An Attempt at a Jointer Plane

[Phillip Pattee]

Al Navas built his Krenov smoother recently, which inspired me to get to work on this. I've had the block of padauk for awhile with the idea of making a jointer plane. I followed the process for the "Linux plane project" found here: http://linuxplane.awardspace.com/index.html (http://linuxplane.awardspace.com/index.html)

It is serviceable. I can adjust the mouth and was able to take large shavings, about 0.015", and much thinner shavings, < 0.002". It is 23 1/2" long, 2 5/8" wide. I used Lee Valley 1 7/8" A2 blade made for wooden planes. It's tall for the body shape but it works!

The overall design is inspired by Terry Gordon's planes, Derek Cohen's big jointer, and Steve Knight’s work--I'll borrow from anybody.:D My idea was to shape the back behind the blade as a hand rest. It's comfortable enough but I may still modify the plane by adding a tote later.

[John Keeton]

I think it is a good looking plane, but the pictures are really out of focus. Does your camera have a macro setting? Yours looks to be a really nice looking accomplishment - but better pics would be nice;)

I know absolutely nothing about woodies, but I am enjoying seeing everyone's shop made planes.

[Jim Koepke]

Nice plane.

Taking pictures in the shop is so hit or miss for me. Using a tripod helps quite a bit. My camera does not have a bulb release. Using the timed release does seems to help get rid of any source of movement.

jim

[steve swantee]

Good looking plane, Phillip. What angle is the iron bedded at? It looks to be steeper than 45 from the picture. I'm not sure about not having a rear tote either-you might have to put it to work for a bit and see if you really need one or not.

Steve

[Phillip Pattee]

Thanks guys. My photography skills are poor, but I would rather get better a wood working--I'll see if I can get my son to help me. If I can get some decent pics, I'll post those later.

The blade is bedded at 60 degrees. This doesn't have a chip breaker. Experienced plane makers, like Terry Gordon, bed theirs at the higher angle to ensure the chips roll up and out. Same thing with some of the Mujingfang planes. I followed their lead. The higher angle also should help on figured wood. I can also reverse the blade and scrape with it--again, credit to Terry Gordon. I already have a stanley #7, so I didn't need another jointer that did the same thing.

[Joel Goodman]

Nice plane! I think the camera is moving during the first photos, I think it's a focus issue on some of the closer shots. Try squeezing off a shot -- think of shooting a rifle.

[fred west1]

Thanks guys. My photography skills are poor, but I would rather get better a wood working--I'll see if I can get my son to help me. If I can get some decent pics, I'll post those later.

The blade is bedded at 60 degrees. This doesn't have a chip breaker. Experienced plane makers, like Terry Gordon, bed theirs at the higher angle to ensure the chips roll up and out. Same thing with some of the Mujingfang planes. I followed their lead. The higher angle also should help on figured wood. I can also reverse the blade and scrape with it--again, credit to Terry Gordon. I already have a stanley #7, so I didn't need another jointer that did the same thing.

Phillip,

That is truly a gorgeous plane. Out of curiosity, have you had any issues with stiction? Also what does it weigh? I am currently building a table out of paduak and love the wood but find I have a slight allergy to it. Did or do you have any issues with the wood. Mine manifests itself through a tingling in my fingers. I will also be interested to see how you think it handles when/if you put a tote on it. Anyway, thank you for the pictures.

Fred

[Phillip Pattee]

Hi Fred,

I actually had to look up “stiction” but if you mean the tendency of two surfaces to adhere together, no I haven’t had any issues with that. The plane weighs 3 lbs. 1 oz.

I also haven’t had any issues with allergic reactions to padauk. I do, however, get allergy shots for just about every known allergen except food. That may reduce my sensitivity to the wood. Even with that, cedar still makes my skin itch. Many other woods do cause irritation and some are toxic—especially if you breathe the dust. Padauk is relatively mild compared to other woods like cocobolo and black locust. Wood turners have some good resources on that topic, here is one: http://www.gvwg.ca/docs/Articles/WoodToxicity.htm (http://www.gvwg.ca/docs/Articles/WoodToxicity.htm).

