Advice needed: Shellac Vs. Varnish for cherry bookcase

[Robb Milley]

Hello all, I tried searching on this but just got more confused!

I've built a low cherry bookcase to go in the family room. The top is the perfect hight to put down a drink or coffee cup, but I expect this to be minimal and coasters to be used. One section will be for cookbooks and this will get frequent use.

I've applied two coats of heated BLO and wiped off after 10-15 minutes and I really like the color. I want to put a finish on that will look and feel good, but be difficult for me to mess up. I'm considering a thinned varnish wiped on, shellac, or rattle cans of those two or lacquer.

I've done test pieces with BLO and varnish, and BLO and shellac. So far, I like the shellac. However, many of the posts I've read call for BLO, then Shellac, then varnish.

What is the advantage of the shellac under the varnish? Is is just to prevent the BLO from bleeding into the varnish? Will just shellac be enough protection for this application? Do I really need two finishes? Is there an advantage to the lacquer?

What are the pro's/con's of the rattle cans for shellac/varnish/lacquer?

Thanks for the input,
Robb

[Jerry Olexa]

Shellac will act as a sealer in this case. You could apply the shellac and see how you like the look. If not, most varnish will go easily over the shellac esp if it is de-waxed. Most of my projects like yours are BLO and shellac. A richer look IMHO vs varnish.

[Leo Graywacz]

Shellac is a pretty non durable finish. It is easily damaged by water or alcohol. One strong point is it is easily repaired. But only if the wood below wasn't damaged.

The varnish is a tougher finish and is more resistant to water and alcohol.

Depending on lacquers, they could be on the same durability scale as the shellac. Nitrocellulose lacquer is the least durable. Use a pre cat lacquer or a post cat if you want good durability. Both will usually require spraying it on.

[Chris Padilla]

Shellac is famous for acting as a barrier coat. In other words, it can bridge the gap between two incompatiable finishes.

I believe the shellac needs to be dewaxed for the varnish to adhere well. However, most lacquers don't care if the shellac is waxy or not.

I'm trying to figure out the next finish for my Tansu (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92396) that I've been working on. So far, I've dyed it with a NGR dye (Behlen's Solar Lux hickory color thinned further with their retarder) and then applied tinted Velvit Oil: oil/varnish blend.

I now need a relatively durable finish on it and due to the design (6 "cubbies"), most likely I'll go with a wiping varnish or rattle can lacquer....

[Stephen Musial]

Shellac is a lot more resilient than people give it credit. It used to be used on all manner of furniture as well as hardwood floors. I've used it on aquarium stands with no problems after 10 years (fresh) and 5 years (salt) as well as our old dining room floor (8 years until we moved - maybe still going strong). Those tank stands had a LOT of water spilled on the wood with no problems (that's a picture in my avatar). The odd coffee cup or sweaty drink isn't going to touch a good shellac finish.

Three or four coats followed by a rubdown with 0000 steel wool, finish up with some Johnson's Paste Wax and you're golden.

p.s. unless you're in the habit of drinking grain alcohol, spilled drinks won't be a problem - including Bushmills Single Malt (DAMHIKT)

[Neal Clayton]

i agree. i still use it on almost everything i build.

it's quite fragile until it cures, but then again every finish is. once it has cured water won't hurt it much. the white rings you see on old furniture are caused by the water and/or alcohol cutting the wax, not the shellac. i have some original shellac/wax floors in my house that are doing fine after 100 years.

[Jim Becker]

Shellac is a lot more resilient than people give it credit.


Absolutely...exactly what I was going to say. Easy to fix, too...much easier than varnish.

[Chris Padilla]

Absolutely...exactly what I was going to say. Easy to fix, too...much easier than varnish.

Hmmm, Mr. Bob Flexner doesn't think shellac is all that tough. I will have wicker baskets rubbing on the finish on my Tansu so I was thinking to varnish it. Thoughts? Maybe I could just varnish the inner cubes or the "floor" of the cubes??

Hmmmm.....

Easy to fix finishes are easy to fix because they aren't all that tough, right?! Finishes that are hard to fix are often hard to damage....

[Stephen Musial]

http://www.faqs.org/abstracts/Home-and-garden/The-case-for-shellac-its-neglected-but-itss-one-of-the-best-finishes-available.html

The case for shellac: its neglected, but it's one of the best finishes available


Article Abstract:
Shellac was the main finish until the 1920s when lacquer was introduced and surpassed it in popularity. But this old-fashioned natural resin offers many advantages. Compared to other finishes its advantages include its greater protectiveness. It has a short shelf life of about a year maximum.
author: Flexner, Bob
Publisher: August Home Publishing Company
Publication Name: Workbench
Subject: Home and garden
ISSN: 0043-8057
Year: 1996

Shellac is easy to repair because it amalgamates into the previous layer. It's all a matter of taste but I've never had a problem with it. Tough, quick drying, and gives a depth to wood that varnish can't touch.

[Chris Padilla]

Yes, shellac on shellac will combine with each other...or "melt" into each other just like lacquer so one can easily build up layers and cut back with no issues like varnish might have since it doesn't recombine with itself.

What I think I will do is shellac my whole project and then lay down a layer of varnish in the area that will get the heavist rubbing.

[Scott Holmes]

Building a shellac finish is quite different than building a lacquer or varnish finish.

A perfect shellac finish will be the thinnest possible coat that is flawless...

A "French polish" contrary to what many believe; is a very thin finish. IT is flawless, that's what makes it so beautiful and so labor intense.

In my finishing classes - I mix up a "drink" using DNA (= to 200 proof booze) in a adult drink %. then spill it on a wanut "table" (actually just a finished piece of walnut), leave it for an hour... NO DAMAGE.

Hint: the alcohol evaporates long before the rest of the "drink".

[Chris Padilla]

French polish is not really a finish...it is a technique of applying shellac with a pad. It is still shellac. It takes FOREVER to apply such a finish but it produces very nice results.

[Howard Acheson]

>> I believe the shellac needs to be dewaxed for the varnish to adhere well.

Just to clear up a point. Dewaxed shellac is only needed under poly varnish or waterborne finishes. Standard, wax containing shellac is just fine under non-poly varnishes.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Howie...wax/water...don't mix...that'll help me remember.

However, wouldn't another reason to dewax shellac be to improve the clarity of it?