Knife boxes for HIGH END Custom knives

[Dennis Peacock]

I have to make a small box with hinges out of Macassar Ebony for a custom knife maker. Yup...my first at this type of thing....but so has all my other projects!! :)

I've decided to make wooden hinges out of the same material. No paint here folks as this is a "high end" deal.

Any pointers on box design, dimensions and construction tips? I have 2 weeks to get this baby done...and it HAS to be perfect.

This knife is in the Thousands of dollars, :eek: so the display box has GOT to be "on the money". Any help in finding macassar ebony that is as solid black as I can get would be greatly appreciated.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Dennis, it sounds like you have a real challenge on your hands. :)


The last time I was in Curly Woods, Mike had a nice big block of Ebony about 4x4x8 inches. You might give Mike a call and see what he has currently:cool:

Please document your making of the case, I am interested in how you do it, and I will bet that others on the forum are also.

Two weeks to do it :confused: heck, I can't even get a plan together in two weeks :eek:

[Dennis Peacock]

Hi Dennis, it sounds like you have a real challenge on your hands. :)


The last time I was in Curly Woods, Mike had a nice big block of Ebony about 4x4x8 inches. You might give Mike a call and see what he has currently:cool:

Please document your making of the case, I am interested in how you do it, and I will bet that others on the forum are also.

Two weeks to do it :confused: heck, I can't even get a plan together in two weeks :eek:

I contacted Mike via email and he is out of country dealing with suppliers. I'll try and call Curlywoods tomorrow and see if I can get a chunk, but at $47 a boardfoot.....just glad I don't need to TWO!!!!! :eek:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Dennis, I have been giving this some thought since we chatted on the phone the other night. Due to the time constraints this knife maker has laid on ya, I would keep the design and construction as simple as possible. Just remember, simple can be elegant and offer the "cleanest" look. Here are some ideas I came up with: I would miter the corners, and maybe round them off if it looks appropriate for the application. Maybe just either dado or rabbet the bottom into the box.........this will also help square up the box when you glue up the sides. I find this to really help when I do my small decorative boxes, and this is essentially what you are doing. The top should mirror the same edge treatment as the bottom, and perhaps you could do a quick "Raised" effect on the top. As we discussed, the box should compliment the knife, and not overshadow the collectible knife it will hold. Beyond that, the only limiting factors are the time you have to complete the box, and your creativity. I think the knife maker will understand that he gave you very little time to complete this job, and he is more likely than not expecting something simple because of that. Just do a tight job on the joinery and finish, which I know you will, and just let your talent and skill speak for itself. I am gonna make a few calls tomorrow and see if I can find ya some Ebony................you're right...................we is TIGHT on time! ;)

[Dennis Peacock]

Just do a tight job on the joinery and finish, which I know you will, and just let your talent and skill speak for itself. I am gonna make a few calls tomorrow and see if I can find ya some Ebony................you're right...................we is TIGHT on time! ;)

Kev,

He wants a SIMPLE design with every sharp edge rounded over. No Corners and No edges...everything rounded. Wouldn't it be easier if I cut a single billet in two pieces and routed/carved the knife profile out and mortised the matching wooden hinges? No cutting or pieces, no gluing except for the hinges. He said he wants it to have NO finish....just sanded through 2,000 grit.

So.....Here we have it:

Knife presentation box.
3-1/2" wide
6" long
1-1/2" tall
Small black velvet pads at each corner on the bottom for feet (not to be seen)
No inlay work.
All edges are to be rounded with a 3/16" round-over
He and the buyer HATES brass....so I wanted to rule out brass hinges. However, he did say that if I wanted to forge some hinges out of solid sterling silver that that would look nice.!!! :eek:
Interior is to be covered with Black Velvet (no felt!!!)
Bottom profile of the knife in the bottom of the box.
top profile of the knife in the lid of the box.

Catching my drift now.????

[Greg Heppeard]

Dennis,

What about a lid that incorporates the hinge...kind of like a box joint with a stainless steel rod for the pivot point?

[Betsy Yocum]

Dennis - can't help with the design - but want to register my desire to see the finished product - sounds like quite a challenge. Hope this job pays well!

Good luck!!;)

Betsy

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis,

What about a lid that incorporates the hinge...kind of like a box joint with a stainless steel rod for the pivot point?

