Forrest problems!?

[John Miliunas]

Yikes! :eek: Yeah, you read that right! Not real happy with my WWII right now. It's been a super blade, with beautiful cuts, but today, horrors! :eek: I was crosscutting some Purple-heart, only about 1-1/8" thick for a frame. Using the Smart Miter along with the off-cut table, when all of a sudden..."ZING" goes the cut-off piece right at the end of the cut! "What???" Needless to say, I stopped the saw and started checking for obvious mis-queues. The Smart Miter and cut-off sled were both properly seated, the blade was at a dead-90* to the table. Everything appeared solid. I figured that maybe I didn't have hold of the piece well enough, so I mounted the hold-down on the jig and tried the next piece. "ZING"!!!! Off come the sleds and I inspect the blade. Sure as shootin', one of the carbide tips was clean off the blade! :mad: Mind you, this blade hasn't seen that much use and it's still plenty sharp. REAL sharp, for that matter! There has never been a used piece of wood run across the blade, no treated stuff and I even metal-check stock I get from my local supplier. I've run probably several thousand feet of stock through my previous Systi-Matics and, even though they may have gotten a bit dull faster, I've never had a tip get blown off!

Anybody else ever have this happen with their Forrest? After paying $100+ for a blade about 7 months ago, I'm not too thrilled with having to pay more $$ for 2-way shipping, plus the cost of replacing the tip. :mad: I suppose it probably wouldn't be recommended to take it to my local sharpening service? I'm open to suggestions by all those wiser and more experienced than I! :cool:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

John, I think Forrest had some issues with some Carbide that didn't meet their usual quality control standards. If you return the blade to them, they will either replace the blade or braze all new Carbide tips on it for ya. It was either a blade with bad Carbide, or a faulty braze joint. Either way, I am sure the good folks at Forrest will stand behind the product. Maybe a phone call to them to explain the situation will give them a heads up before the blade arrives. Good thing you weren't hurt........that is the most important thing!

[Mark Singer]

John,
I made one stool with purple heart....and I won't work with the wood again...its very hard and tends to burn. I have the WWII , a Dewalt , and a Mastercut (fine blade from Japan) they all cut very good! The Dewalt was tested and came close to matching the Forrest!

[Dennis Peacock]

Wow John!!! I hate to hear that about the WWII blade. I'm sure the folks at Forrest will take good care of you. I've never had a WWII blade but I sure like the Amana and Everlast blades I do use. They're not any cheaper, but boy do they evey cut nice. Even after a years worth of use...they still cut clean today. I'm gonna hafta try me one of those WWII blades one of these days.

[Jim Becker]

John, call Tony on Monday and 'splain the situation. I'm sure they will take care of you.

[Waymon Campbell]

John - Sorry to hear about your blade. May I ask what your blade cleaning regimen is? I have heard of some cleaners causing problems for the braising on the carbide tips.

Anyway, come on down to the Central States BBQ in a few weeks and you have a chance to win a new one! :D

[John Miliunas]

Thanks guys! :) I've still got my Systi-Matic and a CMT, so I'm not completely dead in the water. Plus, *most* of my sawdust making lately has been with a portable circular saw and Sawzall! :(

Kevin, thanks for that bit of info! Don't know if mine will "qualify", as I don't know how they can determine that, but I hope it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg to find out! Like you say, though, I'm just glad I didn't "find" that bit of carbide the hard way! :eek:

Jim, call Tony who and where? I bought this one at my local Woodcraft.

Waymon, I've heard about the possible issues with various cleaners, but I go the bio-degradable route and use "Simple Green". Does a great job with little to no scrubbing and I don't have to worry about that caustic stuff in most of the other solutions.

Mark, Dennis, if this one doesn't pan out, I'm really tempted to go to a different OEM! Mark, which flavor of Dewalt is that? Sheeeesh...I really hate the thought of switching blades, 'cuz the WWII cuts so-o-o-o-o-o nice, but I sure as heck don't cherish the though of wrecking anymore wood or getting a piece of carbide stuck somewhere it doesn't belong! Thanks guys. Hopefully, Forrest will back up their product and I can put this behind me. :) :cool:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

John, I think Forrest will take care of you on that blade. I have cut exotics of all flavors with my WWII, and I have not had a problem. I have cut Purpleheart, and some as hard or harder. Me don't thinks it was you John!

[Mike Palmer]

John. I know how you feel when you spend big bucks for something and it doesn't live up to expectation. Down the road, check out the Amana Prestige blade it is a great all around blade and only costs 49.95. I think it cuts as good as a WWII and it is a heavier blade. More carbide less aand less deflection.

http://www.amanatool.com/prestige/details.htm

[John Miliunas]

John, I think Forrest will take care of you on that blade. I have cut exotics of all flavors with my WWII, and I have not had a problem. I have cut Purpleheart, and some as hard or harder. Me don't thinks it was you John!

Kev, hope you're right! Yeah, I've cut some Purpleheart on it before, as well. I like how it doesn't burn it as bad as some other blades. I'll see if I can't contact someone on it Monday. Thanks again! :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Jim, call Tony who and where? I bought this one at my local Woodcraft.
Tony at Forrest. Although I suspect that if you have a good relationship with your Woodcraft store, they might replace it...

[Jerry Olexa]

I too have had problems with my Forest WW2 Blade which surprised me esp having paid over $100 for the blade. When I called Forest, I was further disappointed as they said "send it them (at my expense) and they would look it over and maybe sharpen it or whatever( again @ my expense)". The cavalier attitude did not impress me. Hate to complain but I suppose I'm one of the unfortunate few w a bad experience w that blade. Their apathy didn't help matters either. Let me know how you make out, John. Normally, I believe in spending a litlle extra and the improved performance justifies the cost! Just venting...

[John Miliunas]

I too have had problems with my Forest WW2 Blade which surprised me esp having paid over $100 for the blade. When I called Forest, I was further disappointed as they said "send it them (at my expense) and they would look it over and maybe sharpen it or whatever( again @ my expense)". The cavalier attitude did not impress me. Hate to complain but I suppose I'm one of the unfortunate few w a bad experience w that blade. Their apathy didn't help matters either. Let me know how you make out, John. Normally, I believe in spending a litlle extra and the improved performance justifies the cost! Just venting...

OUCH! :eek: That's NOT good to hear! :mad: Did your blade blow a tip (or more)? It's really pretty sad that you were treated that way. Did you go forward with sending the unit in or not? You've got me a little scared here! I mean, I guess I can understand a company not replacing the blade for every person who complains, but I would think that, if there's *any* doubt regarding the user's safety, they should be concerned! Granted, I'm religious about using the overarm blade guard, splitter, push sticks and feather-boards, but in this case, I was using the SM sled, which precludes those other safety devices. Point being, if I or someone else had been in the path of that little blade tip as it flew off the blade, serious damage could've been had! NOT a good thing! :mad:

That said, I'll give them the shadow of a doubt. *ANY* manufacturing process can hardly ever be 100% on target 100% of the time. If they take care of the issue properly, all is good. If not, I'll consider it a lesson learned and take my business elsewhere. There are an awful lot of happy WW II users out there and I'm hoping this was just a fluke. We'll find out! :cool:

[Jerry Olexa]

John I did not blow a carbide tip. The blade (hopefully an exception) simply performs poorly or less than my expectations and certainly MUCH less than the blade they demo'd for me at WW Show which prompted me to buy it (+/_ $100). It's used (was) on my Delta Table saw w the standard safety devices. Usually use a panel sled or additional fence . I opted not to send back. Didn't want to put more money after bad. Don't be dismayed. Maybe you'll get better treatment. Let me know.:confused:

[David Rose]

I had a bad (?) experience with a Forrest Chopmaster blade. From new it had more tearout and deflection than a Dewalt blade that it replaced. Then I took a piece I cut with it to the BBQ at Terry Hatfield's. He cut the other end with a factory blade on a cheaper saw and it was like glass! What'm I doin' wrong? :o I had the blade for a while (mistake with any tool IMO) before I used it, so I didn't try to get factory help.

David who gets tooooo many "bad" tools

[John Miliunas]

Don't be dismayed. Maybe you'll get better treatment. Let me know.:confused:

I'll keep you posted, Jerry! Thanks for the info. :cool:

[John Miliunas]

I had a bad (?) experience with a Forrest Chopmaster blade. From new it had more tearout and deflection than a Dewalt blade that it replaced.

