A brief revisit of slot mortiser vs. multirouter

[Richard Link]

Hi everyone. I've been reading quite a bit about the various pros and cons of the slot mortiser vs. multirouter. I think I understand the basic concepts here but would like some more opinions.

I am in the process of retooling my garage shop, primarily due to a general dissatisfaction with the small working space. For primarily this purpose (as there is no enlargement of the space possible), I am selling the majority of my separate machines and planning to purchase a European-style 5 station combination machine to condense things in the future. One of the machines that I intend to part with is a free-standing hollow chisel mortiser, which I use quite lot.

The combination machines I am investigating all have a slot mortiser option, which seems attractive. On the other hand, they all require additional investment to get the table, chuck, etc. This ranges from $800 to $1700 (ouch) to get a functional mortiser. In addition, this table (while small) takes up a fair bit of extra space and isn't movable. It does seem, as well, that the functionality of this table is a bit limited to simply making routed mortises or perhaps serving as a horizontal drill press. They also seem a bit sloppy with respect to clamps, stops, etc and I imagine that some creative fixture-making will be needed to make angled mortises, etc.

The JDS multirouter is certainly more expensive, perhaps twice as expensive. On the other hand, I'd hate to spend $1700 to get a rather limited capability when I could save up for a while and get a machine that can also make tenons, angled tenons, box joints, dovetails, etc. From a space standpoint, it doesn't seem to take up much more space and, additionally, doesn't have to hang off the side of my combination machine all the time getting in the way. On the other hand, I guess this isn't really a horizontal drill press (or is it?)?

Bottom line: I realize I can make mortises with a chisel, a plunge router, a sharpened spoon, all kinds of cheap (and not so cheap - i.e. domino) approaches. On the other hand, if you were going to drop 12-19K on a combination machine (hopefully to last the rest of your woodworking life) and wanted to have a reliable and versatile mortising capability at some point in the future, would you favor investing in the combination machine's slot mortiser table or waiting a bit longer and splurging some day for a multirouter?

[Mike Heidrick]

What will you make - that will determine what you get.

You are limited by the JDS multirouter to the length of the router bits you can find.

A slot mortiser uses mortising tooling and you can buy it in long and wde sizes.

The multi router is fast and awesome. A dream for any shop. You will not be making 5" mortises with it though.

I own a Laguna Platium V-way slot mortiser and a Leigh FMT. I am pretty sure I can do all the JDS functions and more - but not as fast or as elegant. thi sis about like your bolt on mortiser.

The V-way is under $800 right now!! A full blown Leigh FMT is on special for about $800 (all the bits and templates included).

I bet if you show up at AWFS in Vegas and hit John up at the JDS booth with $2500 you will away with a loaded down Multirouter with stand.

Want a real mortiser - move up to a true import. I tried an LBM-200 from Laguna and it is seriously a dream tool. I have read that other manufacturers have awesome ones too. All around $3500-$4000 or more!! Real mortisers move the head not the table.

Hobby or smaller work - Multirouter. Large hobby interests - Vway or bolt on mortiser. Commercial door jobs - LBM-200.

Onsurd makes decent affordable mortiser tooling. Mortiser tooling is pricey. Pay attention to rotation speed.

[Gregory Stahl]

I had the Laguna V-way slot mortiser and unloaded it after getting a Multi-Router. It cannot compete with the quality and accuracy of the Multi-Router. It is a pain to set-up as well, and will most likely require building a table to attach to it of some sort as it will not mortise 3/4" thick stock as delivered. It is a hobbiest machine designed to fit into a price range--and it does this fine.

The LBM-200 seems fairly popular; however, my local university art dept. bought one that I got to check out. The welds on it for the handles to make it mobile broke off before the machine was even set-up, and the bicycle brake style handle for using the doweling rod seemed cheap. I would like the opportunity to actually use one over the course of a month or so though and compare it against the Multi-Router. I'm a Felder owner, but most likely would choose the LBM-200 over the Felder FD-250.

Watch for a used Multi-Router. Both my uncle and I were able to get Multi-Routers used. Mine was $1500--virtually brand new, and his was $1200, a few years old, but fully outfitted with air clamps etc. Both were craigslist finds and purchased within the past year.

For furniture making--in my opinion--the Multi-Router wins hands down if you are after making perfectly matched mortises. I use my Multi-Router on virtually every piece of furniture.

Remember too, that two smaller mortises are stronger than one large one!

Also, read the article "Mortisers for All Budgets" in Fine Woodworking. The author tested several differing mortisers, and for his personal choices, he chose the Multi-Router as his favorite method.

Greg

[Gary Curtis]

Richard, I bought a machine that mimics the Euro combo machines. It is the INCA tabelsaw from Switzerland. I had the chance to buy their mortising table attachment, but chose not to.

On an INCA forum, most of the guys who have the mortiser don't use it. Like the attachment for a MiniMax or Felder, it sits near the floor and thus is somewhat awkward to use. A chuck on the end of the saw arbor takes router bits and does the cutting.

Luckily for you, endmill bits made for machinine shops work fine and DO cut a mortise 2-inches or more in depth. They come in odd shank sizes, but I found some that would fit my DeWalt 625 router. I use the DeWalt in a device called the WoodRat that acts much like the Multi Router. A look-alike device called the Router Boss (at the same price) has better capabilities including DRO and laser guides.

Either machine would suit you because instead of hogging valuable bench or floor space, they mount on the wall and don't need crazy clearances.
There is a forum for both machines at www.chipsfly.com.

