I'd heard tell of a friend of someone's second cousin who used to collect the unsolicited items from "company A" until the stack was about an inch thick and then use one of their prepaid envelopes to send it all back to them. I would never do such a thing.

My brother's brother used to do a variation on this where the ACLU would get all the NRA's begging letters and vice versa.

Billy Chambless

07-10-2009, 7:19 AM

Mark Valsi

07-10-2009, 9:27 AM

Good on ya !!

I hate that bull crap too !!

Thomas Pender

07-10-2009, 10:18 AM

This is one of those threads that is worth reading and is a real service. It warns us of a practice that is arguably illegal (thank you Justin) and that is, unethical. I also can imagine my wife paying for it under the mistaken impression I had ordered it - I mean I am always getting woodworking stuff from LV, Grizzly, Rockler, McFeelys's, Woodcraft, Woodworker's Supply, etc., so this could slip on by.

I think it is important that we react in a matter stronger than just throwing the unwanted stuff in the trash. Unfair trade practices are serious business and deserve serious replies. I too will be firing a shot across their bow on this one.:mad:

Brian Tymchak

07-10-2009, 12:52 PM

[QUOTE=Bruce Page;1171954]I received the CD today. Was it Woodworker's Journal that sent out the unsolicited hardcover book a few years ago, under this exact same guise?QUOTE]

Yep. I had to make a trip to the post office to send that back. (Wouldn't fit in the mail box.) I agree that WWJ is crossing a line here, besides just being a PITA. But at least with the CDs they provide a mailer I can stuff back in my mail box.

Cliff Rohrabacher

07-10-2009, 2:09 PM

I get invoices for expensive industry journals I've never subscribed to.

I think they are hoping some dopey office administrator will just put in the pile to be paid.

Bruce Page

07-10-2009, 2:30 PM

Yep. I had to make a trip to the post office to send that back. (Wouldn't fit in the mail box.) I agree that WWJ is crossing a line here, besides just being a PITA. But at least with the CDs they provide a mailer I can stuff back in my mail box.

As I recall, mine went into the trash.

Don Selke

07-10-2009, 2:43 PM

Well. it is a tough world out there for business in this economy. I am sure that a lot of magazines are strugling to keep up there subscriptions to stay in business. I like others, do not agree with the concept of sending something out to promote business or a product. A local woodworking and lumber outlet in my area stated that the equipment sales for stationary equipment is completly down the drain to the point that they are loosing money from year old inventory. I am sure that the various publications are having the same problem. I have personally cut my publications in half and only receive the one or two that I really enjoy reading. I will not be surprised to see a lot of the publications fold in the near future. I have had several publications that I canceled turn my account over to a telimarketing company who continue to harass me to death. I will never renue there publications again. I have received annoying phone calls all hours of the day and evening. Nothing worse then sitting down to a great dinner and haveing it interrupted with a telimarketing call.
Oh well, off the soap box. To me, telimarketing calls are the same as internet spamers.

By the way, I would not mention specific companies by name, the management here at Saw Mill Creek has asked that we not do that.

Justin McCarthy

07-10-2009, 3:10 PM

Well. it is a tough world out there for business in this economy. I am sure that a lot of magazines are strugling to keep up there subscriptions to stay in business. I like others, do not agree with the concept of sending something out to promote business or a product. A local woodworking and lumber outlet in my area stated that the equipment sales for stationary equipment is completly down the drain to the point that they are loosing money from year old inventory. I am sure that the various publications are having the same problem. I have personally cut my publications in half and only receive the one or two that I really enjoy reading. I will not be surprised to see a lot of the publications fold in the near future. I have had several publications that I canceled turn my account over to a telimarketing company who continue to harass me to death. I will never renue there publications again. I have received annoying phone calls all hours of the day and evening. Nothing worse then sitting down to a great dinner and haveing it interrupted with a telimarketing call.
Oh well, off the soap box. To me, telimarketing calls are the same as internet spamers.

Don, you might want to get yourself on the Do Not Call List -
https://www.donotcall.gov/

It takes about a month, but the telemarketing calls go down substantially - I saw a reduction by almost 90%

If they call you and you are on the do not call list, make sure to point that out - they can be liable for big fines for calling you.

Don Selke

07-10-2009, 3:25 PM

Thanks Justin:

I have done that.

Steve Clardy

07-10-2009, 3:43 PM

I get invoices for expensive industry journals I've never subscribed to.

I think they are hoping some dopey office administrator will just put in the pile to be paid.