Egads, this is going from bad to worse! :( And don't I feel like a chump, 'cuz I've recommended Forrest blades to many other folks! I'm truly hoping this is just a fluke, albeit a potentially dangerous one. I've dropped them an email via their Web site. I'll see if and what kind of response I get there. I will probably call them on Monday, as well. For some, it may not be that big a deal, but for me, $100 bucks is a LOT of money! We'll see what happens with this one. :cool:

[David Rose]

John, I probably shouldn't have even posted. I can't seem to buy much that is right the first time around. :o I shouldn't say that. I *have* bought a lot of tools that were right. It just "feels" like I don't. :eek:

David

[Dennis Peacock]

Try and Everlast blade. Smooth as glass on the cut, even with a 40 tooth rip blade. Everlast has a Glue-Line Rip blade that is out of this world. I paid like $80 for my Everlast blade and I use an Everlast 80 tooth on my CMS that the cut is as smooth as glass. Never a problem with Everlast.

Oh, did I mention that you may want to try an Everlast blade? :p :rolleyes:

[aurelio alarcon]

Sounds like a manufacturing defect to me. Hey, with as many blades as these companies produce, its bound to happen every now and then. From the positive recommendations that this company has gotten on this web site alone, it is probably not a common matter.

[Mark Singer]

John,
The Dewalt blade is the DW 7657. I bought it at a WW show as a promotion for about $40. It was tested against the WWII in one ofthe magazines and the results were very close. In looking at both of them the Forrest teeth have thicker carbide. They cut almost the same.

Just found it at Amazon for $43.19! It might be good to have it as a spare even if you get the WWII problem worked out!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008K2TZ/ref=pd_ys_pym_a_1/102-5717658-8290535?v=glance

[John Miliunas]

Oh, fer cryin' out loud! The *LAST* time I took a lead from Dennis, I bought my first Festool piece and look where THAT got me! :D So Dennis, tell us how you *really* feel about Everlast! :)

Mark, I think I remember seeing/reading something about the comparison between the Dewalt and Forrest. Yeah, I might just have to do that as a backup to the Forrest. That is, if I can get that straightened out in the first place. :)

Aurelio, I have little doubt that it was/is a manufacturer defect! I just hope they stand behind it! :rolleyes:

Thanks for the comments/suggestions, gentlemen! I'll keep you posted. :cool:

[Dennis Peacock]

Oh, fer cryin' out loud! The *LAST* time I took a lead from Dennis, I bought my first Festool piece and look where THAT got me! :D So Dennis, tell us how you *really* feel about Everlast! :)

Thanks for the comments/suggestions, gentlemen! I'll keep you posted. :cool:

John,

Give Scott Whiting (old Badger Ponder) a holler. He own a sharpening service in AZ and does some of THE best sharpening that I have ever experienced. He also sells, Everlast, Amana, and Lenox....sawblades, sawblades and BS blades. NAJASC!!!!!

You will find his name, address and phone number at the top of <a href="http://home.alliancecable.net/~woodworker/woodworkers_resources.html">this page.</a>

[Gene Collison]

off!

Anybody else ever have this happen with their Forrest? After paying $100+ for a blade about 7 months ago, I'm not too thrilled with having to pay more $$ for 2-way shipping, plus the cost of replacing the tip. :mad: I suppose it probably wouldn't be recommended to take it to my local sharpening service? I'm open to suggestions by all those wiser and more experienced than I! :cool:[/QUOTE]
_______________________________________________

My Forrest WW2 shows inferior workmanship in the manner that the tips are silverbrazed to the blade. There are black oxides showing and the brazing alloy show signs of overheating or low quality brazing alloy. Also the tip fit to the blade body shows poor fit up, I talked to Forrest about it. Their excuse was the black oxides doesn't mean anything and the tip fit is acceptable without even seeing my blade. The person I talked to seemed well rehearsed on that particular complaint. Having worked in the welding field as a field welding applications specialist for more than 30 years, black oxides are a sure sign of an inferior braze job usually caused by poor fluxing or overheating the joint. All easy cured problems!
My personal conclusion is that the blades perform very well but there are other blades that perform very close if not equal at far less money and with better quality to boot.

Gene

[John Miliunas]

My Forrest WW2 shows inferior workmanship in the manner that the tips are silverbrazed to the blade. There are black oxides showing and the brazing alloy show signs of overheating or low quality brazing alloy. Also the tip fit to the blade body shows poor fit up, I talked to Forrest about it. Their excuse was the black oxides doesn't mean anything and the tip fit is acceptable without even seeing my blade. The person I talked to seemed well rehearsed on that particular complaint. Having worked in the welding field as a field welding applications specialist for more than 30 years, black oxides are a sure sign of an inferior braze job usually caused by poor fluxing or overheating the joint. All easy cured problems!
My personal conclusion is that the blades perform very well but there are other blades that perform very close if not equal at far less money and with better quality to boot.

Gene

OK, with all that knowledge in-hand, what's *your* recomendation on a well-made, quality blade? The points you make about the workmanship on the Forrest really have me concerned, as my daughter and LOML wander into the shop on a regular basis. Yes, while I'm at one of the machines, they keep their distance, but a piece of carbide flung off a blade and hitting just about anything is cause for great concern. Gene, your obvious knowledge on the structual aspect of a blade can go a long, LONG way to help ensure a safer shop! :) Many thanks for the post!!! :cool:

[Tim Morton]

Ya know John, it sounds like my saab experience. Once it broke down the first time i never felt comfortable driving it again and I traded it in shortly after that. Might be time for a new blade, and it sounds like Forrest might be cutting costs to boost profits at the expense of quality of product.I lost thousands on my Saab in repair bills, but I never felt better than the day I drove away in my new truck and left that thing behind. The most frustrating part is that you took the time and paid the money for "the best"...I hope they give you a new blade.....then will you trust that one or sell it ....and think about "what if" with the person who buys it. Good Luck with the whole thing.

[David Brown]

No more favors for people who want it milled either!

[Gene Collison]

OK, with all that knowledge in-hand, what's *your* recomendation on a well-made, quality blade? The points you make about the workmanship on the Forrest really have me concerned, as my daughter and LOML wander into the shop on a regular basis. Yes, while I'm at one of the machines, they keep their distance, but a piece of carbide flung off a blade and hitting just about anything is cause for great concern. Gene, your obvious knowledge on the structual aspect of a blade can go a long, LONG way to help ensure a safer shop! :) Many thanks for the post!!! :cool:

John,

I think Dewalt series 60, Amana, Ridge Carbide, Freud, CMT full kerf, in no particular order show quality construction, brazing as well as good performance. There are a ton of blades I haven't used, some have already been mentioned that I am sure would be equal to my selection. One thing I didn't mention in my first post is that the tensile strength of silver brazing alloy diminishes rapidly with a poor fitting tip, the tip contour should fit the contour of the blade , it should be a good fit. This is one of the complaints I have on my own Forrest, noticably poor fit!

Gene

[thomas prevost]

If any of you visited the "Oak" a few months ago there were major complaints in the forum about the Forrest blades. Tony knew how to end it. He gave CJ and a few other heavy weights free blades. Now Forrest can do no wrong. The Forrest I bought was warped even before I put it on the arbor. I just laid it on the saw table and it was up by about 1/16". Lucky Woodcraft stands behind their sales and replaced it. Feedback from Shaun the owner was I was not the first. Great design, but apparently very poor quality control in manufacturing. Just my 2 cents.

[John Miliunas]

Now you guys have REALLY got me thinking! (Yeah, I know....Dangerous! :rolleyes: ) I'm almost starting to think that maybe, just maybe, I should cut my losses now, before any REAL damage, particularly myself or any visitors in my shop can happen! :eek: The Dewalt keeps coming up in the discussion and I'm also a sucker for Dennis P.'s experience and recommendations. I may just decide to go with one of those. :) Still irritates and embarrasses me to no end knowing that, I've been using and recommending a blade costing nearly twice as much as other good blades, but lacks in one of the most important areas: QA!!! :mad: Good grief, if my John Deere starts acting up like this too, I'm giving up! Sell the joint, the shop tools, the JD and move into a condo somewhere. Maybe start practicing for the next All-World Tidally-Winks Championship or something exciting like that! :D Again, thanks for all the additional input! I'm for sure keeping my options open now! :cool:

[Jim Becker]

John, before you panic, keep in mind that you will "hear" about problems folks may have had with XYZ product/company louder and more often than you will hear about all the great experiences. It's just human nature. While I'm sad to hear about any problems folks have had with Forrest, my experience has been just the opposite and I own a total of 5 Forrest products at this point because of it. (I still have my Forrest TK blades from when I had a contractor's style saw, although I rarely use them)

And JDs have problems just like any other brand... :D

[Dave Hammelef]

John,
did you say you bought it at woodcraft. You can take anything you bought from them back with in 1 year. I believe no questions asked. But if they ask just smile and show them your missing tooth.