I wear safety glasses and a dust mask. The glasses keep foreign objects out of my eyes and also help reduce irritation from dust. The mask reduces the amount I breathe in—something we should all avoid.

Hand tools produce less dust than power tools. This, and that they are quiet, are some of the reasons that I am steadily gravitating to hand tools.

If you are having reactions to the padauk, latex gloves might help. When you put a finish on the table, that barrier should prevent any more reaction.

I haven’t put a finish on the plane yet. I expect I’ll use BLO, shellac, and wax. I am open to suggestions though. What do you guys suggest?

[fred west1]

Hi Fred,

I actually had to look up “stiction” but if you mean the tendency of two surfaces to adhere together, no I haven’t had any issues with that. The plane weighs 3 lbs. 1 oz.

I also haven’t had any issues with allergic reactions to padauk. I do, however, get allergy shots for just about every known allergen except food. That may reduce my sensitivity to the wood. Even with that, cedar still makes my skin itch. Many other woods do cause irritation and some are toxic—especially if you breathe the dust. Padauk is relatively mild compared to other woods like cocobolo and black locust. Wood turners have some good resources on that topic, here is one: http://www.gvwg.ca/docs/Articles/WoodToxicity.htm (http://www.gvwg.ca/docs/Articles/WoodToxicity.htm).

I wear safety glasses and a dust mask. The glasses keep foreign objects out of my eyes and also help reduce irritation from dust. The mask reduces the amount I breathe in—something we should all avoid.

Hand tools produce less dust than power tools. This, and that they are quiet, are some of the reasons that I am steadily gravitating to hand tools.

If you are having reactions to the padauk, latex gloves might help. When you put a finish on the table, that barrier should prevent any more reaction.

I haven’t put a finish on the plane yet. I expect I’ll use BLO, shellac, and wax. I am open to suggestions though. What do you guys suggest?

Hey Phillip,

Thank you for the reply. I too have been gravitating toward hand tools in a very major manner. I love my big iron but I just feel far closer to the wood with my planes and chisels.

Strangely I have no issues with either cocobolo or black locust, however, thank you for the link.

I am going to use a shellac on my table and wax to finish it off.

Interesting that you have had no stiction (great word) but it may be that the wood on wood precludes that issue. That is nice and light. My #8 LN Jointer plane is a 10 lb monster but my gosh it plows through the wood just beautifully.:D

Fred

[Wilbur Pan]

That's a really interesting design. A couple of questions, if you don't mind.

1. I don't think I've ever seen a wooden plane where the body in back of the blade was that much thinner than the front. How did you come up with this design? Are you worried at all about the back moving differently from the front over time, due to the difference in thicknesses?

2. What kind of wood are you using that needs a 60° bed angle? The HNT Gordon planes are bedded that way, but they are also in Australia, and the local wood there is pretty hard to plane, from all accounts that I've read.

[Phillip Pattee]

Hi Wilbur,

Good questions. Let me see if I can shed some light on my reasoning.

1. a. I don't think I've ever seen a wooden plane where the body in back of the blade was that much thinner than the front. How did you come up with this design?

The block I started with was just over 2 ¾” by 2”. I oriented the grain so that the outside of the growth rings forms the sole of the plane, but that was on the narrow dimension of the wood. So to preserve a 2” center section I had to cut the pieces for the sides off of the top. I tried to make heel section half the height of the toe. With the bottomed trued, the toe is 1 7/8” and the heel is 31/32” (design was 2” and 1”). The heel section appears even thinner because I put on a camber that leaves the side looking a mere ¾” tall. The reason I put a razee on the plane is because I needed the wood to make the wedge and the adjustable mouth. In retrospect, I think I would try to retain a thicker heel section. We’ll see—if the plane doesn’t work out I can still make handles out of it.:D

1. b. Are you worried at all about the back moving differently from the front over time, due to the difference in thicknesses?