Gary Curtis

[Peter Quinn]

I haven't used a multi router but I have never heard a bad thing about them from an owner or user. It seems to me they won't have the capacity of an industrial slot mortiser at the larger end of the scale, or even of my cheap Laguna mortiser (I have the beta version modeled after the Rojek), but they look like a very well designed tool for furniture sized mortises. I have purchased spiral upcuts from Onsrud for mortising with a plunge router that give you a 3" depth, so that might cover most mortises you would encounter short of real big millwork items. And maybe the mortising bits for the PC door mortiser will work too? Those will handle about any mortise I have ever seen. I always hear that the multi router can do lots of interesting things, but it seems beyond the price of entry you have to buy lots of expensive little template sets to accomplish these interesting things, so the real cost is higher if you want to maximize it?

I looked at the multi router but went with a slot mortiser based partly on price; mine was cheap but serviceable and doubles as a doweling machine. It is easy to set up, a bit clunky in operation but fairly accurate. Another reason I went with a slot mortiser was noise. A router is a router. I can run my mortiser without earplugs in a pinch, I won't even turn my big PC router on without head phones on. And the slot mortiser makes chips, the router makes a mess. Those two features can't be avoided and are things I can live without personally.

Any chance you can try one of each at a local shop?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Richard, one other thing to consider, from a add on Felder mortiser owner, that mortiser hanging on the jointer spindle side of your machine will be in the way for some planning and jointing, so you'll want to remove it periodically. They are heavy and hard to hang onto, so the use of a dedicated cart is almost mandantory. This works fine, and the mortiser is a good tool, but remember to budget the space when it is being stored off of the machine.

As for the angled mortises, seems to me that simple jigs may be in order. One of the reasons that I bought a slot mortiser was simplicity. There is nothing complicated about one, and I would think that they would be quicker to set up for a particular job. I have never used a multirouter though, so just speculating on that last item.

[Wes Grass]

The Felder stand alone mortiser offers the option of using hollow chisels, at a fairly steep price. You don't get that with an add-on AFAIK. All things considered, I think I'd stick with the mortiser you have if you can find a place to stash it. You're already familiar with it and a slot mortiser is going to force you to round over all of your tenons or make/use floating tenons. At which point, maybe a Domino is a simpler more compact option.

[Frank Drew]

I like slot mortising, by whatever method... a plunge router with a jig, multirouter, a dedicated stand-alone machine, whatever. Way more efficient, IMO, than the other methods of cutting mortises.

I agree with Peter Quinn's analysis of the pros and cons of the multirouter vs. a dedicated machine; like him, I went the latter route, but that was after a good bit of time being reasonably satisfied using a plunge router with a jig. There was a version of the multirouter available at the time I bought my slot mortiser, and I considered it, but it seemed expensive for what it was (just the fixture without the router) and in the end I was very glad I bought the machine I did (an Italian-made CM72-TG).

[Jeff Duncan]

I guess my slot mortiser is a fake since it has a moving table:( But I bought an Italian machine (Bini) that works very nicely for my needs. These machines start at about $5k new and can do some impressive work. In actuality most of the stand alone mortisers I've looked at have moving tables. The question is do you need one in a hobby shop:confused: I'm guessing probably not. Oh and by the way, real mortising tooling is far from expensive, (I don't know where some people get their information???) I spend all of $14 - $30 for an average cutter.
I haven't had a chance to see the Laguna machine firsthand but from what I've heard from other guys is you get what you pay for. I've also heard the attachment versions are less than stellar. I looked into all these options before I bought mine. (My jointer is set up to receive a slot mortising attachment). But took advice from several other sources and went with the stand alone machine.
My first thought would be to keep your current mortiser since 1) you have it. 2) you say you use it often. 3) it doesn't cost you anything to keep it. Personally I'd have a hard time shelling out $2500 (is that what they cost???) for a router fixture to use for hobby work, but thats just me.Ultimately you have to decide on your needs and what your willing to spend.
good luck,
JeffD

[Richard Link]

Just wanted to thank everyone for all their input. This was a very helpful thread for me.

At this point, I am leaning toward either just keeping the current hollow chisel mortiser or perhaps springing for a multirouter if one appears on the used market at a discount. The hollow chisel machine is pretty big and consumes valuable space for what is essentially a one-trick pony. My guess is that both a dedicated slot mortiser or the attachment for the combo machine would be more versatile but wouldn't be any improvement from a space standpoint.

Thanks again.

[Peter Quinn]

Oh and by the way, real mortising tooling is far from expensive, (I don't know where some people get their information???) I spend all of $14 - $30 for an average cutter. JeffD

Jeff, I think what Mike was talking about was the Garniga long solid carbide mortising bits. The Onsrud bird's beaks are cheap enough as are some end mills, and both work well for me for average sized mortises in solid wood f average density. I guess you can get some pretty big and long end mills too. I have a few of those Garniga cutters myself; they are beautiful, they work great, they will mortise anything without rapid failure, but they do get rich quick. $70-$110 each depending on size IIR. They look like two flute roughing mills with deeper gullets for chip removal if you haven't seen them.

[Jeff Duncan]

Peter, I haven't seen the Garniga one's though I'm sure they're nice. I did talk to the guys at Onsrud and they're very helpful. After talking with them I ended up trying out several types of end mills from MSC and found that a 2 flute center cutting spiral does the trick, and for what 1 Onsrud bit would cost I can buy 4-6 end mills. Most of my slots are in the 3/8" - 1/2" range in Oak and Maple, though I have tried out the 5/8" (chuck max).
As for the birdsmouth bits, I've heard contradictory opinions on them so I haven't tried them yet.
I think it was the "real mortisers move the head not table" comment that rubbed me the wrong way;)

JeffD

[Frank Drew]

I think it was the "real mortisers move the head not table" comment that rubbed me the wrong way;)


On my machine the head went in and out, the table left and right. Of course, it wasn't as fast as an oscillating spindle production machine, but it was a "real" mortiser.