That's a NO-GO on that hinge design. He doesn't like "box joints". I don't want to be picky here Greg, but this guy makes knives that go for selling prices that start at the $10K, $20K range and <b>UP</b> from there.

He was upset that I didnt do wood inlay work in measurements of 0.0020" range.!!! :eek: Sheesh!!!! What would I be inlaying? Extremely small "splinters"? :confused: :rolleyes:

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis - can't help with the design - but want to register my desire to see the finished product - sounds like quite a challenge. Hope this job pays well!

Good luck!!;)

Betsy

Howdy Betsy....!

You can BET I will provide lots of details and pics for this one. If I can be the makers approval, I'll include pics of the knife as well.

Made from hand forged demascus steel, gold, silver and cheap stuff like that!! :eek:

He does metal inaly in his work and he does it under a 40 Power microscope! :eek: He says that many collectors will examine the knives with a 10 power eye-piece to see if they can spot any "sloppiness" in the work.

He wants me to purchase a $3K Pantograph to start doing wood inlay on the boxes for him, and I'm sure there will be a requirement for at least a 10 power or 20 power microscope in which I would be doing inlay work under.

Sheesh!!!! What have I gotten myself into.!!!! :confused:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Ok Dennis, I am with ya now. I like.............no, I LOVE the billet idea you have. That would be awesome, and I am sure the client would find that very appealing. I have seen a few boxes built like that. I call them "Clam Shell" boxes for a lack of a better description. That would be quick, clean and elegant to boot. Me thinks you are on the right track with that idea Dennis. Just remember to watch your fingers when doing this small work. Working safely is what I find most challenging about small work like boxes. A box like you described could be finished, with attention to detail, pretty quickly and it would require a minimum of material. Nice thinking Dennis..............way to think OUTSIDE the box..............no pun intended! :D

[Steve King]

Dennis,
How in the world did you get yourself into the predicament :confused:
Steve

[Lawrence See]

Dennis

A recent trip to the dentist triggered thoughts of ultra high speed air turbines and tiny tooling - dunno about whether water is reqiired for those things, though.

Speculatively,
Larry See

[Mike Cutler]

Dennis. Sounds like you got yourself a challenge on your hands. I'm sure you'll rise to the occasion tho'. As an aside though, I hope you realize that the "simple" display box is part of the total package. With the requirements and limitations that have been put on the presentation case design and construction, this will become a very valuable object in it's own right.
Thru swmbo I have met some of the finest stone, wood and crystal carvers in the US, If they were to do the work you presently have been commissioned for and possible future work as specified. The cost and value of the presentation case itself could easily equal and exceed the value of the knife itself, especially if future inlay design work will be held to .002 tolerances. I have seen intarsia stone and wood boxes with custom made gold hinges that sell for 500K and up. Do an internet search on the work of Susan Allen and Nikolai Mednedev and look at the jewlery work of Paula Crevoshay. Nikolai and Susan have work on display in the Smithsonian.
Don't sell yourself short here bro' This is a very demanding discipline of woodworking that borders on and becomes an art form in itself. Good luck!

[Dennis Peacock]

Well...

I just ordered some Gaboon Ebony (jet black) from Curlywoods in Dallas. Frank was a JOY to deal with and I would call and talk with him any ol' day. So now I will have wood by sometime Wednesday of this coming week. Sheesh!!!! A 4-1/2" by 19" by 1" board would be $50!!!! :eek: :eek: Now I've gotta find some 1,000 grit, 1,500 grit and 2,000 grit sandpaper! and I live where the finest sandpaper you can find is 600 grit!!!! :eek: :rolleyes:

Sheesh!!!! I gotta stop operating in the "panic mode"!!!! I can't seem to get nuttin' done!! :confused: ;)

[Michael Stafford]

One thought for hinging is to use brass or stainless steel pivot pins that can hidden by small plugs in the ends of the box. Using the same wood they are almost invisible depending on the design. I have built many small boxes where the pins were in place when the box was assembled or drilled and glued in place and concealed afterwards with the plugs. Wet/dry sandpaper can usually be found at some auto supply houses at much higher grits. Klingspor also carries higher grits. So does Woodcraft. The sanding pad kits that Mr. Salisbury is having tested goes to 12000 grit I believe. Ebony will show scratches that are visible to the naked eye well above normal 600 grit level of visibility.

