advice restacking lumber treated for powderpost beetle

[whit richardson]

I am treating some lumber that has powder post beetles with a boric acid solution. Now I'm don't know of I should sticker the lumber and let dry or stand the boards up and let dry before stacking again. The lumber was kiln dried but has been stored in my garage. Recommendations? FYI I don't have space or facilities to stack it outside covered for any long time, in the 'burbs.

thanks

[Scott T Smith]

Either method should work, but standing up in your garage will have less chance of a sticker stain. Just be sure that the boards are dry before you dead stack them again.

[Barry Vabeach]

Whit, I assume you know this, but the solution won't kill any larvae already in the boards - one option to do that it to heat to above 130 degrees for a few hours.

[whit richardson]

Whit, I assume you know this, but the solution won't kill any larvae already in the boards - one option to do that it to heat to above 130 degrees for a few hours.

Yes I've learned that and I'll just have to live with it this time. I don't have any means heat the lumber.

[Scott T Smith]

Yes I've learned that and I'll just have to live with it this time. I don't have any means heat the lumber.

Whit, do you (or a friend) have a nice hot attic that you can stick them in for a few weeks? That should do the trick.

[whit richardson]

Whit, do you (or a friend) have a nice hot attic that you can stick them in for a few weeks? That should do the trick.

I do have a "space" above my garage/workshop as it's a gabled garage and it gets pretty warm up there... I just have to get it up there as my garage has 11' plus ceiling.

[David Keller NC]

Whit - I wouldn't do this (bring lumber inside that you know was infested with powder post beetles and aren't sure that there's not additional larvae and/or eggs still remaining). If you want to be certain you've killed everything, you can fume the boards with ammonia. You'll need a 30% solution of Ammonium Hydroxide (wear a respirator!), a tarp, and a place to put the lumber where there's nothing on the ground that you don't want killed.

[whit richardson]

If I don't care about the existing larva exiting the boards and I keep them in the garage after treating with the boric acid solution won't the existing beetles go through their life cycle lay eggs back on the lumber and the larva will die trying to bore back into the lumber. I'm treating the shop and any exposed wood with the same solution.

Otherwise it sounds like I need to kill all the live ones now too.

[David Keller NC]

Well, it's risky in that you may not get everything treated and they could invade the structure. Probably a small chance of that, but it might be disastrous if it happened.

[whit richardson]

Well, it's risky in that you may not get everything treated and they could invade the structure. Probably a small chance of that, but it might be disastrous if it happened.

That sounds like I'll need a professional exterminator to treat the garage and then burn $500 worth of lumber? My readings about powderpost beetle problems here didn't sound so alarming. I'll go back and reread up on them via Internet research. See I lived in Houston for years where we had vicious termites and other pests so soaking your home in highly toxic products was a annual rite. I've not had those problems in the Midwest (not saying it doesn't happen). Realistically I could see having an exterminator visit, renting a concrete and metal space a PS and leaving the lumber there for a month or three to cook. Or keep treating since the beetles emerged a while back and monitor the workshop and any exposed wood for activity. The wall the lumber was stored on is sheetrocked so that should help.

[David Keller NC]

Well, if there have already been beetles that have emerged from the lumber while it was stored inside the garage, then you -might- have a problem brewing, but then again you might not.

I think if it were me, I would probably make the call as to whether to get pro help depending on the exact situation. If the garage is wholly detached from your house, I'd probably set off a bug-bomb in side of it and not worry about it unless I was starting to find little piles of sawdust in the garage.

As far as the lumber goes, there's lots easier (and cheaper) ways of dealing with insect infestation than renting a storage unit. My first choice would be as I stated earlier - I'd tent a stacked and stickered pile with a big tarp, shovel sand or dirt around the tarp's edges, and stick a container of 30% Ammonium Hydroxide under it for a day or so. With absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that will kill absolutely everything in the lumber. You can get 30% NH3OH at a scientific supply store, a blueprinting shop, or order it off of the net. Failing that, you can get "janitorial strength" ammonia from a local hardware store - it's 10%, so you would probably want to use more volume in the open container under the tent, and leave it for 2 or 3 days.

Another way to do this that I've heard of was to rent a panel truck from the local U-Haul place, put the wood in, and fume it with ammonia. The ammonia leaves no trace once it's ventilated, and it will actually clean out the inside of the truck.

Second way to do this would be to send the wood to a local kiln. It'll be more expensive, but it will also get your lumber dry enough to use immediately.

