Is it a jointer or joiner?

[Larry Browning]

This has always been a question in my mind. When I look at a magazine ad it usually say jointer but I have also seen it called a joiner. Either name seems sorta weird to me any way, considering what it's purpose is. Anybody know how this machine got it's name? Seems to me this machine should have the word plane in it's name somewhere.
Also, what is the process called to use this machine? Do you "join" a board by running a board through it? Or does one "joint" a board? My wife, the English teacher, says you can't "joint" a board because "joint" is a noun and is never used as a verb.

Just wondering......

[Chuck Wintle]

This has always been a question in my mind. When I look at a magazine ad it usually say jointer but I have also seen it called a joiner. Either name seems sorta weird to me any way, considering what it's purpose is. Anybody know how this machine got it's name? Seems to me this machine should have the word plane in it's name somewhere.
Also, what is the process called to use this machine? Do you "join" a board by running a board through it? Or does one "joint" a board? My wife, the English teacher, says you can't "joint" a board because "joint" is a noun and is never used as a verb.

Just wondering......
I've always called it a jointer and, in my opinion, this is correct terminology. One of the beauties of the English language is its flexibility. Your wife should know this.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

A jointer is used to join wood. The person who does this activity is a joiner. The machine used is a jointer. Neander types use a jointer plane for long edges. What does a joiner do? A joiner makes wood joints without the aid of nails, screws or any other types of mechanical fastener. I hope this quick explanation helps; it's time to leave for the pizza joint in town--I'm hungry.:)


Addendum: You do join wood; you do not joint it. The process, either with hand tool or machine, is properly called joining.

[Eric Larsen]

On a similar vein, I love how a rebate plane is pronounced "rabbit." And how you can drive down Route 101 to buy a router and then route grooves in the box you're going to give your son for his paper route.

+1 for "jointer" :D

[Larry Browning]

One of the beauties of the English language is its flexibility. Your wife should know this.

So, are you saying that the process is to joint a board?

I relayed your response to my wife and she said "The English language has hard and fast rules; people who use or abuse the English language believe rules are made to be broken. Some may refer to this as flexibility." (She's pretty old school)

[Steve Clardy]

i've always called it a jointer and, in my opinion, this is correct terminology. One of the beauties of the english language is its flexibility. Your wife should know this.




+1...........

[Larry Browning]

On a similar vein, I love how a rebate plane is pronounced "rabbit." And how you can drive down Route 101 to buy a router and then route grooves in the box you're going to give your son for his paper route.

+1 for "jointer" :D

Hey, let's keep this thread going down the route it is on.:D Let's tackle one word problem at a time.

[Larry Browning]

Ok, I think we have established that the machine is a joinTer. Ron however brings up a another interesting point that the person operating it is a joiner, which, I suppose could lead us to saying that the process would be to join a board on the jointer.

He also is trying to connect the machine to a type of hand plane. This is curious link.

So Ron, you seem to be pretty sure of your terminology. Just curious as to your source of this knowledge.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Ok, I think we have established that the machine is a joinTer. Ron however brings up a another interesting point that the person operating it is a joiner, which, I suppose could lead us to saying that the process would be to join a board on the jointer.

He also is trying to connect the machine to a type of hand plane. This is curious link.

So Ron, you seem to be pretty sure of your terminology. Just curious as to your source of this knowledge.

I have read quite a bit about this activity we call woodworking. This spring I finished my 41st year as an industrial arts/technology teacher; many of those years included teaching woods classes of some type.

[Mike Gager]

On a similar vein, I love how a rebate plane is pronounced "rabbit." And how you can drive down Route 101 to buy a router and then route grooves in the box you're going to give your son for his paper route.

+1 for "jointer" :D

oddly enough ive heard several folks from england pronounce it as its spelled or re-bate as in a rebate or refund after a purchase

never understood why its called a "rabbit"

[Chuck Wintle]

So, are you saying that the process is to joint a board?