Dave

[John Miliunas]

Jim, I hear exactly where you're coming from! I learned long ago that in business, something good happens and one or two other folks will hear about it. If it's something bad, 10 or 20 times as many will hear about it! I've had issues in the past with "company XYZ" and have always given them the opportunity to make it right. After discussing it further with LOML, I can ill-afford to be spending more $$ on items for which I paid a premium and were supposed to be high quality and long-lasting. She did, however, agree that if Forrest doesn't make good on it, that it's not worth the possible risk factor and I should pursue another brand. I guess I'll see what happens tomorrow. :)

Dave, if Forrest isn't willing to do anything about it, I'll check with my friends at Woodcraft. Although I would greatly appreciate them helping out, I'd still like to see Forrest be answerable for their product. We'll see.... :cool:

[Steven Wilson]

John,

It's a great blade and even if they don't replace the tooth for free, have them install a new tooth and start cutting again.

[Dominic Greco]

John,
Sorry to hear about your blade! That definately sounds like a manufacturer's defect. But don't get too upset just yet. Forrest is a top notch outfit and ahould take care of you. I speak from recent (in the last 3 months) experience here.

I've had a Forrest WWII now for about 6 to 7 years and totally love it! It originally was installed on my Craftsman 10" Tablesaw. When I upgraded to the Unisaw, it "immigrated".

About a month ago, I finally bit the bullet and sent the blade off to Forrest's Clifton NJ plant to sharpen. Under (3) days later, it was back on my doorstep! When I opened the package, I was astounded. I thought they had sent me a new blade. But my name was there, right where I engraved it. They even replaced a chipped carbide tooth without me asking them.

And talk about SHARP! I was installing it on the tablesaw when I noticed this red stain on the blade. I didn't realize that I had sliced 3 small cuts into my palm! BTW, next time I'm leaving the protective plastic in place until AFTER I install the blade!

Basically, what I'm getting at is call Forrest directly. Explain the situation. From what I understand, the blade is only 7 months old. They are a top notch firm and should replace or repair the blade for free. My good friend and fellow woodworker Gordon Sampson had a similar incident happen with his WWII. After speaking with them, and sending the blade off, he got a new blade out of it.

Here is their contact information:

Forrest Manufacturing Inc.
457 River Road
Clifton, NJ 07014

Tel: (973) 473-5236

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Mike Cutler]

John. I gotta echo Dominic here. This is the first thread/post I've come across that viewed either the blade or the company in a negative light. Everything I've read supports the quality and after purchase support from Forrest.
To look at in another way, you have a blade that can be sent back to the manufacture and be repaired/ sharpened. It's a PITA but at least it can be done. Most blades this is not the case.
Give them a chance to do the right thing. If that doesn't pan out, return the blade to Woodcraft and let them help. They also pay a premium to have quality products in their stores, and on thier shelves, and so far for me the store here in Warwick RI has been very helpful. Good luck.

[John Miliunas]

Steve, Dom, Mike....I've always held Forrest in great respect. I hope both of you guys are right on this one, as I've really enjoyed the effortless and clean cuts of the blade. And Dom, thanks much for the direct contact info. I'll shoot them a call tomorrow! :) And yes, I'll keep you guys posted! :cool:

[Daniel Rabinovitz]

Well John ?
You've raked Forrest blades over the coals from 6:51 PM Saturday to 10:29 PM Sunday. It's now 3:40 PM on Monday - so what did Forrest have to say and is the blade going to be replaced or fixed ?
Daniel :confused:

[John Miliunas]

Well John ?
You've raked Forrest blades over the coals from 6:51 PM Saturday to 10:29 PM Sunday. It's now 3:40 PM on Monday - so what did Forrest have to say and is the blade going to be replaced or fixed ?
Daniel :confused:

Now, just hold on there, Daniel! I haven't "raked them over the coals"! Fact is, the very LAST thing I said about them is that I've always held them in very high regard! So there! :p

I finally got a chance to call them on the direct line Dom provided for me (thanks Dom!!!). At first, I was NOT impressed! I asked for "Technical Support" and, I believe the gal who answered, had never heard of that term! I finally said that I was having a problem with one of their blades and without as much as a, "Please hold", she put me on "hold". Quite frankly, for a minute, I didn't know if I'd been cut off or put on "hold"! :mad: Anyhow, a guy by the name of Charlie finally answered and asked if I was looking for "Tech Support" and what my problem was. I explained the situation to him and his first response was, "Purple-heart" is a tough wood." Doh! No kidding! This response did not fair very well with me, to which I responded: "Well, my SystiMatic blades never had an issue with that wood!" At that point, he eased up a bit, but then started in with the, "Well, send it and I'll have to take a look at it," routine. I politely asked him, what exactly that meant. I explained that, having paid $100.00+ for the blade already and now to ship it to them without knowing what to expect is a bit overwhelming. With that, he started telling me about how there are a gazillion happy customers with Forrest and that they stand behind their product and, chances are, "..it would be taken care of." He said he couldn't tell me for sure, 'cuz he has to see the blade to make sure I hadn't been using it to cut up my cement slab or as a "frisbee" or something to that effect! :eek: He did take down my name, ph. no. and address and said he would arrange for UPS pickup. He said to put a note in there as to what happened, get it packaged up and ready for pickup and put it to HIS attention! :) So, that's what I'm doing. If they decide it's something I did and they're going to charge me for it, they can keep it. If they decide to repair or replace, I'll use it, because I *STILL* like the cut quality out of it! :) But, I think I might switch to a different blade when doing functions w/o the blade guard, as I'm a bit gun-shy of possible flying carbide! :rolleyes: I *WILL* keep you guys posted! :cool:

[Tim Morton]

Well John ?
You've raked Forrest blades over the coals from 6:51 PM Saturday to 10:29 PM Sunday. It's now 3:40 PM on Monday - so what did Forrest have to say and is the blade going to be replaced or fixed ?


I'm hoping that post came with a whole bunch of "tongue firmly in cheek" that didn't project into text....cuz like John said...he was being more than fair with Forrest.

[David Rose]

Oh, John, John... saw blades make terrible and dangerous frisbees. You didn't tell us you had been doing that. We would have had different suggestions. ;) And rebounding it off of cement slabs... That is not good either. You can make an excellent "heavy duty" frisbee by sawing out a ceramic tile to a round shape. Carbide teeth on the bandsaw are important for this. The steel doesn't do so well. But, you know... my little bandsaw is starting to lead for some unexplicable reason... :eek:

You can understand their "disclaimer" though. You know what some folks will do to tools. My first couple of router bits bit the dust pretty fast. They weren't abused of course. :D

David who knows that mdf dust will burn (with a flame) right there in the groove just cut :o

[thomas prevost]

John,

This is not a bash because when Woodcraft replaced my blade, it cuts wood like soft butter.:) But, it seems like each forum I monitor has a thread of problems with Forrest Blades about once a year. this is the second here. It appears about 1% of the blades are defective. Where is the parts per million quality control? :mad:

Is there a way to feed this thread back to them? not as a bash but let them know what the customer sees and feels. How many just bite the bullet and go on to another manufacturer as was noted several times in the thread?

[Dennis Peacock]

But, I think I might switch to a different blade when doing functions w/o the blade guard, as I'm a bit gun-shy of possible flying carbide! :rolleyes: I *WILL* keep you guys posted! :cool:

<b>Everlast!!!!</b> Call Scott Whiting in Arizona.....He'll treat you right and tell him I sent you. That way he'll only charge you DOUBLE!!!! :p :D

[Jerry Olexa]

Its unfortunate the manufacturer isn't aware of how that 1% will impact others through vehicles such as this forum. My experience is similar to John's and their routine response to me was send it back @ your expense and we might repair it @ your expense. They have a premium product but are not willing to back it up like others. If you have a Lexus and a problem, they roll over backwards to help and correct it quickly at no expense to you. This, in my mind, justifies the higher up front consumer cost. You know you are getting the best and it is fully guaranteed if any prob occurs. Not the case here, In my case, I'll move on to another brand. They must not read the forums or do consumer research or listen to what their customer sevice dept is (I hope) telling them. Can you tell. I'm a bit upset and disappointed w my $100 investment? Again, just venting...Time to move on..

[Greg Mann]

I *WILL* keep you guys posted! :cool:
John, There is nothing worse than having a problem occur early in a weekend. Just think if it was a holiday weekend; one more day to stew.;) While I understand your concern about flying teeth, I have to agree with Jim B. about letting this play out. You have every right to be concerned with not getting full value out of a premium tool. But this is something like insurance companies. You never know how good your insurance company is until you need to make a claim.
Conversely, how many cheap blades just get tossed at failure, with the tosser thinking to himself, 'It was a cheap blade anyway. I guess you get what you pay for.' We may never hear about it here because it was not expected to be perfect anyway. Forrest's response will be the make or break here. It is reasonable to believe that part of what you paid a premium for was quality of cut and another part was customer service.

