Anchor seal entire bowl, no bag?

[Dan Forman]

Does anyone cover the whole bowl with a thin coat of Anchor Seal, then let it sit out and dry, without putting it in a bag? If so, what is the time line compared to coating end grain and drying in a paper bag?

Thanks,

Dan

[Greg Haugen]

Dan,
I've used a couple of different "agendas" with anchorseal, but I haven't bagged them afterwards. I used to only seal endgrain on the inside and outside as well as the whole rim. I usually leave the bowls in the shop while I continue to rough turning other bowls for about a week before moving them into my bowl storage area. The higher humidity helps during the first week to slowly adjust the bowls, no real big "shock" of dryness. I don't recall ever losing a bowl with this process due to a crack, however I did have one bowl that was "discolored" from where the anchorseal was and was not. It wasn't the anchorseal that caused it, but moisture. The endgrain retained more moisture that was sealed compared to the sidegrain that wasn't, hence "staining" the endgrain. I've done with over a hundred bowls and this was the only bowl that did it.

I'm currently using a "freezer" kiln and sealing all of the outside, rim, and none of the inside or if there's a lot of figure just a couple of inches of just the endgrain. Placing them in the kiln and returning them a month later. By not sealing any or very much of the inside. The bowls dry similar to the "DNA" soak method, from the inside out. I've lost very few with this method and it's quicker. I haven't seen any staining with this method.


I know Mahoney, in his first DVD, talked about sealing the whole bowl and letting it sit a year. But he's also in a desert so "result may vary".

[Steve Frederick]

I'm currently using a "freezer" kiln ...
OK, what's a freezer kiln? Sounds interesting.

[robert hainstock]

Dan,
I've used a couple of different "agendas" with anchorseal, but I haven't bagged them afterwards. I used to only seal endgrain on the inside and outside as well as the whole rim. I usually leave the bowls in the shop while I continue to rough turning other bowls for about a week before moving them into my bowl storage area. The higher humidity helps during the first week to slowly adjust the bowls, no real big "shock" of dryness. I don't recall ever losing a bowl with this process due to a crack, however I did have one bowl that was "discolored" from where the anchorseal was and was not. It wasn't the anchorseal that caused it, but moisture. The endgrain retained more moisture that was sealed compared to the sidegrain that wasn't, hence "staining" the endgrain. I've done with over a hundred bowls and this was the only bowl that did it.

I'm currently using a "freezer" kiln and sealing all of the outside, rim, and none of the inside or if there's a lot of figure just a couple of inches of just the endgrain. Placing them in the kiln and returning them a month later. By not sealing any or very much of the inside. The bowls dry similar to the "DNA" soak method, from the inside out. I've lost very few with this method and it's quicker. I haven't seen any staining with this method.


I know Mahoney, in his first DVD, talked about sealing the whole bowl and letting it sit a year. But he's also in a desert so "result may vary".

Are you actualy freeze drying the bowls? One might say "that's cool!
Bob

[Greg Haugen]

Here's a picture of it half loaded with peppermill cylinders of black cherry and walnut. It's a old, gutted, upright freezer with 1/2" holes drilled in the top and bottom 4 inches apart, there's about 15 or more holes on each end. The light is a simply "farm" light that I drilled out the center drain a little big so I can pass the plug through. I start with a 40 watt bulb and increase by wattage to 60, then finally 75. The light bulb heats the air, hot air rises goes out the top. Since the air is moving it also sucks air through the bottom. An inch thick roughed out bowl will dry in a little less than a month. The 3" cylinders took 3 months. Kelly Dunn, bowl turner from HI., is where I got the idea from and instructions. Actually, here is his exact email he sent me.

Refigerator kiln,
Get an old fridge or standing freezer. Free for the taking at landfill
dropoffs and applience repair shops.
Take out all things not needed. On the fridge cut out or take out the
divider section between the fridge and freezer compartments.
Drill some half inch holes in the top and bottom roughly four inches
apart. Get an outlet box and a ceramic lightbulb holder. Put that in
the bottom center. If the plug in wire for the fridge is still good
you can use that. Make a metal cowling to go over the light bulb. This
is just in case so nothing can fall and break the bulb and cause a
spark. Often aluminum was taken out of the inbetween section that is
perfect for a cowling.
The shelving, use ones from fridges and freezers that fit your
unit,can be started right above the light.
Rough turn your pieces to about an inch thick.
Bowls must be coated on the outside with green wood sealer to prevent
from cracking.Pen blanks and small items up to you.
Stack on the bowl sides leaving a very small space for air to travel
in the bowl. And fill the thing up. If you are not in a hurry a 40
watt light bulb can be used and as pieces dry pull them out and rotate
work from the top of the kiln to the bottom. No fan is needed with
this kiln. An air convection current will be created and will work for
you 24/7.
You will need a moisture meter. Even a cheap one will work for this.
Start with a 40 watt bulb. When the bowls are around 14 to 16 %
moisture pop in a 60 watt bulb. With the 40 watt bulb moisture will
drip from this thing. You can leave it or wipe it dry. That will all
be gone by the time you put in your 60 watt bulb. which should four
weeks or under for sopping wet bowls. In about a week the bowls should
be about 125 or less. Pop in a 75 watt bulb. It should be under a week
and the work will be 6 to 8%.If your kiln is in a cold area you may to
go up a 100 watt bulb to do the job. Turn it off and let it cool down
before removing the bowls. If a sixty or 75 watt bulb burns out before
the load is finished and the bowls are cold start with the 40 watt for
a day then move it back up one day at a time to not shock the wood.
When loading the kiln put your most stable woods the closest to the
heat. the bowls near the light will be finished before the ones near
the top are.If you want to pull out hot finished work from the bottom
wrap them in a towel so they cool slowly.