Not really. At 1” I don’t think I’m at risk for cupping. If some twist were going to be an issue I’ve already experience that and have planed it out to true the sole. The largest dimensional change will be along the width of the plane. The area most at risk for uneven expansion and contraction is the thickest part of the plane about 1/3 to ½ way back from the toe. So, if over time, I get convexity or concavity in the sole I think it will be here. The adjustable mouth and the razee will allow more moisture exchange around the bed and throat. Maybe I will find that the plane flexes too much.

2. What kind of wood are you using that needs a 60° bed angle? The HNT Gordon planes are bedded that way, but they are also in Australia, and the local wood there is pretty hard to plane, from all accounts that I've read.

Need? Probably nothing. That’s like asking a guy if he really needs a four wheel drive truck, a zero turn lawn mower, all those chokes for his shotgun, or a separate fishing pole for jigging, crank baits, etc. I have two #3 smoothers, three #4’s, a 4 ½, two #5’s, a 605, an HNT Gordon jack, a #6, a #7, a 60 ½, a 65, an 18, a modern Stanley block, a Miller Falls router plane, a 78, and an 80 scraper. (No, I don’t have a collection problem. I can quit anytime—in fact, I’ve quit several times already.) Making my own planes is just the next step in a hobby. I’ve got plans for other planes I don’t need, a krenov smoother in goncalo alves, a high angle smoother for polishing in purpleheart, someday an infill shoulder plane, and ultimately some other infill planes. If I’m going to learn to do that, I’ve got to start somewhere. So, anyway, its not the wood that needs a high bed angle, its my mental health that needs it.:rolleyes:

I did, however, four-square the padauk block used for the plane with my HNT Gordon jack plane. The blade is bedded at 55⁰ on this plane and it worked well. By comparison, I grabbed my standard Stanley bailey #5 jack plane to get the sole close to true and got plenty of tear out on the parts that form the sides of the plane (different grain orientation from the center section). I went back over the sole with my scraper but those edges could still use more work.

[Edward Miller]

That's a really interesting design. A couple of questions, if you don't mind.

1. I don't think I've ever seen a wooden plane where the body in back of the blade was that much thinner than the front. How did you come up with this design? Are you worried at all about the back moving differently from the front over time, due to the difference in thicknesses?


It's not a totally new design, though I do think it's a less common design for a plane. They're called Razee planes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razee_Plane

[Wilbur Pan]

Ah -- I see. I've seen Razee planes with handles before. I didn't know they were also made without handles. Thanks for the info!

[David Keller NC]

Philip - I've a basic question. I've been eyeing those LV blades for wooden planes because I've had difficulty finding antique uncut irons. Are they tapered in thickness over their length? I know that D.L. Barret and Sons sells tapered, uncut irons, but with them in Canada and me in the US, ordering just one or two is probably going to be cost prohibitive.

In a conversation with LN a while back, they mentioned that they were considering making and selling uncut tapered bench plane irons similar to their molding plane irons, but that hasn't come to pass yet, and they may have decided there's not enough market for them to make it worth their while.

[Phillip Pattee]

David,

Nope, no taper on the LV blades at all. Uniform 3/16" thickness. I think that if you were to even find a new tapered blade that you would still have to reshape or make a new wedge, would you not?

[David Keller NC]

Yes, mounting a new blade in an old plane almost always requires making a new wedge. But that wasn't why I was curious - I would like to make some new, traditional-style planes. That is if I can find some suitable quartersawn beech, apple or pear. Failing that, I may use QS cherry or maple, as they're a lot easier to get.

The reason that I want a tapered blade has to do with the geometry of a traditional plane. A wedge will hold, of course, with a parallel iron. However, if you ever get the iron/wedge stuck in the plane, it is really simple to get it unstuck if it has a tapered iron - you just tap the iron through the mouth of the plane.

I'm speculating here, but I do think that's why antique planes are made this way, not because it takes less wrought iron to make a tapered cutter. If you think about it, expansion/contraction of a wooden plane must've been pretty common in the days before climate control, perhaps even over the course of several days, and definitely over the course of a change from winter to summer. Having a way to easily extract the iron and re-set the wedge would've been a real advantage.