Without looking back through the thread someone else mentioned that every now and then someone complains about their Forrest blade not being up to expectations. The conclusion drawn was that that constituted a 1% defect rate. I don't know how anyone can make that statement based on hearing of occasional problems on WWing forums, especially in light of so many glowing recommendations! Are there other blades out there that are good and cost less? Of course, but I don't believe everyone that loves their Forrests just likes to pay more and also happen to have low expectations and are therefore more easily satisfied. Let's see how it plays out. You are a reasonable guy and, if they don't make it right, they will lose significant credibility in a venue that is important.

Greg

[aurelio alarcon]

They're aware of the impact. its calculated in when they're figuring everything out. In my opinion, they just don't care. A while back I bought one of Sears better combo blades. I accidently damaged the blade myself. It cost about 49 dollars if I remember correctly. Very good blade and a nice cut before the damage. I took it back and showed them the damage. Before I could explain what had happened they asked me if I wanted the same model. They didn't even ask me how it happened. They replaced it on the spot!

[David Rose]

Dennis, you didn't happen to save Scott's email addy did you? I lost it. :eek: I'm with you 100% on his work and support. I've gotten a couple of sets of jointer blades from him and had one sharpened. His work and products are excellent. He loves Amana and I'm hoping they have a set of planer blades for the 13" Delta. From their website, I can't tell for sure, but he'll likely know.

David


<b>Everlast!!!!</b> Call Scott Whiting in Arizona.....He'll treat you right and tell him I sent you. That way he'll only charge you DOUBLE!!!! :p :D

[John Miliunas]

I'm afraid the jury is still out on this one, until the blade gets picked up and inspected by Forrest. Like someone has mentioned, it's not always just the quality of the product, but the service behind it. In the long-term, I'm sincerely hoping I can build my trust in the Forrest quality back up. BUT, that depends entirely on the short-term, regarding what their Customer Service is willing to do for me! :) Like I said before, if they choose to blame me for the deficiency in this particular blade, I've definitely decided that they can keep it! Even though it's an expensive blade, it was NOT ready for sharpening, hence, I should NOT be paying for work done on it. And, even if I decided to do so, I'd have a hard time trusting it and would certainly not try to pawn it off on someone else, knowing that there may be a safety issue with it. That just ain't right! :mad:

As for the "1%" theory, I'm thinking it may actually be higher than that. I'm sure they sell a LOT of blades but, they are still at the high end of the scale and many folks elect to go with something a bit less expensive. Hence, the "bad" reports we see may indeed represent more than 1%. Sure, especially in terms of safe use, we'd all like to see 100% QA, but that may be asking a bit much for any OEM. What I *would* like to see, though, is a more genuine concern on the problem-handling side. Yeah, Lexus does have extremely high marks for their Customer Service, but that still means that there are some defect or shortcoming issues being handled. So, the quality is NOT 100%, but they're scoring high in the rebound category! :)

Eventually, time will tell the story in this case. In the meantime, I still may be checking out another interim blade. I get the feeling that maybe Dennis P. might suggest taking a look at the "Everlast". Though I can't seem to determine how he really feels about it, it appears as though he might like it! :rolleyes: :cool:

[Dale Thompson]

Hey Spring,
Anyone who can afford Forrest blades and John Deere lawn mowers should not be whining about the loss of one lousy tooth on a saw blade. I can't even afford to replace the string on my wife's Weedeater. No problem. It just takes her a bit longer to cut the grass. :mad:

How many times do I have to tell you!?! PURPLEHEART should ONLY be used for stair treads in third-world countries. How many times do I have to tell you before you get the message?!? :rolleyes:

I know! You need pictures. I'd like to post some pictures but my Huber Law privileges don't allow for that luxury. :o

It was nice talking to you tonight, John. Mitsy and Cupid are fine! "The Lion shall lay down with the lamb". :)

Dale T.

[John Miliunas]

Hey Spring,
Anyone who can afford Forrest blades and John Deere lawn mowers should not be whining about the loss of one lousy tooth on a saw blade. I can't even afford to replace the string on my wife's Weedeater. No problem. It just takes her a bit longer to cut the grass. :mad:

How many times do I have to tell you!?! PURPLEHEART should ONLY be used for stair treads in third-world countries. How many times do I have to tell you before you get the message?!? :rolleyes:

I know! You need pictures. I'd like to post some pictures but my Huber Law privileges don't allow for that luxury. :o

It was nice talking to you tonight, John. Mitsy and Cupid are fine! "The Lion shall lay down with the lamb". :)

Dale T.

Now, just wait a minute, Mr. Peshtigo! A) I bought both, the Forrest and the JD, NOT because I've got a LOT of $$, but chose to not spend more of that hard-earned $$ in the long run! :p Oh, and I also replaced the string in LOML's weedeater, too! :D

As for how/where the Purpleheart is "supposed" to be used, I guess nobody ever accused me of having too many brain cells! :o Besides, I'm one of those dummies who learns by repetition, so you may have to tell me MANY more times! :)

Yes, that was a very welcome and heartwarming phone call. I am still kind of reeling from it, though I know that Cupid & Mitsy are probably laughing their butts off! :D Thanks again! :cool:

[Jerry Olexa]

I think we all need to sit back and enjoy a good Wisconsin beer Time usually heals most wounds The ball is in their court Lets see what happens
Do you want a Bergoff or Leinenkugel (Sp) ?

[Dick Parr]

Now your talking Jerry,

Could ya send a couple of cases of the Leinenkugel Red Lager down to Knoxville. That stuff is Good. :rolleyes: :D :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Now your talking Jerry,

Could ya send a couple of cases of the Leinenkugel Red Lager down to Knoxville. That stuff is Good. :rolleyes: :D :cool:

Aw heck, that's one of the BIG names around here! :rolleyes: We've also got a number of micro-breweries. For instance, Capitol Beer, Lake Louis, Spotted Cow, etc.... Everything from pretty light beers right on down to the ones that'll plug that leak in your radiator! :D :cool:

[David Rose]

You guys sure are selfish! Buy a round for everybody! :D

John, I suspect you are through the worst end of it now. I've destroyed about 5 carbide bits and have never had the carbide go the "wrong" direction. I'm sure it could, but I suspect that manufacturers have it figured out for a "most case" scenario. I'll bet when Forrest sees a good condition bad blade they will take care of you. It has to be hard for them to know until they see it. Don't use it for a frisbee on the concrete no mo! :eek:

I'll tell the "Whiteside story" in a few more days when I am sure how it all comes together.

David

[Jeremy Bracey]

I have been quietly "listening" to this thread for the past few days. In fact, it is the only reason I powered up my PC today.


I must say that I think that John is more than fair on this and had I been greeted with this customer service approach I may have come unglued. Yes, in fact some people do misuse blades, but this isnt any blade, its A ONE HUNDRED DOLLAR+ blade! You generally dont have the village idiot with $20 skil saw and a $100+ blade. My point here is that rarely is a blade like this going to be used as a frisbie or to cut concrete (I realize these are humorous examples) The fact is that in my opinion forest should have given John the benefit of the doubt and once every while they will get burned. My guess here is if John hadnt been persistant he would have paid for his own shipping and the response once the blade got to forrest could have been anyting.

I dont usually by "cheap" tools, but at the Indianapolis woodworking show in January I found a set of Woodline bits that I could not find made by anyone else (entry door rail and style set) so I bought them. WHen I got home I tried them but couldnt get a tight fit. I called them the next day and I talked to one of the owners. I discussed the problem with him and he immediatly said, "must be a bad bit, it doesnt happen often but it happens. I'll ship you a new set today" I asked him how he would like me to return them and he said, "what would I want with bad bits? pitch them please and forget I ever gave you bad bits!"

Ok, the woodline product is cheaper, made in China and probably has a higher failure rate, but now Woodline has a customer (me) that wouldnt normally buy a "cheaper" product because of the way they took care of a customer.

On the other hand, I had intendid to by a Woodworker II at the Indy show this next January, instead after reading this thread I will probably give the dewalt a try.

Sorry so long but thier is an old saying, "Service is sales and sales is service."

TRUE STATEMENT.

[David Rose]

Jeremy, I agree with you on all but this part. I see a lot of high end product bought for various reasons that gets unusual abuse. Just as many folks will treat their "junk" tools with tender loving care, there are a lot who will treat the expensive tools poorly. It may not be that way in woodworking, but I'll bet there are a lot folks who do that from what I've seen in other industries.
The guys I'm talking about would have the high end saw to go with the blade.

And I'm sorry that I restated the stupid frisbee comment. That didn't accomplish anything.

David


You generally dont have the village idiot with $20 skil saw and a $100+ blade. My point here is that rarely is a blade like this going to be used as a frisbie or to cut concrete (I realize these are humorous examples) .

[Ken Salisbury]

I have been watching this thread very intently. My experience has been when someone has a problem with a tool everyone immediately jumps on the horse and tries to run full bent to the finish line. Emotions begin to run rampant. Common sense and understanding goes "down the crack with Uncle Jack" (a Southern expression:) ).