I relayed your response to my wife and she said "The English language has hard and fast rules; people who use or abuse the English language believe rules are made to be broken. Some may refer to this as flexibility." (She's pretty old school)

I agree there are rules of grammar that must be followed and , yes, in that sense the rules are there to be followed. But words and meanings change with time and generations so who can actually say just what is exactly correct at any given time. Every year about 25,000 new words are added to the english language.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Uh Oh! Now we have two teachers disagreeing?

I'm gonna get some popcorn. This will get interesting.:eek:


Larry if I was you, I'd let your wife argue out with Ron so you don't get caught in the middle!:rolleyes:

Pass the butter please.

[Larry Browning]

I have read quite a bit about this activity we call woodworking. This spring I finished my 41st year as an industrial arts/technology teacher; many of those years included teaching woods classes of some type.

Cool, sounds like you should know then.

The name jointer just seems so odd for a machine that actually does a planing ( 1 or 2 n's?) operation. It is used to flatten a surface not make a joint. I guess using it on the edge of boards to make butt joints is one task it does, but it is mostly used to flatten a surface using a planing action. Calling it a jointer seems like such a stretch. So I wonder why it does not have the word plane in its name?

I'm jus sayin..... seems odd

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Uh Oh! Now we have two teachers disagreeing?

I'm gonna get some popcorn. This will get interesting.:eek:


Larry if I was you, I'd let your wife argue out with Ron so you don't get caught in the middle!:rolleyes:

Pass the butter please.

No Ken--I think Larry's wife and I agree on the terminology in question here. Where do we differ?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

No Ken--I think Larry's wife and I agree on the terminology in question here. Where do we differ?


After rereading the posts, I agree!


Just as well....I couldn't find any popcorn anyway!;)

[Larry Browning]

Uh Oh! Now we have two teachers disagreeing?

I'm gonna get some popcorn. This will get interesting.:eek:


Larry if I was you, I'd let your wife argue out with Ron so you don't get caught in the middle!:rolleyes:

Pass the butter please.

Ken, I think she is disagreeing with Charles, not Ron. And even then, not too sure she is completely disagreeing with him either. She is just saying that joint is a noun, and should never be used as a verb. Which is consistent with what Ron is saying. Not sure what Charles thinks the process is called though.

the wife left the room, so I have to come up with this stuff on my own:eek:

[Steve Clardy]

Cool, sounds like you should know then.

The name jointer just seems so odd for a machine that actually does a planing ( 1 or 2 n's?) operation. It is used to flatten a surface not make a joint. I guess using it on the edge of boards to make butt joints is one task it does, but it is mostly used to flatten a surface using a planing action. Calling it a jointer seems like such a stretch. So I wonder why it does not have the word plane in its name?

I'm jus sayin..... seems odd


If I remember correctly, Sears used to market their 6" jointer as a jointer/planer

[Stephen Musial]

Ken, I think she is disagreeing with Charles, not Ron. And even then, not too sure she is completely disagreeing with him either. She is just saying that joint is a noun, and should never be used as a verb. Which is consistent with what Ron is saying. Not sure what Charles thinks the process is called though.

the wife left the room, so I have to come up with this stuff on my own:eek:


Never? What about when it is a verb?

–verb (used with object)

20. to unite by a joint or joints.
21. to form or provide with a joint or joints.
22. to cut (a fowl, piece of meat, etc.) at the joint; divide at a joint; separate into pieces at the joints: to joint a chicken.
23. Carpentry. a. to prepare (a board or the like) for fitting in a joint. b. to true the bottom of (a wooden plane body) to allow even movement along the surface of the work.
24. to file the teeth of (a saw) to uniform height.
25. Masonry. to finish (a mortar joint), as by striking.

–verb (used without object) 26. to fit together by or as if by joints: The cinder blocks jointed neatly.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/joint

[Brian Kent]

[QUOTE=Ron Jones near Indy;1168495] it's time to leave for the pizza joint in town--I'm hungry.:)

I'll join you.

[Darius Ferlas]

So, are you saying that the process is to joint a board?
Larry, a process is not always necessarily in the name of the tool that facilitates that process. Note the word "airplane". Did you ever airplane, or did you fly? If you flew, was it by means of a flier?