I've had great success with this system and it doesn't slow production like bagging
and DNA did.

[Greg Haugen]

Oops,
Here's the picture.

[Phil Labowski]

does this still work with those new energy saving lights? I would think it should, but was wondering if you'd tried it.

[Greg Haugen]

Phil, yes it should. You're only after the "heat" not the light and those bulbs do get hot. I haven't "dialed it in" yet. That's on the list of things to do once I get through "show season" this summer. Right now I need the kiln to run "as predicted". It would be just a matter of figuring out which bulbs would give off "comparable" heat of 40, 60, 75 watt bulbs. I'm not sure if their listed "compared to" wattage would be enough for the heat or not. There's no reason it wouldn't work, I just haven't figure out the "conversions".

[Chris Stolicky]

Phil, yes it should. You're only after the "heat" not the light and those bulbs do get hot. I haven't "dialed it in" yet. That's on the list of things to do once I get through "show season" this summer. Right now I need the kiln to run "as predicted". It would be just a matter of figuring out which bulbs would give off "comparable" heat of 40, 60, 75 watt bulbs. I'm not sure if their listed "compared to" wattage would be enough for the heat or not. There's no reason it wouldn't work, I just haven't figure out the "conversions".

I was following this thread because I was wondering if there was a specific method people use that works the best - i.e. anchorseal and roughed out bowls. Is it whole bowl or end grain? What about desert versus the humid east coast?

Anyway, in response to the lightbulbs...
I know that the cfl's can get warm, but I don't think they get anywhere near as hot as standard incandescent bulbs. That is actually part of the reason they 1) last longer, 2) use less power. The heat is actually lost energy that was not converted to light. I have never burned myself on a cfl.

I must say though, it is certainly an interesting concept. I'll never look at a fridge or freezer the same way again....

[Roger Wilson]

OK, what's a freezer kiln? Sounds interesting.

Nice set of articles here on how to build kilns:

http://www.woodturningonline.com/Turning/Turning_articles.html#drying

[Gary Max]

Around here-----if it aint got bark on it -----it gets a coat of Anchorseal.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I attended a demo by Mike Mahoney. He anchorseals the whole bowl and says he puts them on his basement floor and will not go above 2 to 3 ft above the floor. Since then I have started roughing a lot of bowls and have around 3 dozen turned from cherry, maple, elm, ash and oak. I am trying them totally coated with anchorseal and on the floor in a room in my shop that is cool and not much air flow. He said let them dry 120 days or more. Some are 5 months old and none have cracked. Time will tell but so far I am happy.

[Dan Forman]

I attended a demo by Mike Mahoney. He anchorseals the whole bowl and says he puts them on his basement floor and will not go above 2 to 3 ft above the floor. Since then I have started roughing a lot of bowls and have around 3 dozen turned from cherry, maple, elm, ash and oak. I am trying them totally coated with anchorseal and on the floor in a room in my shop that is cool and not much air flow. He said let them dry 120 days or more. Some are 5 months old and none have cracked. Time will tell but so far I am happy.

Bernie---Have you tried to finish turn anything after 120 days? I wonder how you know when they are ready? I would think the evaporation would be slow enough that it would be hard to see by weight.

I fully coated the last walnut bowl I turned. True to the others form the same tree, it was showing some cracks by the time I was done roughing it. I CA'd the cracks, then hit it with the Anchor Seal. Probably not a fair test subject, but it will be interesting to see how it fares.

Dan

[Greg Haugen]

Just from a "quick" test using a infrared temp gun. My current 40 watt bulb in the kiln is 181.2 degrees, that has been of for 2 weeks straight. I also have two of the "new" bulbs in the shop, both are "comparable to 60 watt" bulbs. After 30 minutes of being on they're reading 164.8 to 169.1 degrees. I'm going to purposely leave those two bulbs on today to see where they get to in temperature. At worst case scenario, the new bulbs may just have to be a little larger, maybe start with the comparable bulbs to 60, 75, and 100 wattages, or add another "outlet" for another bulb-run 2 instead of one. This is also just standard "household" bulbs, not heat bulbs like what would be used on a farm, pet stores, etc. So there are many other options as well.

[James Zumwalt]

How did you get those pepper mills rounded like that?

Thank you,
James Zumwalt


Oops,
Here's the picture.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Dan,
In reply to your original question, I anchorseal my rough outs but only the end grain and the rim. The moisture needs a way out and that is through the long grain. I live in eastern PA so our drying conditions are not severe. I would imagine an arid or super dry climate may need a different technique.
faust

[steve worcester]

I seal the whole bowl and put it on a steel wire racks in my shed. The shed gets the same heat and cold as anywhere else in the Texas climate, just no direct sun. I tend to rough out enough to where I pull out bowls years old to return to round.

As far as how long to leave them, if you are in a hurry (relative term) weigh them after 6 months over the course of a couple weeks, if they don't differ much in weight, it has reached the equilibrium moisture content for your area.

[Jack Gaskins]

I live in Indianapolis Indiana and it is the PERFECT spot for me to dry blanks. I have almost 200 roughed out blanks in my garage and only a few of them have checks or cracks. What I do is rough turn wet and make sure to round over the rim and CA glue any large cracks or knots then put anchor seal on the end grain then cut open a brown paper bag and wrap the bowl in the bag then cut out a large hole in the paper so the inside of the bowl can breath then stack it on a shelf and forget about it. I have only had a few crack or check and was able so far to turn out the defects.