I have been a hobby woodworker for close to 60 years. During that time I have had both positive and negative experiences with many, many different brands of tools and supplies. During that time I have learned "one seed does not a harvest make".

I like everyone else, have certain products on which I rely based on performance and reliability over years, not days and certainly not after a single purchase.

As it turns out Forrest is one of the tools I learned to rely on. I have been using Forrest blades since 1990, when I purchased by first 2 Forrest blades at a tool show in Cincinnati. One of which (a WWI) is on my current RAS and performs like it did when I first purchased it and has been resharpended only twice by Forrest. I have purchased 5 Forrest blades, only one of which I had to replace on my cabinet saw after 10 years usage and 2 resharpenings . I currently have Forrest blades on my RAS, cabinet saw, and 2 miter saws. These blades have stood the test of time cutting just about every species of hardwoods and softwoods imaginable.

Companies are inundated with product complaints (it's the nature of the consumer) some of which are founded and some unfounded. They cannot be expected to automatically replace the product in every single case. They wouldn't stay in business long if they did. I have no doubt Forrest will do the right thing in this case given the chance to evaluate the blade.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

To add a side note -- I have edited several posts in this thread to remove profanity and unsavory comments. Since Steve Clardy liked this quote so much, I will use it again. "Let us put our brain in gear before engaging the keyboard" :)
http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[Jerry Olexa]

Now your talking Jerry,

Could ya send a couple of cases of the Leinenkugel Red Lager down to Knoxville. That stuff is Good. :rolleyes: :D :cool:
Dick I agree Luney Red is a GREAT beer. (John M will attest) AND it gives you perspective @ times like these. At times you can't see the FORREST for the trees (Yuk) I believe I'll have another...:)

[John Miliunas]

Dick I agree Luney Red is a GREAT beer. (John M will attest) AND it gives you perspective @ times like these. At times you can't see the FORREST for the trees (Yuk) I believe I'll have another...:)

Jerry's correct 'bout the Red and I'm kinda' partial to the Honey Weis, as well. Darn tootin' about the "Forrest", too. We used to live in DeForest and for a long time, you really couldn't see it for de trees! :D Ah, but then subdivisions, fast food and industrial parks started moving in on de trees. We moved OUT! :) :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

CMT...CMT...CMT :)

[nic obie]

Hi John,

Sorry to hear about the problem you had with that saw blade. However it sounds like they will make it good. Not making you pay for shipping is a good sign.

Getting treated like c*** from a company that you thought sold the best is always rough. I know, I've been through it. I think you know what I'm talking about. In your case I think Forrest will come through.

As to alternatives, I also agree that Everlast makes a fine blade. I have also had excellent results with Leitz. You can usually get these on sale for under $60. Recently I tried out a FS tool 80 tooth laminate blade for my chop saw. I think it has a 5 degree negative hook. It's the best blade I've ever used on that saw. Believe it of not, I got it on ebay for about $50 and that included shipping.

You might check out Carbide.com, they always have specials. I usually buy my BS blades from them too.

[John Miliunas]

Chris, I already have a couple CMT's! :) One for the TS, which is a flat tooth and great for splines, the other for my 7-1/4 CS. Nice cuts from both. Oh yeah...Just remembered: Yet another one for the 12" CMS. Hate it! Seriously. The runout on it is simply horrid. I put a Chopmaster on it and forgot all about the CMT! :rolleyes:

Nic, I'm seriously considering an Everlast, regardless of the Forrest outcome! If Dennis P. thinks so highly of it, there's gotta' be sumfin' to it! :D I'll check at Carbide.com, as well and see what they have to offer. No particular hurry right now, as the CMT is doing the job and I can fall back on a pretty freshly sharpened SystiMatic. Even have a knock-around Olde for real rough stuff! :)

Also, FWIW, it appears that UPS was already here today, making an attempt to pickup the blade! :D Needless to say, nobody home at the time, but they left a note for another try tomorrow, at a time when someone *should* be home! :) Charlie, up at Forrest Man was good to his word! So far, so good! :)

[Chris Padilla]

Chris, I already have a couple CMT's! :) One for the TS, which is a flat tooth and great for splines, the other for my 7-1/4 CS. Nice cuts from both. Oh yeah...Just remembered: Yet another one for the 12" CMS. Hate it! Seriously. The runout on it is simply horrid. I put a Chopmaster on it and forgot all about the CMT!

Hmm, I have that blade on my 12" CMS and it is great. If the runout was so bad, why didn't you return it a la your Forrest problems?? ;) :p :D

[John Miliunas]

Hmm, I have that blade on my 12" CMS and it is great. If the runout was so bad, why didn't you return it a la your Forrest problems?? ;) :p :D

Already told 'ya...I *forgot* about it!!! :( I was in the middle of changing to a different CMS, moving and going in to a different shop! Now that I think about it, I had even considered trying out one of those blade stabilizers on it to see if that would do the trick. Still might.... :)

[John Miliunas]

Well, according to the UPS tracking info, my defective blade was to have hit NJ yesterday, late morning. By this afternoon, I couldn't wait any longer and just had to find out what was going on. Quite frankly, I forgot if they even asked for my ph.# or not. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, spoke to Charlie, who hadn't looked at it yet. He called me back about 1/2 hour later and this is the info I got: He said that the tooth did NOT detach from the weld! Rather, the carbide itself busted off, while the base of the carbide tip was still firmly welded to the blade body! He said that, upon inspection, it looks as though there may have been a tiny break in it for any amount of time and that it just broke off the rest of the way. He indicated that the "original" malfunction of the carbide was most likely caused by some previous inane contact with a hard surface. He mentioned that this could've happened *anywhere*, from the factory up through and including the end user. He did, however, NOT point the finger at me, nor make it sound as though it "was probably my fault" kind of thing. His statement was very purposely generic! :) I assured me, numerous times that Forrest WILL stand behind their product and want to be sure that the customer is satisfied! He said that a NEW replacement blade would probably ship tomorrow, *after* a test cut! :D Once he had explained it all to me and we carried on with our conversations, he was very adamant about asking me numerous times if there were *ANY* other questions I had or if there was anything else he could do for me. We finally closed the dialog with him stating that if I have *ANY* problems or questions to be sure and give them a call! :) So, for now, that's where it's at. I'll let you know the final outcome once the blade gets here! :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,
I used to hang a few blades on a plastic peg board hook. One day I see 2 blades on the ground...one had lost a tooth from the fall on the concrete slab. Contact of this type can fracture the carbide. It is not ductile. This could also happen when changing the blade if it taps the saw top or castings in the throat. It is fairly easy to do. Framing saws will lose teeth if they hit a nail. It could happen in shipping...or even before it leaves the factory. I am glad to see they are taking care of you...it is good for you and very good for them. They are a good company and have earned a fine reputation they want to keep....There is power in numbers and for companies not as honorable as Forrest ....belonging to SMC makes a difference...and the members are typically great guys that just want to be treated fairly

[Tim Morton]

was there any talk of the "look" of these welds? Glad you are getting a new blade John!!! :D

[Gary Max]

Some other thoughts about this tread
I would bet that a lot of folks removed saw blades and inspected them this last week.
I found a new place to buy saw blades call 3D tablesaw Blades.
Always glad to see these big companies reading these post of ours.
Just some small thoughts of mine

[John Miliunas]

was there any talk of the "look" of these welds? Glad you are getting a new blade John!!! :D

Yes, there was. Charlie was adamant about the welds being OK on the blade. I must give him the shadow of a doubt in regards to that, because I wasn't aware of any weld issues before sending it back out to them, so I wasn't looking for it. I know that carbide, strong as it is, is extremely brittle, so what he explained to me is completely plausible. This obviously does not take away from those who may indeed have blades with questionable welds! Having said that, I guess I should repeat what's been said on most all of these "Forrest" threads: Give them a call, discuss it with them and probably have them inspect the blade. I have to believe that they will stand behind their product. :) :cool:

[Frank Pellow]

John I am happy that you got the response that you did from Forrest. :) That is certainly what I would have expected from them. I don't have any experience with Forrest products, but when I spend premium money on a product, I EXPECT PREMIUM SERVICE.

[Ken Salisbury]

I have to believe that they will stand behind their product. :) :cool:

That's too bad John. Darn, now no one will take me up on my offer to take any suspect blades off their hands for immediate use in the Old Rebel Workshop. ;)

Seriously, I had no doubt this problem would be resolved by Forrest.

[Jim Becker]

John, your experience with Charlie is exactly the same as mine with Tony. Good folks. That's one of the reasons beyond the great cut that I use their blades.