Lotsa little trick like that in all languages.

We are dealing with specialized vocabulary. Computer admins often have to kill in violation of the 7th Commandment. Some errand processes have to be killed to regain the control of the computer. Such aberrant actions in computing are often reported by daemons (in UNIX or Linux)which are considered important and useful by most IT people.

As for the topic itself, there are both tools out there jonters and (biscuit) joiners.

[glenn bradley]

I use a jointer to joint the face or edge of a board.

[Norman Hitt]

I use a jointer to joint the face or edge of a board.

I do the SAME. In all of my 71 + years, I had NEVER even heard the word Joiner used with a plane (either powered or neander) until maybe 7 or 8 years ago on one of the WW forums, (and then it was from a newbie and I just figured he didn't know how to spell it). The Jointer/Planer or Jointer Plane was so named because it prepares a "Joint", which is then "Joined" when you Glue, Screw, nail bolt or use some other magical method to "Join" it together with another part. Over the years, the word Planer has mostly been dropped and only Jointer is used, whereas the "Thickness" (or Surface Planer as it was sometimes called), has mostly dropped the Thickness or Surface word and now is just called a Planer, therefore these Single words of Jointer or Planer differentiate between the two types of planing the machines do. Many tools are named for the work they do AND can be named with ANY word the inventor so desires, just like names for people, whether language purists like it or not, it's a fact of life.:D

[Larry Browning]

I use a jointer to joint the face or edge of a board.

So, you disagree with Ron, who says that he uses a jointer to join the face or edge of a board.

Just stirring the pot a bit:D

[Larry Browning]

The Jointer/Planer or Jointer Plane was so named because it prepares a "Joint", which is then "Joined" when you Glue, Screw, nail bolt or use some other magical method to "Join" it together with another part. Over the years, the word Planer has mostly been dropped and only Jointer is used, whereas the "Thickness" (or Surface Planer as it was sometimes called), has mostly dropped the Thickness or Surface word and now is just called a Planer, therefore these Single words of Jointer or Planer differentiate between the two types of planing the machines do.

So, it originally DID have the word plane in the name. See, that there is interesting to me.

[Larry Browning]

Never? What about when it is a verb?

–verb (used with object)

20. to unite by a joint or joints.
21. to form or provide with a joint or joints.
22. to cut (a fowl, piece of meat, etc.) at the joint; divide at a joint; separate into pieces at the joints: to joint a chicken.
23. Carpentry. a. to prepare (a board or the like) for fitting in a joint. b. to true the bottom of (a wooden plane body) to allow even movement along the surface of the work.
24. to file the teeth of (a saw) to uniform height.
25. Masonry. to finish (a mortar joint), as by striking.

–verb (used without object) 26. to fit together by or as if by joints: The cinder blocks jointed neatly.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/joint

I will show this to the wife. Maybe she is wrong??? The ice is starting to get pretty thin here:eek: (for me any way!)

I showed this to the wife. she said, "Well, good! I'm proud of that guy, he took the effort to look it up in the dictionary. My job is done here."
Man, she IS a teacher!:rolleyes:

[Billy Chambless]

Cool, sounds like you should know then.

The name jointer just seems so odd for a machine that actually does a planing ( 1 or 2 n's?) operation. It is used to flatten a surface not make a joint. I guess using it on the edge of boards to make butt joints is one task it does, but it is mostly used to flatten a surface using a planing action. Calling it a jointer seems like such a stretch. So I wonder why it does not have the word plane in its name?

I'm jus sayin..... seems odd

I think they do call it a planer in the UK, and call the machine we in the US call a "planer" a "thicknesser".

I would surmise that calling it a jointer comes from it being more or less a replacement for the jointer plane.

edited to add: How did I miss Norman's reply? He said it better than I did.

[David Freed]

On a similar vein, I love how a rebate plane is pronounced "rabbit."

+1 for "jointer" :D

It is pronounced rabbet, not rabbit. I had to look up what a rebate plane was. I had never heard that term before this thread. Here is an excerpt of what I found.

"The rebate plane (also known as the rabbet plane) is a hand plane designed for cutting rebates in wood."


