Delta Contractor II for $200?

[David Milstone]

I am new to woodworking and looking for a table saw to get the feel of the activity/hobby. I'm pretty handy in general and get the "feel" of a new tool fairly easily, but little experience with "real" power tools for woodworking. Have used circular saw, 3 HP Hitachi router and small band saw for minor projects, models, etc. Plan to do mostly simple furniture (bookshelves, but can see expansion to larger projects over several years). Can't spend much now and saw must fit in half of two car garage that doubles as storage for outdoor items.

I was considering the simplest type of bench saw to test the waters, but I then found a used Delta Contractor-II 36-630 (apparently with all original equipment, Auto=Set mitre, stamped extension wings, etc.), Jet-Lock Micro-set fence, mobile base 50-286, dado insert 34-264, carbide adjustable dado set 35-825. $200 for everything.

Table has some rust that owner says "shouldn't be a problem". Do I need more information about this issue? Does it indicate other problems are likely due to chronic moisture exposure?

Is this a reasonable deal? I know this isn't a "real" Delta contractor saw, but is it a worthwhile improvement over a simple bench saw for a first timer? I expect to either realize woodworking is not for me, or make a major upgrade if I become seriously interested.

Thanks for your opinions. However this turns out I have already found your forum to be invaluable.

Dave

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I personally don't have any knowledge of that saw, but it's a Delta, and comes with a lot of stuff, so I'd jump on it for that much money.....

IF the rust is not bad. Surface rust is minor, but any deep rust will involve some money to correct.

Just my .02.

[Cary Falk]

I had a hard time finding a picture of this saw. But here it is for the rest of the folks.
http://www.govdeals.com/photos//844/Thumbnails/844_120_1.JPG

It appears to be the standard contractor saw with belt driven induction motor. I had the 36-680 for a few years and it was a great saw. About the only differences was mine had cast iron wings and a better(in my opinion) fence, the T2. I think it would be a step up from you benchtop unless you own the Bosch benchtop. Two hundred sounds like a good price with all of the extras he is offering. You could easily sell it if you don't like and not loose a whole lot in the deal. You can always offer less and see what happens.

[David Milstone]

Photo of rust is attached. Hard to tell how deep it might be or if there is focal pitting, etching, surface irregularities, etc. Owner says "should not be a problem" but I clearly need to view in person before purchase. Trying to avoid a useless auto trip if this is clearly too extensive to justify the asking price.

What, if anything can you tell from this photo?

Thanks again.

Dave

[Cary Falk]

[QUOTE=
What, if anything can you tell from this photo?

Thanks again.

Dave[/QUOTE]



That is certainly a lot of rust. If it is not pitted you will be fine. take one of those razor blades that are used to scrape windows with you. You can scrape a lot of it off and see if there is pitting. If no pitting load it up. WD-40 and a scotch brite pad will do wonders but it will take some elbo grease. I have seen Unisaws in worse shape that came out just fine.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Contractor II is a cheaper version on the original contractor's saw. With a little patience, you should be able to get a Model 10 (original contractor's saw) for under $200. A friend here had one last week for $125, OBO. I paid $120 for the last one I bought, and $225 for the one before that. I have a total of five, plus a Uni.

[David Milstone]

Bruce,

Thanks. Coincidentally, I just found a Delta 10" contractors table saw Model F10 with stand and wheels described as "superb condition" for $150 ask. Is the F10 the same as the original "Model 10" you refer to?

[scott spencer]

David - Does that model have a belt driven induction motor hanging out the back, and is it 27" deep from front to back? If so, it could be a good saw for you. If it's only 22" deep and has a universal motor inside the enclosure, $200 in used rusty condition is pretty steep for that saw, which is really just a compact saw with legs and a cast iron top as opposed to a true full size contractor saw. The rust shouldn't clean up with some elbow grease.

[David Milstone]

The original saw has induction motor extending from back, is 20x27 inch table, etc. Not a compact saw but not the "real" Delta contractor saw either. However, it has already sold.

But I am now finding several "real" Delta contractor saws for under $200, just as Bruce predicted previously. This is the origin of my question about the "Delta 10" contractors table saw Model F10" - is this the same as the "Model 10"? Also, is a Rockwell Model 10 the same as a Delta Model 10? I have found apparently good deals on the Delta F10 and Rockwell Model 10, but I'm not sure what they really are.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Along about 1984, Delta / Rockwell changed a few things about the contractor saw. First, they went from a 1.5 HP,TEFC motor to a drip proof 1.5 / 2.0 HP motor. No it doesn't make more HP on 220. It was down rated on 110 so it could work on a 15 amp branch circuit. Method of attaching motor bracket changed to allow for "tool less" removal of motor. Arbor pulley and method of attachment changed. Handles changed from polished aluminum to plastic. I have a Rockwell model 10 that has a one piece cast iron assembly instead of truss rods. Look at a couple of the saws and you will get a feel for what you are looking for. Used tools are like busses, there will be another along in a little while.

[David Milstone]

I found a Rockwell 34-345 tilting arbor saw with extension wings and stand for $75. This seems like a good deal if it is basically functional (I am awaiting the sellers reply to some basic questions), but since it is two hours away by car I would like some reassurance before starting such a long trip. Is the 34-345 a legitimate contender in the used contractor saw market? The owner just replied that the table and both extensions are "steel". Is this even possible that the table is not cast iron if it really is a 34-345? The online info I find indicates the table is cast iron.

How about a Delta 34-B tilting table saw for $160? (that sounds awkward)

Also, that Rockwell Model 10 (photo attached) is still out there for $150 ask (again, two hours away by car and in the exact opposite direction from the saw above!).

It's tough to visit to take a look. I'd be driving 8 hours to see both.

Thanks once again.