[Jerry Olexa]

John, maybe I should give it one more try and call the head office, Looks like they treated you OK after quite a bit of "nudging".(interesting how safety issues gets everyone's attention as well as "squeeky wheel gets the oil".) Glad it worked out. Let me know what you think. I'm still v dissapointed w my WW2 . Nothing like the one demo'd for me @ the WW show. Thanks

[John Miliunas]

John, maybe I should give it one more try and call the head office, Looks like they treated you OK after quite a bit of "nudging".(interesting how safety issues gets everyone's attention as well as "squeeky wheel gets the oil".) Glad it worked out. Let me know what you think. I'm still v dissapointed w my WW2 . Nothing like the one demo'd for me @ the WW show. Thanks

Jerry, just MHO but, I got the impression from the folks at Forrest that they genuinely care about customer satisfaction. I think they too may have suffered some from growing pains and maybe didn't originally give you the attention you feel you deserve. You bought the blade in good faith and it just isn't delivering the quality demonstrated to you. Give them a shot. Talk to either, Charlie or Tony and see what direction they can give you. They realize that they are now producing a LOT of blades and, just by shear numbers, there is a percentage which may not quite spec out, for whatever reason. Just as Dave M. (3D Blades) mentioned in one of his posts, it's much harder to gain a customer than it is to keep a current one satisfied. :) Give 'em a shout and see what they have to offer in terms of a resolution. Keep us posted! :cool:

[Dave Morgan]

John, maybe I should give it one more try and call the head office, Looks like they treated you OK after quite a bit of "nudging".(interesting how safety issues gets everyone's attention as well as "squeeky wheel gets the oil".) Glad it worked out. Let me know what you think. I'm still v dissapointed w my WW2 . Nothing like the one demo'd for me @ the WW show. Thanks
Jerry
Give me a call about your WWll so we can visit.
Since you bought it from us at a show we need to fix the problem.
Dave at 3D Saw Blades
866.398.9336

[Gene Collison]

Jerry, just MHO but, I got the impression from the folks at Forrest that they genuinely care about customer satisfaction. I think they too may have suffered some from growing pains and maybe didn't originally give you the attention you feel you deserve. You bought the blade in good faith and it just isn't delivering the quality demonstrated to you. Give them a shot. Talk to either, Charlie or Tony and see what direction they can give you. They realize that they are now producing a LOT of blades and, just by shear numbers, there is a percentage which may not quite spec out, for whatever reason. Just as Dave M. (3D Blades) mentioned in one of his posts, it's much harder to gain a customer than it is to keep a current one satisfied. :) Give 'em a shout and see what they have to offer in terms of a resolution. Keep us posted! :cool:

John,

I already have my replacement blade from Dave Morgan, it is as a great blade should be. I believe you are in good hands!

Gene

[Dale Thompson]

[QUOTE=John Miliunas]Well, according to the UPS tracking info, my defective blade was to have hit NJ yesterday, late morning. By this afternoon, I couldn't wait any longer and just had to find out what was going on. Quite frankly, I forgot if they even asked for my ph.# or not. :rolleyes:

Hey Spring,
In the time that you have spent on one simple little saw tooth, you could have hired three more maids, two more butlers, six more gardeners and two more nannies for your sixteen kids. :rolleyes:

You could also have gotten a haircut, trimmed your paste-on mustache and posted some pics of you wearing that cute little "neck thingy" that you were bragging about. ;)

Where are your PRIORITIES!! :eek: :)

Dale T.

[John Miliunas]

John,

I already have my replacement blade from Dave Morgan, it is as a great blade should be. I believe you are in good hands!

Gene

Hey, that sounds splendid! Happy to hear that! As it stands, I heard back from Charlie TWO more times today! :D The first time was about mid-afternoon. He called to try and help clarify my understanding of what went kafooey with my blade. They apparently went to some great lengths to inspect this puppy and determined that it may NOT have been caused by some trauma to the blade! Rather, in rare cases, the carbide itself may have had a very slight defect or "pocket", if you will, which created a slight void. Sawblades, being what they are, give each and every tooth a pounding with every "strike" to the wood. In this case, it was Purpleheart, which we know to be an extremely hard wood. There's also the issue of heat, which we already know to be a common enemy to sharpness and such. Forrest's theory is that, the "void" had been slowly but surely stressed, until the point that it finally gave in. He was *extremely* insistent that this is truly a fluke and rare occurrence. It's just one of those things "which happens". :rolleyes:

Also, you folks may be interested to know that Forrest IS out HERE and paying attention to what is being said or suggested about their blades! Charlie explained back to me what I had posted in regards to the update, so I know they ARE interested! :) I'm thinking that this is a GOOD kind of "Big Brother is watching"! :D Anyhow, he also informed me that they did a test cut with it and that he'd try to get the blade out today and, if not, Monday for sure. :)

Which brings me to today's #2 call from Forrest. It was after 9:00 pm, MY time and LOML took the call, as I was "indisposed" at the time. That, my fine WW friends, would make it past 10:00 in NJ! Charlie called to let me know that my blade did indeed get shipped out TODAY and I should hopefully see it Tues. or Wed.! :D Post 10:00pm on a Friday evening, mind you! :eek: OK, now I'm REALLY impressed! :D I'm thinking that the blade I receive will most probably be a twin to the one Gene received! :D I'll let you guys know... :cool:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Great news John! I love my Forrest Blades, and now I am TOTALLY sold on the customer service that Forrest is providing. Where have you gotten service like that lately? IMO.............I'M SOLD! :)

[John Miliunas]

Great news John! I love my Forrest Blades, and now I am TOTALLY sold on the customer service that Forrest is providing. Where have you gotten service like that lately? IMO.............I'M SOLD! :)

I think I'll be loving my Forrest when I get it and you're right...The CS is excellent, but let us not forget a few other awesome service providers, such as, Uncle Bob, Lee Valley, many of our local Woodcrafts, Dave with 3D Blades, Dino with Eurekazone and the list goes on! Maybe, it's due to the fair number of great providers that we are starting to *expect* great service, instead of accepting mediocre products. :) I realize that some folks kinda' roll their eyes when a "rant" or "problem w/(insert tool here) thread shows up, but many times, it's really doing the vendor or OEM a favor. LOML has done some time working in restaurants and tells me the same thing. In the better eateries, the staff and cooks welcome ALL criticism. They acknowledge the good, but take the bad to heart and try to improve on it. I believe they're the ones who will eventually gain the dividends from it! IMHO, anyway.... :cool:

[Charlie Plesums]

Your experience with Charles at Forrest is similar to mine. After 20 months of hard use, I couldn't believe my WW II didn't need sharpening, so I sent it in.

Charles called me to confirm what I wanted to do - it didn't need sharpening. Was I having a problem? No, I just was nervous because the WW II had always cut much better than my other blades, and even though it was still better, I thought my standards may have dropped with the sharpness.

While we were talking I lamented the lack of a particular tooth configuration. "Yes we have it - grind number 6" So I bought an additional blade - no charge for the cleaning and inspection of the first.

The new blade arrived with the bad looking solder described in this thread. I sent Charles pictures and discussed it with him. He swore it was ok, and had others at Forrest confirm, so I tried the blade. Most of the black that I thought was a bad solder job has worn off in the first week of use.

There may be cheaper blades that cut as good or almost as good, but I never expected to get more than 20 months of "semi-pro" use without needing a sharpening, nor that level of service. (Incidentally, the initial purchase was at Woodcraft, but the support from Forrest was the same)

Charlie

[Jim Becker]

In appreciation of Dave jumping in to help out in these threads, I ordered a ChopMaster yesterday which shipped out "same day". Now, I'm truely "all Forrest" across the shop. It's important to patronize vendors that go the extra mile.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
I have that ChopMaster and it is a great blade. You will enjoy it!

[Jim Becker]

Mark, they have a new blade for miter saws that is quite interesting, but it's close to two bills for a 12"-er. I don't use my miter saw enough to justify that, but it looks like a winner.

[Byron Trantham]

I have Forrest's Miter Master 12" for my DeWalt and it's one great blade. I doubt that I will every have to replace it.

FWIW, I have found one great way to sharpen these blades - CLEAN THEM! It never seems to amaze me that after cleaning the blade it seems sharper! I use simple green (50/50 mix) and a tooth brush. After I'm finished, the blades look brand new. :rolleyes:

[John Miliunas]

Your experience with Charles at Forrest is similar to mine.