I had NEVER even heard the word Joiner used with a plane (either powered or neander) until maybe 7 or 8 years ago on one of the WW forums, (and then it was from a newbie and I just figured he didn't know how to spell it).

Same story here.

[David Freed]

On a similar vein, I love how a rebate plane is pronounced "rabbit."

+1 for "jointer" :D


It is pronounced rabbet, not rabbit. I had to look up what a rebate plane was. I had never heard that term before reading this thread. Here is an excerpt of what I found.

"The rebate plane (also known as the rabbet plane) is a hand plane designed for cutting rebates (rabbets) in wood."



I had NEVER even heard the word Joiner used with a plane (either powered or neander) until maybe 7 or 8 years ago on one of the WW forums, (and then it was from a newbie and I just figured he didn't know how to spell it).

Same story here.

[Jason Roehl]

I believe 'rebate' is of British English origins, and 'rabbet' is the Americanized version of the former. I had never heard 'rebate' until just a few years ago on one of the WW boards, probably this one, and I believe it was from an English chap.

[Paul Ryan]

So then, If I am holding 2 pieces of fruit that happen to be bartlet pears.

Do I have a pair of pears, or 2 pears?

[Brian Brown]

So then, If I am holding 2 pieces of fruit that happen to be bartlet pears.

Do I have a pair of pears, or 2 pears?

Paul,

You have one Pair! :D

[Leigh Betsch]

I'd join in but all this english stuff is just plain over my head.

[Brian Brown]

"The English language has hard and fast rules.

Yes, Like I before E except after C, except when it's E before I even after a C, or except in english speaking countries where it is spelled differently, or except... oh forget it. No wonder I failed english.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

So then, If I am holding 2 pieces of fruit that happen to be bartlet pears.

Do I have a pair of pears, or 2 pears?

..............Yes!

[Paul Ryan]

I have no idea how foreigners learn to write english. I still can't an I have lived hear all of my life and I had 18 years of english taught to me.

By the way I forgot about 1 pair! Good one!

[Rod Sheridan]

North American usage seems to have been corrupted (or evolved depending upon your viewpoint) from European usage.

In North America it's called a jointer, although the function it performs is planing, since it establishes a plane on the surface of the wood. Hence planer in English usage.

A North American planer does not do this, it produces wood of a uniform thickness, as the European name implies.

My FIL is a retired English Master Cabinet Maker, so of course his use is rebate, as is fairly common in Canada.

Of course he also distinguishes between grooves and dadoes, and of course rebates.

I would be interested in comments from people who have a formal education in furniture making, do you find that terminology is "slipping" in general?

Regards, Rod.

[phil harold]

In in english it is pronounced planer
In americanish it is jointer

[Jason Roehl]

North American usage seems to have been corrupted (or evolved depending upon your viewpoint) from European usage.

Or "purposefully distinguished", along the lines of colour v. color, honour v. honor.


In North America it's called a jointer, although the function it performs is planing, since it establishes a plane on the surface of the wood. Hence planer in English usage.

But we also use it for edge jointing (or joining, if you prefer).


A North American planer does not do this, it produces wood of a uniform thickness, as the European name implies.

With sleds and shims once can use a thickness planer for establishing a plane on one surface.


My FIL is a retired English Master Cabinet Maker, so of course his use is rebate, as is fairly common in Canada.

Of course he also distinguishes between grooves and dadoes, and of course rebates.

I would be interested in comments from people who have a formal education in furniture making, do you find that terminology is "slipping" in general?

Regards, Rod.

No formal training here, just been reading this and other forums religiously for quite a few years now. Any "slippage" of terminology in woodworking I think only mirrors what is happening in (American) society in general. Twenty years ago, I held journalism in fairly high regard with respect to their copy editors--their spelling and grammar was excellent. Now I wonder if any news organizations even employ copy editors beyond using their computers' built-in spell-checkers, which can't distinguish between 'affect' and 'effect, or 'there' and 'their'.

[Stephen Musial]

North American usage seems to have been corrupted (or evolved depending upon your viewpoint) from European usage.