Ditto. I also get the Yellow Page directory bills.
Fine print on the bill, this is not a bill :confused:

Brian Kent

07-10-2009, 5:52 PM

However, when (name removed for courtesy) refused to stop sending me faxes after repeated kind requests (they had my number down as branch office), I taped an endless loop of dark blue paper through a fax machine and sent it to them . . . in the middle of the night . . . for hours. Not sure if they ran out of toner or paper first but, the calls stopped ;-)

Glenn, that's one of the best ideas I've ever heard of!:p

Matt Meiser

07-10-2009, 6:10 PM

Don, you might want to get yourself on the Do Not Call List -
https://www.donotcall.gov/

It takes about a month, but the telemarketing calls go down substantially - I saw a reduction by almost 90%

If they call you and you are on the do not call list, make sure to point that out - they can be liable for big fines for calling you.

Not if you have a business relationship with them.

What does work is emailing every single person on the publication's web site a strongly worded email that by 9AM the next business day the WILL remove you from their and any agents' calling lists. I tried this with a magazine my wife subscribed to who was calling my work line. I got a nasty threatening email back from one of their sales people wanting to know where I got her email and how dare I bother her at home on a Saturday. I responded (copying all her co-workers) asking her exactly the same and reiterating. The reply was a little nicer and copied someone in circulation. Never heard from them again.

Or ask Don Peschke (or maybe it was Terry Strohman) of Woodsmith who got a voicemail from me the third or so time his telemarketers hung up before I could tell them not to call back--apparently a trick they use to skirt the law, since they didn't actually hear you say not to call back. His assistant called back an hour later and I haven't heard or seen a thing since. Cracks me up every time I watch his show.

As mentioned Rockler owns WWJ. Call or write CEO Ann Jackson-Rockler at (763) 478-8201 or 4365 Willow Drive, Medina, MN 55340.

David Parker

07-10-2009, 6:15 PM

Maybe I'm thicker skinned, but the DVD mailing didn't bother me in the slightest. I get junk mail every day. I already knew that anything sent to me without my request was free for me to keep. Their accompanying letter even says you may keep it for free if you desire. You only need to pay for it if you want to enroll in their "series" of DVD's.

What I did not like about the offer is the fact that nowhere do they tell you how much each future DVD will cost if you sign up for the series. The first one is about $9 if you sign up, but they don't tell you how much future DVD's will be. I called them to find out. It's $28 for future DVDs. To me this is extremely deceiving, because one would assume that future DVD's would be in the ballpark of $9. I told them so when I called.

So bottom line - Thumbs down to WWJ for misleading us on the price.

Thanks for the free DVD. I still haven't watched it though.

Dave

Juan Lauchu

07-10-2009, 6:25 PM

It made me disgusted too! I took action by contacting the BBB and then letting the WW Journal know that it was a disrespectful tactic to get me to buy their product. The reply I got from WWJ was that it really is free and that if I don't want to throw it away. But like you said,... they would still send reminders to pay for a "free DVD?" Definitely a scam there. Thanks for sharing... I can relate.

Steve Rozmiarek

07-10-2009, 7:09 PM

Glen, that is really funny!

Rick Potter

07-11-2009, 4:25 AM

Just curious............has anyone actually watched this free DVD?? I haven't looked at mine yet.

Who knows? Maybe it is a good one. It is probably worth at least giving it to a beginner woodworker.

Rick Potter

Bob Genovesi

07-11-2009, 6:25 AM

John F. Snyder

07-11-2009, 10:11 AM

I was also ticked off on Thursday when the DVD arrived. I will keep it, not pay anything and not renew my subscription.

Brian Kent

07-11-2009, 10:17 AM

Maybe we should all send invoices for storage fees?

Navin Rao

07-11-2009, 10:47 AM

This subject has me fuming as well. What a waste of resources. Anyone who wastes my free time by having me return something I did not request deserves to pay me for my time.

I'd like to share something a coworker does when unsolicited mailing appear that become persistent in nature (those once a week credit card applications, for example). He takes the postage paid envelop and returns all the paper, including the envelope to the business. His logic seems sound - if they have to keep paying for 30% of their mailing's to be returned, it becomes a profitless game. As someone mentioned in an earlier thread, some folks like to switch the contents of the mailing ... send Discover a capital one application, etc.

george wilson

07-11-2009, 1:04 PM

I think rockler is a bunch of idiots anyway. They put in a catalog they sent several years ago that their veneer was 1/28" thick ( in the 50's that was standard thickness). I got excited by that,and ordered a bunch of sheets. It was 1/36" thick. I cvalled them,asking who said the veneer was 1/28. Their shop foreman. I talked to the head of rockler,who acted like I didn't know what I was talking about. I urged him to STACK the veneers up 1" high,AND COUNT THEM Any fool could do that,even if he can't read a dial caliper.