Hey Charlie, you kinda' snuck in on us, there! Welcome to the Creek! In case you haven't figured it out yet, this is a super place to hang out! :D Now, seeing as to how you're a "semi-pro", that means we're going to be expecting LOTS of pictures from you! :D I see you've already got the avatar covered, so that's cool! :)

In regards to the Forrest, I'm pretty confident that my own confidence in Forrest has been restored and I will continue to enjoy both of them and possibly more! I've got the Chopmaster on the CMS and it does a super job! Maybe I'll take Jim B.'s lead and eventually pick up a 30T to take care of major ripping duties. In the meantime, the regular WWII has done just fine in both, rips and crosscuts. Were it not for this mis-queue, I would have had no lapse in using Forrest! I'll be back on track in no time. :D

So any-the-who, glad to have you aboard! Come often, stay long and be sure to share experiences, questions AND pics! :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Maybe I'll take Jim B.'s lead and eventually pick up a 30T to take care of major ripping duties.
I actually have a 20t WW-II ripping blade...it's one of their "custom grinds" and was quite reasonably in price. Nasty looking thing, however, with so few teeth!

[John Shuk]

Jim,
I'm about to do the same thing in respect to ordering a chopmaster from Dave. He responded to the forum as well as my e-mail so quickly and I feel the same way about vendors who go all out for us. I'm glad all is well with John as well. It's nice to see Forrest "Back on the top of the list". I was confident they would take care of their customers.

[JayStPeter]

In appreciation of Dave jumping in to help out in these threads, I ordered a ChopMaster yesterday which shipped out "same day". Now, I'm truely "all Forrest" across the shop. It's important to patronize vendors that go the extra mile.

Jim,

Please give a report on this blade. I have the same saw as you (except with the lasers :p ) and don't have a good blade yet. The stock blade is doodoo. I've been bouncing back and forth between a ChopMaster and just getting a $50+ Freud from the Borg. That MiterMaster does look interesting, but I'm obviously leaning toward the less money approach for this saw :rolleyes: . If I used it more, that's the direction I'd go.

Jay

[John Miliunas]

I actually have a 20t WW-II ripping blade...it's one of their "custom grinds" and was quite reasonably in price. Nasty looking thing, however, with so few teeth!

Sorry Jim! My bad. I thought you had the 30T! :o Not sure if I'd go quite to a 20T myself, but I'm seriously considering a 30 and save the 40T primarily for crosscuts. :) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Jay, I've been running an 80t Freud for a long time and have not been happy with it. The ChopMaster should be a breath of fresh air from what I've heard from other owners. I'm really looking forward to it!

John, the 30t is a good ripping blade, but it's still a GP grind. The 20T is a true flat-grind ripper. Not as smooth as the ATB teeth on the others, but it would rip a sequoia if the blade was large enough! Very aggressive, but I like that in a ripping blade. I don't try for, nor expect, a "jointed" finish. That's what I have a big-butt jointer for... :D

[John Miliunas]

Jay, I've been running an 80t Freud for a long time and have not been happy with it. The ChopMaster should be a breath of fresh air from what I've heard from other owners. I'm really looking forward to it!

John, the 30t is a good ripping blade, but it's still a GP grind. The 20T is a true flat-grind ripper. Not as smooth as the ATB teeth on the others, but it would rip a sequoia if the blade was large enough! Very aggressive, but I like that in a ripping blade. I don't try for, nor expect, a "jointed" finish. That's what I have a big-butt jointer for... :D

Jim, me thinks you'll really, REALLY like the Chopmaster! :) The Oldehaim (s?) I used to run was actually a pretty decent blade, but when I upgraded to the Delta CMS, I elected to give it the best blade I knew of. Haven't been disappointed! :) Like a hot knife through butter! :D :cool:

[JayStPeter]

Jay, I've been running an 80t Freud for a long time and have not been happy with it. The ChopMaster should be a breath of fresh air from what I've heard from other owners. I'm really looking forward to it!


Well, that's what is holding me back. I keep thinking about the change from a $50 Freud combo to the WWII on my TS. I keep thinking it is probably false economy to save $50 and be unhappy. On the other hand, I keep looking at my bank account :eek: . Looking forward to your results to help steer me in the right direction ;) :D .

Jay

[Jim Becker]

The bank account is always an important consideration, Jay. 'Better to "save an extra month or three" than get something less than you really want, however. Remember, it's the blade that actually cuts the wood on that expensive saw!

[John Weber]

The ChopMaster is awesome, glass smooth cuts with a 10" on my Milwaukee CMS. I'm not sure what makes Forrest so good, but they are. My guess is sharpening has a fair bit to do with hit as my Freuds sharpened by Forrest cut better then new.

John

[JayStPeter]

The bank account is always an important consideration, Jay. 'Better to "save an extra month or three" than get something less than you really want, however. Remember, it's the blade that actually cuts the wood on that expensive saw!

Right on. My next (non-shop related) project is a bed. So, I need to get something to cut those large pieces soon. Until then, I'll shred the "shop furniture" I'm building with the stocker :rolleyes: . I already put my old 10"er to duty cutting metal with an abrasive cutoff blade. Don't know if I want to try and bring it back, so I guess I'll just have to get a new blade :cool: .

I'm pretty sure on the ChopMaster, otherwise I probably would've bought the Freud by now. The Freud I was looking at is a 96T, the CMT and Amana are also. I think the Everlast is 100T. My 10" is an 80T, so, I'm interested to see if you get super smooth cuts with only 80T on a 12" blade. Seems like the minimum.
BTW, CMT/Amana/Everlast are all the same price as the ChopMaster, which is why they are not in my top 2 right now. If one of those guys were half the price ...

Jay

[John Miliunas]

Jay, a good (but expensive) blade is like most any other good (but expensive) tool for our shop: The "pain" of the expense wears off about as quickly as you first start using the said tool! :D Would it be great to get the same quality, longengevity, service, etc... for 1/2 the price? You betchya'! But, I'll bet that only happens in our dreams! :cool:

[Ken Salisbury]

Jim,

Please give a report on this blade. I have the same saw as you (except with the lasers :p ) and don't have a good blade yet. The stock blade is doodoo. I've been bouncing back and forth between a ChopMaster and just getting a $50+ Freud from the Borg. That MiterMaster does look interesting, but I'm obviously leaning toward the less money approach for this saw :rolleyes: . If I used it more, that's the direction I'd go.

Jay

I'm not Jim, but I will give you my report on the Chopmaster. I have Chopmasters on both of my miter saws. Ya can't beat em !!!

[Darrick Robbins]

John,
How interesting that you have the EXACT same problem I do. I just bought a forrest blade about 4 months ago. I used it a little bit, but certainly not more than 2 hours total cutting time. One day I was doing some cut offs and th blade caught a piece of the waste and shot it into the wall. The wood was cherry. It wasn't long after that I noticed one of the teeth was completely gone. Sadly I threw away the block and so I haven't found the tooth but it took me by surprise. I sent the blade back to them last week and am awaiting some resolution (ya I'm stupid to pay the postage). I hope it ends well because I really liked the cut I was getting.
Darrick

[Chris Padilla]

Anyone here use like/dislike CMT? That is all I have. I use their ripping blade and their crosscut blade on the TS with excellent results and ditto on the CMS. I did have a CMT General blade that seemed to dull rather quickly but I dunno...could be me and my style of cutting.

One of these days I'll have to try Forrest but not for a bit.... :)

[Gene Collison]

Anyone here use like/dislike CMT? That is all I have. I use their ripping blade and their crosscut blade on the TS with excellent results and ditto on the CMS. I did have a CMT General blade that seemed to dull rather quickly but I dunno...could be me and my style of cutting.

One of these days I'll have to try Forrest but not for a bit.... :)
______________

Aw, c'mon, anybody that would buy a CMT can't see the Forrest through the trees!!!! That said, I have a couple of CMT's, a General and a Miter blade for my slider. They are good blades but pricey compared to Freud and Dewalt. I tried their rip blade, nice flat bottom cut but very noisy. I prefer Freud rip blades both 24 and 30 tooth. The carbide thickness on the General is really skimpy IMO, not many sharpenings there. And besides, if you have a problem you have to send an email to Italy in Italian!!yuck yuck!!

Gene

[John Miliunas]

We live in an area known as Bear Valley, but today, I came home to a forest....errrrrr.....Forrest, that is! A new Forrest WWII, to be exact! :D Charlie, from Forrest, good to his word, had the new blade shipped out to me, UPS, Second Day Air!!!, no less! :) The verdict on it is as follows:
Is it sharp? In a word, "Ouch!" The tips are honed to such a degree that, if one were able to take them all off and glue them side-by-side, you could just about use it for a mirror! Do the welds look OK? Well, if these are indeed hand-done, I'd like to shake the hand of the person who did them! No, I didn't take a lupe to them (don't own one!), but under slight magnification, they look super with little to no fill whatsoever! No detectable voids, either. :) Another item I noted was the arbor hole is as snug as *any* blade I've ever mounted on this or any other saw! Blade run-out? OK, does .0015 at the VERY worst count?! :) And that's just turning the thing by hand. I imagine once it's spinning a few K-rpm's, that becomes even less of an issue. The run-out (lack thereof!) even inspired me to go ahead and cut out a ZC insert for the saw. In the past, with just about any blade I've used, a ZC worked great, but as the blade would spin down, you could hear it slightly "tick" against the insert. NOT THIS one! No kidding!