In North America it's called a jointer, although the function it performs is planing, since it establishes a plane on the surface of the wood. Hence planer in English usage.

A North American planer does not do this, it produces wood of a uniform thickness, as the European name implies.

My FIL is a retired English Master Cabinet Maker, so of course his use is rebate, as is fairly common in Canada.

Of course he also distinguishes between grooves and dadoes, and of course rebates.

I would be interested in comments from people who have a formal education in furniture making, do you find that terminology is "slipping" in general?

Regards, Rod.


Out of curiosity - what is a Stanley 7 called - a planer plane? :D

I know it's a try plane - so why isn't the machine called a tryer?

[Rod Sheridan]

Or "purposefully distinguished", along the lines of colour v. color, honour v. honor.



But we also use it for edge jointing (or joining, if you prefer).



With sleds and shims once can use a thickness planer for establishing a plane on one surface.



No formal training here, just been reading this and other forums religiously for quite a few years now. Any "slippage" of terminology in woodworking I think only mirrors what is happening in (American) society in general. Twenty years ago, I held journalism in fairly high regard with respect to their copy editors--their spelling and grammar was excellent. Now I wonder if any news organizations even employ copy editors beyond using their computers' built-in spell-checkers, which can't distinguish between 'affect' and 'effect, or 'there' and 'their'.

Hi Jason, I often wonder about editors as well, in fact my daughter is an editor and she often rolls her eyes at my comments.

I recently wrote a letter to the CBC radio station as many of their announcers used the word Febuary instead of February, I wonder if that miss pronunciation will "evolve" into common usage.

I'm curious about your comment regarding the loss of the letter U in many American words. Was it a deliberate change to distinguish the new American language from it's English roots or did it happen gradually?

Thanks for the comments..........Regards, Rod.

[Jason Roehl]

Rod, what I recall reading in the past is that (and confirmed by a Wikipedia article on Webster's Dictionary) is that Noah Webster published his first dictionary in the U.S. with Americanized spellings for the purpose of distinction from British English.

Of course, sometimes the differences make for some humorous situations. When my little brother was in 4th grade, there was a British boy in his class. The teacher was taken aback when he asked for an eraser--using the British name for it, also its primary ingredient: "Teacher, may I have a ...?" Our mothers were also friends, so one time when she called, she asked, "Helloisyourmumthere?" I had her repeat it 3-4 times, still not understanding her. Finally, she asked, much more slowly, "Is YOUR MOTHER home?"

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, what I recall reading in the past is that (and confirmed by a Wikipedia article on Webster's Dictionary) is that Noah Webster published his first dictionary in the U.S. with Americanized spellings for the purpose of distinction from British English.

Of course, sometimes the differences make for some humorous situations. When my little brother was in 4th grade, there was a British boy in his class. The teacher was taken aback when he asked for an eraser--using the British name for it, also its primary ingredient: "Teacher, may I have a ...?" Our mothers were also friends, so one time when she called, she asked, "Helloisyourmumthere?" I had her repeat it 3-4 times, still not understanding her. Finally, she asked, much more slowly, "Is YOUR MOTHER home?"

Thanks Jason, that's interesting information about the dictionary.

I always thought that the measuring system in America had evolved from the British system, however that wasn't accurate.

In the measurement system, Britain updated their system after the Revolutionary War, and of course America no longer being a crown colony, didn't update the measuring system.

It's interesting, and understandable that America would develop a distinct American "Slang", also distinct from the Canadian "Slang" I speak. (At least according to my wife who's from Barnstaple, Devon).

Regards, Rod.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I think a "joiner" is a tradesman whose primary focus is the art of "joinery."

[Rod Sheridan]

I think a "joiner" is a tradesman whose primary focus is the art of "joinery."

That's correct, I lived next door to a Scottish gentleman who was joiner, and had a journeyman's certificate as such.

Regards, Rod.

[Billy Chambless]

I think a "joiner" is a tradesman whose primary focus is the art of "joinery."


So a "biscuit joiner" would be such a tradesman who Will Work for Food?