[Steve Jenkins]

for really fine sandpaper besides auto supply try an auto paint supply store. They will have all kinds of wet/dry papers as well as neat polishing compounds. Steve.

[Dennis Peacock]

for really fine sandpaper besides auto supply try an auto paint supply store. They will have all kinds of wet/dry papers as well as neat polishing compounds. Steve.

Thanks Steve....I'll see what I can find.

[Scott Coffelt]

Paxton's Lumber in Kansas City has a large supply of ebony right now, didn't look close to see how black, but I am sure it is a par with most. It's about 30 drive each way for me, so I just can't pop and check. I wish I knew you were looking for it. I just got back yesterday from getting a load of QS Oak for a client's project.

Turn About Wood also carries a good supply.

[Steve Jenkins]

Dennis if you can't find the paper you want I have it here at the shop up to 2000 grit and I'd be glad to send you a few sheets of each grit. In the past I have been using mineral spirits to wet sand but I recently got some rub-cut oil (Mohawk) and it really works nice. Doesn't evaporate as quickly. Don't think I'd use it on bare wood though. If you are using a wipe on finish just wetsand with the finish for lube. Probably not telling you anything you don''t already know. Anyway let me know and I'll stick some sheets in an envelope and pop it in the mail. Steve

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis if you can't find the paper you want I have it here at the shop up to 2000 grit and I'd be glad to send you a few sheets of each grit. In the past I have been using mineral spirits to wet sand but I recently got some rub-cut oil (Mohawk) and it really works nice. Doesn't evaporate as quickly. Don't think I'd use it on bare wood though. If you are using a wipe on finish just wetsand with the finish for lube. Probably not telling you anything you don''t already know. Anyway let me know and I'll stick some sheets in an envelope and pop it in the mail. Steve

Steve,

I did find a auto paint store here in town that sells sandpaper up to 2000 grit. The only problem with that is that I will have to spend over $100 up front to get 3 grits of paper because they only sell it in "sleeves" and at $30 a sleeve, that's a little more than I need to spend just for this small box project. I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it just so I can get past this project. :rolleyes:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Dennis, I also have some paper on hand up to 2000 grit. I will gladly overnight ya some if you need it quick. Not sure who is closer, Steve or I, but that may not matter. If you like, I could Priority Mail some Monday morning. Just let me know! Good score on the Ebony too..............I knew you would find some somewhere! I can't wait to see some progress on the presentation box..............I know it is gonna be the BEST! Have fun with it. ;)

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis, I also have some paper on hand up to 2000 grit. I will gladly overnight ya some if you need it quick. Not sure who is closer, Steve or I, but that may not matter. If you like, I could Priority Mail some Monday morning. Just let me know! Good score on the Ebony too..............I knew you would find some somewhere! I can't wait to see some progress on the presentation box..............I know it is gonna be the BEST! Have fun with it. ;)

Kevin,

If I just had a little "reserve" money for occasions just such as this, I would be OK....but heck, I can't stock everything somebody may want! :eek: I hate needing something that I can't just run out and get.

Shoot, I just ordered $200 worth of shellac and stuff from Jeff Jewitt for this sewing machine cabinet and NOW...I'm needing wood and sandpaper for this knife box thingy!!!!!! On top of all that, I'm trying my best to get things lined up for the CSBBQ door prizes and time is getting tight on everything I'm doing. My new work schedule helps "some" but that's 4 days that I only get about 1 to 2 hours in the shop before I have to go back to work. Sheesh!!!!

To top all that....I had a guy call me today wanting me to make a replacement leg for his wife's kitchen table!!!!! I did tell him that he had better not be in a hurry for it as I was backed up already.!!!!!!! :eek:

[Mac McAtee]

and I live where the finest sandpaper you can find is 600 grit!!!! :eek: :rolleyes:
;)

Dennis,
There has to be an auto body and paint suppiler around there somewhere. For sure in Little Rock. They will have most anything you need in the way of polishing stuff. All the way down to stuff that is less abrasive than toothpaste.
Mac

[Cecil Arnold]

Dennis, I found fine grit paper, to 2000 gr. at, of all places, Sears. I don't know if Conway has a large enough Sears store to keep all the goodies that they would have in Houston, but it might be worth a try.