So, am I pleased? YOU figure it out! :D My sincerest thanks to Forrest and Charlie for not only taking care of this issue for me, but returning my confidence to me in a product I had believed in! It's refreshing to know that a company built on producing a top quality product will stand behind it when things don't quite measure up to 100%. THIS is the quality and service I thought I purchased and, for a change, somebody proved me RIGHT! :rolleyes: Thanks also to the folks at SMC who gave me additional guidance, support and suggestions. This place just flat-out ROCKS! :D :) :cool:

[Jim Ketron]

Glad everything worked out for you John!:D

If I get a new Cab TS Thats the blade Im thinking of getting!
Jim

[Jeremy Bracey]

John,

Great follow-up. Thanks for the update. Glad they came through.

[Rich Konopka]

Mark, they have a new blade for miter saws that is quite interesting, but it's close to two bills for a 12"-er. I don't use my miter saw enough to justify that, but it looks like a winner.
I have it and I really like it when I use it. It is used for special occasions and it gives a nice cut from my dw708. I was going to get a Lion Miter and I decided against it after getting the blade. I have been cutting some cove molding for a bookcase I'm trying to finish and the cuts have been splendid.

[Jim Becker]

My new ChopMaster arrived yesterday and between conference calls, I opened up the package, removed a bit of the protectant and looked at the brazing. My feeling is the same as John's...whomever did it knows their stuff. And this blade is out of 3D's stock, not one that could have been checked "special" before shipment.

[Josh Bendel]

Jay, I've been running an 80t Freud for a long time and have not been happy with it. The ChopMaster should be a breath of fresh air from what I've heard from other owners. I'm really looking forward to it!

John, the 30t is a good ripping blade, but it's still a GP grind. The 20T is a true flat-grind ripper. Not as smooth as the ATB teeth on the others, but it would rip a sequoia if the blade was large enough! Very aggressive, but I like that in a ripping blade. I don't try for, nor expect, a "jointed" finish. That's what I have a big-butt jointer for... :D
Jim or anyone for that matter,
Just curious I'm also looking for a new 10" blade and was wondering what you didn't like about the Freud?

[Jim Becker]

Just curious I'm also looking for a new 10" blade and was wondering what you didn't like about the Freud?
The 12" Freud on my CMS has had a tendancy to dull quickly and burn a bit...but it was not one of their premium blades, either. One thing that often gets missed when Freud blades are mentioned is that they have a wide range of models/quality levels. The Freud blades commonly sold at the 'borg at lower prices are not anything like Freud's industrial offerings (LU series, etc) in quality or price. In fact, they have a premium GP blade that is not that different in price from the Forrest.

I have been absolutely happy with any of the Freud LU blades I've bought and used, other than the fact that the rip blade really didn't do a good job cutting a #10 screw lengthwise...ended up looking like a "hill-billy dental problem", if you know what I mean...:eek: :rolleyes: :D That one went in the trash as it wasn't worth trying to salvage. My remaining Freud LU cabinetmaker blade gets occasionaly use on sheet goods when I want to preserve the sharpening on the Forrest blade that normally stays on the TS for the majority of the time.

[Chris Padilla]

...the fact that the rip blade really didn't do a good job cutting a #10 screw lengthwise...ended up looking like a "hill-billy dental problem", if you know what I mean...:eek: :rolleyes: :D That one went in the trash...
Wow...you literally "trashed a blade!" :)

[Jim Becker]

Wow...you literally "trashed a blade!"
Indeed. One tooth (was actually still hanging on) was split right down the middle...it looked like a medevial torture tool...:o

[Dale Thompson]

Hey Spring,
I can only GUESS at the national panic that would result if you ripped a big chip out of one of your Harbor Freight gouges if you hit the headstock spur on your lathe. :eek:

I'm already heading for the basement bomb shelter!! ;)

Dale T.

[John Miliunas]

Hey Spring,
I can only GUESS at the national panic that would result if you ripped a big chip out of one of your Harbor Freight gouges if you hit the headstock spur on your lathe. :eek:

I'm already heading for the basement bomb shelter!! ;)

Dale T.

"National panic"???!!! :eek: No, no, no-o-o-o-o-o, my fine Peshtigonian! I do believe those fine tools are imported from a high-tech manufacturing facility overseas. That would make it an *INTERNATIONAL* panic! Your bomb shelter would NOT be able to withstand the repercussions from that one! :D :cool:

[Mike Kelly]

John, I have ripped and cross cut many board feet of Almendrillo which is more than twice as hard as Purpleheart and never had any problems with my WWII. Even the best may have defects on any given day. I would bet by now that that you have been taken care of. I didn't read all of the replys. I have 3 Forrest blades and they are all just like new. The one on my tablesaw is 19 years old.

[John Miliunas]

John, I have ripped and cross cut many board feet of Almendrillo which is more than twice as hard as Purpleheart and never had any problems with my WWII. Even the best may have defects on any given day. I would bet by now that that you have been taken care of. I didn't read all of the replys. I have 3 Forrest blades and they are all just like new. The one on my tablesaw is 19 years old.

"19 years old"???!!! :eek: Dang, that IS good! :) You're right about even the best may have a defect from time to time. And, it's typically MY luck that I'm the one who "finds" it! :o But, after all is said and done, they stood behind their product 110% and made it all better! :D Now that I think of it, though....If ALL of their blades last THAT long, they might put themselves out of business! :eek: :cool:

[Mike Kelly]

I have had to have it resharpened by them a few times, so they are still making money on me!

[Scott Whiting]

John

It looks like you got pretty good treatment. Most factories would turn down a warrenty request on a cracked tip as abuse (whether intentional or not) because they cannot control how that blade is treated once it leaves the factory.

A vertical crack can be caused by many things and will quite often not actually show up until sometime after the actual trauma. Forrest uses a very hard carbide that while not as brittle as Frueds can be cracked fairly easily even by setting it down to hard on the saw table. That is part of the price of having carbide that holds an edge well.

[John Miliunas]

John

It looks like you got pretty good treatment. Most factories would turn down a warrenty request on a cracked tip as abuse (whether intentional or not) because they cannot control how that blade is treated once it leaves the factory.

A vertical crack can be caused by many things and will quite often not actually show up until sometime after the actual trauma. Forrest uses a very hard carbide that while not as brittle as Frueds can be cracked fairly easily even by setting it down to hard on the saw table. That is part of the price of having carbide that holds an edge well.

Yeah, Scott. I AM quite happy with the treatment received! You're right about what "most factories" would probably do and Forrest chose to honor their good name. I'm aware of the brittleness of carbide and have always been extremely careful with my blades for many related reasons. For one, I typically choose to buy better (read as: more expensive!) blades and would rather not be taking a chance on finding out if the factory will honor a warranty or not! Secondly, there's always the safety end of it; Knowing carbide for being what it is and also knowing that family members like to pay me visits while I'm working in the shop, I'd rather not have myself OR them be the recipient of some carbide shrapnel! :eek: Besides, I really missed being without my favorite blade for nearly two weeks! (NOT Forrest's fault, but UPS took forever on the blade trip to NJ.) :cool:

[Darrick Robbins]

Hey guys,
I just wanted to add my two cents. I had the exact same problem with the WWII--just lost a tooth, and almost brand new. They were great to deal with and the new blade just arrived. Very pleased that they stood by their product even though I was just barely out of their 30 day trial period. Love the blade and am now very impressed by their customer service.
Darrick Robbins

[christopher webb]

i am sorry to hear of all your problems with the forrest blade....i myself do not like there blades at all....there way too expensive....to heavy ...and just do not seem to be to my liking , i have the wwII and well it just was not worth the extra money, cmt and freud all make blades in my oppinion that are just as good or better simpilly because of the cost ......good luck on your next pieces ....may you make well and sell high

chris

[glenn bradley]

This is so depressing. I just bought a WWII and have only made a few cuts. I must say it is not as good on cross cuts as an 80 tooth Freud or as good at ripping as a 24 tooth. I didn't expect it to be. I bought it because it is supposed to be a better-than-the-rest multi-purpose blade that prevents you from having to change blades so often for cuts that aren't THAT critical.

So many Creekers said this was THE blade for such work; I hope it performs well in that capacity. I'll repost after some hours with the blade on my latest red oak project. Fingers crossed.

[CPeter James]

I have both Forrest and Ridge Carbide and like the Ridge better. After a lot of use on some tough lumber, I chipped a tooth on the Ridge. Sent it in and they did charge me $5 to fix it on top of the sharpening fee, BUT..... it was better than new. When Forrest sharpens my blades, they are never as good as new. Just my experience.

CPeter