HVAC Experts

[Tyler Howell]

Hey Folks,
It's really me. Not dead yet.
Trying to save the whale, hug a tree and prevent global warming.

Going for a new hi efficiency boiler for my home. Maybe scarf in a wood furnace or solar panels down the road.
Vender is offering a Munchkin Contender 80K BTU 90% + for the boiler.
Actually going for 2 zones. 2nd zone is going to power a Amtrol AWH41 hotwater maker.
No history with either unit and was hoping you might have a yea or nea:confused:

Life is good, got my limit of 20" walleye and lake trout last trips out.
Putting in a lot of sail time even if we are wearing ski parkas.

TIA

TJH

[Paul Ryan]

Tyler,

I don't know much about the set up you are after. What I do know is munchkin boilers are the cat's hind end. You can do so much with those boilers, they are very smart. Effciency is pretty good too. Is it LP or natural gas. LP prices are low right now but dont expect them to stay there. I changed over to electricity last year and couldn't be happier. Even though we had an exceptionally cold and long winter my heating costs we down in the rang they were in 2002, when I paid .95 a gallon for LP.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hey Folks,
It's really me. Not dead yet.
Trying to save the whale, hug a tree and prevent global warming.

Going for a new hi efficiency boiler for my home. Maybe scarf in a wood furnace or solar panels down the road.
Vender is offering a Munchkin Contender 80K BTU 90% + for the boiler.
Actually going for 2 zones. 2nd zone is going to power a Amtrol AWH41 hotwater maker.
No history with either unit and was hoping you might have a yea or nea:confused:

Life is good, got my limit of 20" walleye and lake trout last trips out.
Putting in a lot of sail time even if we are wearing ski parkas.

TIA

TJH

Uh...Tyler who? Must be some new guy! Well new guy....don't you think this should be listed as a gloat!:confused:


Nice to see you posting Tyler! I was quoting your Mom the other day and gave her due credit.

[Tom Godley]

The new direct vent wall hung units are very nice - Munchkin has a good reputation. SS heat exchanger.

I would do a little research on the indirect -- I know that Amtrol was no longer rated as highly as they once were when I was looking about a year ago.

[Joe Mioux]

I seem to remember that there was once a guy Minnesota that posted frequently here. I also seem to remember that person was a pretty good picture cop. You sort of remind me of him.

lol

Hi tyler. glad to see life is treating you well. I just read the boiler information. That is pretty much how I have my big greenhouses set up. The boiler will fire only after there is a 20 degree temp differential on the return side. Is this a sealed unit...i.e. will it take cold air from the outside for combustion?

Also, there are other boilers out there that can reach as highas 99.8pct efficiency, Hamilton Engineering is one, but I don't know if they make residential boilers.

[Eddie Watkins]

Life is good, got my limit of 20" walleye and lake trout last trips out.
Putting in a lot of sail time even if we are wearing ski parkas.

No pictures, it didn't happen.:) Good to hear from you. Sounds like retirement is keeping you busy.

[Tyler Howell]

I knew I was going to get it when I mentioned fish
check this!!!;)

Thanks Guys for the info.

It is a hi efficiency unit through the wall vent, external combustion air. Closed loop system.
LP.
Taken a couple of solar classes, and I have a super insulater home.
Heating mostly with wood.
Trying to get off the grid.
Electricity is going through the roof up here.

[Steve Clardy]

Sir Tyler looks fishy to me. :D

[Frank Hagan]

The heat exchanger in a Munchkin is made by Giaonni (something like that) in Italy, and is found in several different boilers. I used to work for Laars who has brought out a similar model after I left, using the same heat exchanger.

There are a couple of things to look out for. You will get higher efficiency on the hot water side of a combo boiler because you are heating water from below 70° to 120° or more, and as long as the water is below about 110° you are in the high efficiency zone (the 98% efficiency they talk about). You will not get that high on hydronic heating where the water is kept at 140 - 180°. Your efficiency will be at the non-condensing range of about 88%. See the article at this link (http://hpac.com/popular/small_boiler_efficiency/) for more of the technical explanation.

The sales people will typically sell the unit on the 96 or 98% promise, but you'll never see that with hydronic heat (well, you will when you first fire it up in the season, but not after that initial firing). An 84% conventional hydronic boiler is usually thousands of dollars less, with much less expensive venting, installation and maintenance costs. Your payback has to be calculated at about 4% better performance rather than the 10 - 12% they promise. Take your gas bill for last year, multiply by 4%, and that's a rough estimate of how much you will save over a modern conventional boiler. You may find it is a very long payback time.

Also ask to talk to owners who have had one installed for more than two years in your area. They had some problems with blower wheels flying apart and water intrusion through the vent shorting things out early on in 1995 or so, but I'm sure they have solved those issues by now. The direct spark design of the Munchkin seems to be pretty good (ignitors are a weak link in many of the boilers, so a spark ignitor is a better bet than a hot surface ignitor). Repair costs are higher on the more complex products, so that's a factor you should consider.

[Jerry Bruette]

Tyler

I've been using an Amtrol clone for 21 years to heat my domestic water and love it. Never run out of hot water even when washing clothes and showering at the same time ... even when the kids were at home.

I think you'll be happy with a indirect fired water heater.

Jerry

[Al Willits]

You get my email Tyler?

If not, the condensing boilers are not all that reliable in many cases, we seem to be seeing shorter chamber life and electronic/board problems with them, not something you want to pay that much money for, go non condensing imho

This is a back up source of heat it sounds like, and not sure with repairs and extra cost of the unit how long it'd take to recoup the cost.

Al

[Chris Damm]

I was looking into the Munchkin after a buddy installed one. They looked pretty good on paper but when I went to the dealer to inquire about getting one, they told me that they had dicontinued selling them because of too many complaints and high warranty costs. Back to square one on the search.

[Frank Hagan]

Again, if you are running hydronic, baseboard or radiator heat and expect to keep the water in the system above 110°F (in floor hydronic is usually at 140°F), you will not realize much in energy savings with the condensing boilers. Your payback time will be decades rather than years.

If you are running a water heater, where inlet water is the typical 50 - 60°F, then a condensing water heater might make sense (at least from an energy use standpoint). Your hybrid system will not see the lower temps required except when you're not heating the house in summer, etc.

Its your money, but spending an extra $5 grand to get 2 - 3% energy savings doesn't make a lot of sense to me.