[Joel Goodman]

David Keller wrote:
"The reason that I want a tapered blade has to do with the geometry of a traditional plane. A wedge will hold, of course, with a parallel iron. However, if you ever get the iron/wedge stuck in the plane, it is really simple to get it unstuck if it has a tapered iron - you just tap the iron through the mouth of the plane."

Interesting. My thought is that the tapered iron (getting thicker at the bottom) resists the forces pushing the plane iron back better as the iron becomes thicker if it is minutely forced back, thus tightening the wedge. So for a given pressure from the wedge you get a little firmer hold on the iron.

[David Keller NC]

Joel - While true, my experience has been that this extra wedging force isn't really necessary to the use of the plane. That might not be true, though, if one were to use a blade that is highly polished over its entire length. The guy that runs Philly Planes argues that a tapered iron is totally unnecessary - I don't agree, but his planes have gotten good reviews.

It may just be a matter of perspective on my part, because I've had to work the iron and wedge free of a LOT of antique molding and bench planes. There's one caveat to this procedure of tapping the iron out of the mouth of the plane to free it up - you can't do it on a bench plane that has a double iron (a cut iron with a chipbreaker).

[Joel Goodman]

I imagine pushing a plane iron and chipbreaker through the mouth would be downright ugly - not to mention a lot of pounding!

Re: the taper on the iron -- perhaps my explanation is more intellectual than practical. I don't think the Gordon planes have a taper on the iron. The C&W's (I think tapered) have a warning that if the wedge is loose then the iron will drop through the mouth. Is the function of the little button on the Brese plane irons to prevent the iron from dropping through the mouth if the lever cap is accidentally loosened?

[David Keller NC]

I imagine pushing a plane iron and chipbreaker through the mouth would be downright ugly - not to mention a lot of pounding![/quote]

Yeah - Fortunately I was never green enough to try that, though I've used some pretty "inventive" methods at removing stuck double-irons in some bench planes, including the use of dry ice.:D


Re: the taper on the iron -- perhaps my explanation is more intellectual than practical. I don't think the Gordon planes have a taper on the iron. The C&W's (I think tapered) have a warning that if the wedge is loose then the iron will drop through the mouth. Is the function of the little button on the Brese plane irons to prevent the iron from dropping through the mouth if the lever cap is accidentally loosened?

I think that's actually something Ron said at one time or another. My experience is that if the level cap is loosened, the iron wants to back up and kerthunk against the front of the mouth - necessitating another honing session. My guess is that an iron with some amount of surface texture and a wedge that hasn't been polished smooth would hold just fine with an untapered iron. However, I can't prove that, as all of the ones that I've had or made had tapered ones.

I do know, though, that if you get a modling plane or a bench plane that's been waxed on the wedge or the iron bed by a misguided collector, no amount of taper to the iron will make the wedge hold.;)

[Michael Justice]

Hi Wilbur,

Good questions. Let me see if I can shed some light on my reasoning.......

If I’m going to learn to do that, I’ve got to start somewhere. So, anyway, its not the wood that needs a high bed angle, its my mental health that needs it.:rolleyes:


That's a verse of beauty, I don't care who you are...

And I always heard that the original reason for the taper was economics, which is why the 'irons' (as the purists call them) are exactly that - tool steel at the work edge and iron for the body. Tapering is the byproduct of the process. On some old irons you can see a line - similar to the line in Damascus Steel - where the two materials meet.

[David Keller NC]

"And I always heard that the original reason for the taper was economics, which is why the 'irons' (as the purists call them) are exactly that - tool steel at the work edge and iron for the body. Tapering is the byproduct of the process. On some old irons you can see a line - similar to the line in Damascus Steel - where the two materials meet."

That's true (the forge-welded combination of a wrought body and a steel tip). There are a lot of historical sources that note that steel was really expensive prior to the industrial processes that were developed in the 1850's.

But tapering the iron isn't a by-product of the welding process - it takes an extra step to draw it out and then flatten it.