Finally, it's also possible to kill bugs and eggs in lumber by denying them oxygen. You can do this by forming a big envelope out of painter's plastic, putting in a few handfuls of oxygen-scavengers (these are little packets of iron filings and a catalyst), and leaving it for a couple of weeks. The lack of oxygen will kill latent eggs, active insects, and some types of fungi.

[whit richardson]

Okay so doing the fuming sounds reasonable (sort of..) just getting my 18 yr old to help me move the wood somewhere I can tent it. I have some very nice wide planks 12" - 14" by 10' to 12' so I just don't flip those suckers around the shop myself. At least not anymore. I should be able to find the Ammonium Hydroxide okay.

The garage is attached. I've never seen this problem until I got this lumber. It was from a local source and it's a whole tree so the beetles could of been in the tree to start. I don't see them anywhere else except in this lumber. It's Honey locust and I don't see them in the heartwood like the research sites say. I'll treat and monitor for now.

[Todd Burch]

Whit, several years ago I got a bunch of lumber for $100. 4 pickup loads. I dead stacked it in my driveway and called an exterminator who could bag it. It cost $275 at the time. For for a total of $375 for the (now) bug free lumber I got, it was a great deal.

Since you've lived in Houston, I presume you know what I mean by "bagging".

Todd

[whit richardson]

Whit, .....deal.

Since you've lived in Houston, I presume you know what I mean by "bagging".

Todd

Oh yea.... one of those things I don't miss but still consider myself a citizen of the Sovereign State of Texas always.

[Barry Vabeach]

Whit, I had about that much wood, maybe a little more, and built a small solar kiln ( 10 foot long by 30 inches wide by 3 feet high ) and am killing the bugs 50 - 75 bd ft at a time. On a good sunny day in Va I can get to 130 degrees pretty easily and keep it there for a few hours with the assistance of a small electric heater. I have been working on it for several weeks ( rainy days don't help) and should be done pretty soon.

[whit richardson]

Maybe for long term I need to look building the hobbyist "make-your-own-kiln" plans. I bought this Honey Locust because of it's not common, great price and being a complete tree it would be great for matching grain patterns. I've found other WW guys are interested in buying some too if I want to unload any but I don't want to sell anyone "infested" wood.

[David Keller NC]

Whit - One thing you need to realize is that ammonia fuming will darken woods that contain a lot of tannic acid. Generally, this is highly desirable for woods like red and white oak, but you may want to test a piece or two just to make sure you're OK with that.

The advantage to doing this over the sort of things that professional exterminators use is that there is absolutely zero residue left over after the wood's been allowed to air out for a couple of hours. You can control the amount of darkening by reducing the exposure - generally speaking, the exposure time that's 100% leathal to insects and microbes in the wood is a lot shorter than the amount of time used to darken Arts and Crafts furniture.

This is a guess on my part, but 2 hours of ammonia fuming should be greatly sufficient to kill the crap out of the bugs (and make sure that the gas completely diffuses into the insect tunnels). Most folks will fume a piece of furniture for about 12 hours to get it to darken up sufficiently.

[Kevin Barnett]

Seeing how it's summer, can't you just put the wood in a metal, flat black container in your driveway? Certainly you can get to 130 degrees. Heck, you might be able to leave it in your car for a couple of days if you park it in the sun.

Myself, I'd put a big sheet of black painted metal in the back of my pick-up. Then I'd stack the wood in the back with room for circulation. Then cover it with some glass from someone that's pitching away an old sliding door or two on craigslist. Maybe run a small ceramic heater via extension cord to boost temp and provide a little circulation.

[whit richardson]

I don't want to darken the wood now. Maybe after a experiment with some pieces. Now the heartwood is a nice salmon pink and the sapwood is light yellow. I'll keep a timer on it.

As to Kevin's option... I don't have a black container that's big or long. I have some boards that are a bit over 12' long and a good bit of it. It didn't fit in the truck when I picked it up. I just dropped the tailgate and the weight kept everything in place. I also have some base pieces that are over 24" wide with the waney edges intact (weight a ton!). The tree was a dual trunk too.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I don't think it matters but, you might not want the little buggers able to escape the holes alive and invade other lumber.

[whit richardson]

I don't think it matters but, you might not want the little buggers able to escape the holes alive and invade other lumber.

True and I'm expediting treatment. Now all I have besides this Honey locust is one Sassafras board, some scrap oak and poplar and a few sheets of 3/4" Ply for some cabinets. Everything else is down in the basement and hasn't been near this lumber.