[Robert Cox]

I got some 2000 at either Wal Mart or TRak Auto last year.

[Dennis Peacock]

Ding-Ding..!!!!! I'll have to check the local auto parts stores. We have a few of those.

Sears? In Conway? Nope!!!!!

I'll find out fer shure on Monday.!! :D

[Dan Mages]

Wowsers!! Sounds like you have one heck of a project there!! Does this guy have a website? I want to know what a 10k knife looks like.

Best of luck and dont forget some pics!!

Dan

[David Rose]

But Kevin, if this guy wants inletting tolerances held to .002" that is going to be *very* time consuming! :confused: Maybe Dennis can cover some error in that with the lining cloth.

David


Ok Dennis, I am with ya now. I like.............no, I LOVE the billet idea you have. That would be awesome, and I am sure the client would find that very appealing. I have seen a few boxes built like that. I call them "Clam Shell" boxes for a lack of a better description. That would be quick, clean and elegant to boot. Me thinks you are on the right track with that idea Dennis. Just remember to watch your fingers when doing this small work. Working safely is what I find most challenging about small work like boxes. A box like you described could be finished, with attention to detail, pretty quickly and it would require a minimum of material. Nice thinking Dennis..............way to think OUTSIDE the box..............no pun intended! :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Wowsers!! Sounds like you have one heck of a project there!! Does this guy have a website? I want to know what a 10k knife looks like.

Best of luck and dont forget some pics!!

Dan

Dan,

Once I get maker and buyer approval, I'll post pics of the knife and the competed display box. :D

[Dennis Peacock]

But Kevin, if this guy wants inletting tolerances held to .002" that is going to be *very* time consuming! :confused: Maybe Dennis can cover some error in that with the lining cloth.

David

David,

He actually wants me to buy a $3K Pantograph to start doing the inlay work with. He said he'll teach me how to do inlay work to the finest detail and will help me find a used Pantograph....but only if he is happy with my work. :eek:

[David Rose]

Dennis, I was assuming this first one was to be hand inletted. So the inlay is what he wanted the high precision on... That's better, at least for this job.

The little brass inlay work I've done on gun stocks is relatively easy. Ebony is probably harder than walnut though. With walnut (doing hand work) simply bevel the piece(s) you are installing so that they crush fit into vertically cut walls. If you get them within a few thou they will compress the top edge of walnut more than that for an airtight fit.

David



David,

He actually wants me to buy a $3K Pantograph to start doing the inlay work with. He said he'll teach me how to do inlay work to the finest detail and will help me find a used Pantograph....but only if he is happy with my work. :eek:

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis, I was assuming this first one was to be hand inletted. So the inlay is what he wanted the high precision on... That's better, at least for this job.

The little brass inlay work I've done on gun stocks is relatively easy. Ebony is probably harder than walnut though. With walnut (doing hand work) simply bevel the piece(s) you are installing so that they crush fit into vertically cut walls. If you get them within a few thou they will compress the top edge of walnut more than that for an airtight fit.

David

No inlay work on this particular box. But plain on Eboy sanded to 2,000 grit with all edges and corners rounded over and wooden hinges.

The inlay work he wants me to do? How to you cut a piece of wood to a particular shape that is less that 0.0030" wide? :eek: I've pulled splinters out of my hand bigger than that!!

[David Rose]

I thought that was the "tolerance" he wanted instead of the size. :eek: I probably wouldn't notice a splinter that size.

David


No inlay work on this particular box. But plain on Eboy sanded to 2,000 grit with all edges and corners rounded over and wooden hinges.

The inlay work he wants me to do? How to you cut a piece of wood to a particular shape that is less that 0.0030" wide? :eek: I've pulled splinters out of my hand bigger than that!!

[Mac McAtee]

"less that 0.0030" wide?"

Dennis, that is the thickness of a normal human hair. You better think twice about accepting a commision like that.
Mac

[Dennis Peacock]

"less that 0.0030" wide?"

Dennis, that is the thickness of a normal human hair. You better think twice about accepting a commision like that.
Mac

Howdy Mac....

Yes....He works his inlay work under a 40x microscope. I told him that I was NOT going to do inlay work under a 40x microscope. ;)