I did at least notice that they stopped advertising 1/28" veneer eventually. I won't deal with them. Good thing too,if they are sending out those DVD's.

Larry James

07-11-2009, 6:31 PM

...I received another unrequested CD in the mail this morning, this one from Woodworker's Journal

I received a CD in the mail today...one that I did not ask for. Thank you for the gift. ...

Joe,

Sounds familiar, or at least similar to this thread.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93737

I received this DVD and still have it, but never watched the entire DVD.

I fell for the "Free Issue" ploy from Wood magazine last year and still receive invoices asking me to "renew" my subscription - what subscription?

So, no surprise WWJ uses the same tactics. Not worth getting upset about. Now if I receive any mailing from a magazine I don't subscribe to I don't bother opening It - I trash it.

Larry

Art Bianconi

07-12-2009, 3:05 AM

Hello Joe,
Why not send them a small piece of wood that you have handcrafted,
something that will fit in an envelope like a veneer with a finish on it . . .

bob

Junk mail has virtually ceased at my home. Not sure if my manner of dealing with it was an influence or not.

What I would do is open the junk mail and simply stuff the contents, all of it, into the free-postage paid return envelope and mail it back to them!

They have to pay the post office for those returns. I'd have loved to have seen the expressions on their faces.

Art

David Hostetler

07-12-2009, 4:23 AM

Joe,

I hope you've inspired them to rethink their strategy, but really, I doubt it. I suspect that the old "free gift followed by a bill" trick works more often than not.

4 Wheel and Off Road Magazine did something similar with a DVD Series covering the Top Truck Challenge a few years ago. I canceled a 15 year running subscription with them over that.

But to be blunt, clueless media companies is part and parcel of the time we live in now. Unfortunately we have to live with the impact these boneheads have on our lives.

ken gibbs

07-12-2009, 7:52 AM

In the Commonwealth of Virginia, if you receive anything of value sent to you "blind", you do not have any obligation to return it to he sender. But be sure you did not "check the box" while using your computer when you visited a website. I know that the woodworking magazines sell your e-mail address to other commercial concerns and now I get solicitation from many different magazines and catalog firms. If you retain this "thing of value" and you did nothing to ask for this item or product, it is yours to keep.

About a year ago a local kid decided to make my lilfe miserable by using a "drop out" card to order about forty (40) magazine subscriptions for me in my name. The aggregate costs were around $3,000. This is a clear case of identity theft and is a Federal offense. You do not need a SS number to order magazines. The magazines that were sent first class through my local post office were returned to the sender at no cost to me. The major problem is magazine subscriptions are mostly handled through solicitation firms (magazine.com etc) and these firms WILL NOT help you resolve a situation like this one.

After a year of aggrivation, I started getting dunning notices from collection agencies demanding money. I had to threaten these folks by letter that if I had ANY negatives show up in the credit reporting forms, would take them to court. I had returned all magazines to the sender, but the senders just shread up the returned magazines and do NOT talk to the people who issue the subscriptions.

The United States Postal Inspection Service is a USELESS ORGANIZATION AND WILL NOT HELP YOU. THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION was the only group who helped me.

Pat Germain

07-12-2009, 11:49 AM

I got a stupid book from WWJ shortly after I subscribed. Mrs. Pat keeps telling me I should pay for it. I keep telling her nothing doing.

Here's the reality:

- What they're doing isn't illegal because, as they say in the letter, we can indeed keep the product for free; which is exactly what I did. If some people feel guilty and pay, that's their problem.

- Mailing back solicitations, or anything else, from another company won't do anything. Low level mail room processors will just throw it away without even noticing who sent it.

- You can't attach a postage paid evelope to a brick, or anything esle, and expect it to get anywhere. The post office just throws it away. And, if you attach it to something which is a controlled disposable, like a tire, you can set yourself up for a nice fine.

- If you want to make WWJ aware of what you think about their sleazy marketing, write a letter to the corporate headquarters. Find out who is actually in charge of this magazine. Address it to that person by name. It does take some time and effort.

But all other efforts are in futility. Talking to sales people on the phone will do nothing. The word won't get up to management. Mailing back junk will do nothing. The word won't get up to management. Therefore, send a letter directly to management. If they get thousands of letters saying, "You and your marketing tacticts suck!", they will eventually get the word. Whether they do anything about is another story, but at least they will get the word.