Dave

[Chris Rosenberger]

Dave,

Do not buy that saw. Get a real Contractors saw.
Do not go for anything less than that.
You will not be happy if you do.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Tonight, I sold a Delta 10" contractor's saw for $175. It's going to Habitat for Humanity in the Bahamas. Saw is in excellent condition. That will help give you a feel for prices. Bruce

[David Milstone]

Can a "real" Delta contractor's saw (not contractor II) be equipped with stamped steel extensions. Some sellers are saying this but it seems unlikely to me. Similarly, can a contractor's saw be direct drive, not belt? this is also claimed.

I found two cast iron extensions for very cheap. Are they likely to fit if they were not made for a particular saw? In other words, are the mounting systems standard or do they vary between all saws?

Thanks.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Some Delta contractor saws did come with stamped steel wings. Delta contractor saws have the motor hanging out the back of the saw & use a belt. Delta contractor saws used the same bolt pattern for the wings as a Unisaw & also used the same style blade inserts.
The cast wings for a contractors /Unisaw will measure 8" x 27" for wings with rounded corners & 10" x 27" for square corner wings.

[David Milstone]

I think I found one! Please see photos. Delta 34-410 seemingly in good shape. Is this truly a "Delta contractor's saw"?

Now, if I can just clear up a few details and talk the price down below $200 before investing 6 hours in the car to take a look (and hopefully bring it home). Why are all these saws so far from where I live? (No need to answer that last one.)

It does need to fit in my half-garage along with lots of other stuff when not in use. If the rails are removed for storage does the entire alignment process need to be repeated when setup again? If so is this a big deal, as in time consuming and/or error prone?

Thanks again for any and all input.

Dave

[Frank Guerin]

It looks like my old Rockwell with the (had) stamped wings. It has served me well for many many years. If you can keep it tuned up its a great saw but I would not drive 6 hours to get it even if it was free.

[Mark Smith, too]

David,

Since you are testing the waters as you say, I would counsel taking your time to find a good quality saw in reasonable condition. One thing that can frustrate a budding woodworker is poor quality tools. A table saw that can't be properly aligned or with a poor quality fence is just not worth whatever you pay for it. For many projects you can get on just fine with a 1 1/2 horsepower saw as long as it is aligned, has a good quality thin-kerf blade, and you don't expect to rip a lot of 4x4 hardwoods.

Cosmetics flaws, including some some minor pitting, are acceptable for meeting your goals. They won't impact what you can do with the saw. Someday you might want to upgrade, but you need to find out if woodworking is for you. I'd let cosmetics take a back seat to obtaining a solid saw that once put into good operating condition will produce good results. (If you can get both that's great, and you can probably do so with enough looking around.)

For $400 or less you should be able to get a saw that will truly let you develop your skills without constantly frustrating you. For just a little more you can get a very nice saw. Best wishes on the saw and on your future in woodworking.

Mark

[David Milstone]

Just as predicted here (I admit I was skeptical) I have found one each Rockwell Model 10 and Delta 34-410 between $150-$175. Both are about 20 years old with all original equipment and appear in good and fully functional condition by photos and owner report although I haven't seen either in person. The Delta (photos in my previous post) includes a "Precision Set" rip fence and "custom built 6 foot extension table" (whatever that means). The Rockwell photo is attached to this message. The mobile base and box may be included (awaiting answer).

Assuming both are in similar good operating condition is one clearly a better deal than the other? My reading indicates the Rockwell is more solidly built through the "guts" of the saw although both are good saws. Is parts availability for the Rockwell a significant problem compare to the Delta even though they are about the same age?

Should I discount blades, especially originals on 20 year old saws, since a new blade is almost always needed to optimize performance?

Finally, they are both about 90 minutes away by car. I can do that trip.

I hope to buy one of these even if someone else grabs one first.

Thanks again.

Dave

[Bruce Wrenn]

David, both saws are truly a 10" contractor's saw. The only draw back (to me) is both have the "crows feet" bases. It makes it a little harder and more expensive to get a "Delta" mobile base to fit. I prefer the Delta style to all others I have seen. Bruce

[David Milstone]

As soon as I committed to buy the Delta above the owner decided not to sell. I am viewing the Rockwell on Saturday. I'm getting the feeling the splitter/blade guard/anti-kickback apparatus are no longer with this saw because the owner didn't answer my question about this. Or maybe he just forgot. Anyway, I will see when I visit. How important is this? I've read that these things can be custom fabricated and maybe there is an advantage in doing that. Also, can a riving knife be added? I queried a SMC post about retrofitting a riving knife to a Delta Contractor saw (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=112419). Looks like a very significant project, but can it work on a Rockwell Model 10.

Thanks.

Dave

[David Milstone]

Thanks to this thread and everyone who contributed I am now the proud owner of a Rockwell 34-410 in more or less full working order. This was a contractor's saw (no pun intended) for twenty-some years and it shows. It's seen lots of use (reportedly used only for finish work and "actually not that much use" given its age - who knows the real story) and shows corresponding cosmetic changes (surface stain/oxidation of CI and paint scratches but no deep/pitting rust) but it all seems solidly intact. Needs a good reconditioning to smooth action of blad wheels, fence, etc. but everything works.

Of course, the splitter/pawls/guard are long gone but I was surprised
to find the rear mounting bracket for same is also missing. I can probably makeshift one. I would like to fit a splitter and then consider a guard. I am studying smc threads on these topics. And no manual - this should be available online.

I think I could have done better than the $150 selling price, but I knew I was buying (barring complete misrepresentation) after driving over an hour each way (and so did the seller). But I still think it is a reasonable price for the quality of the saw. $125 would have been better given the missing parts and cosmetic dings.

Thanks to all who offered advice. I've made a few simple test cuts and the difference compared to other saws I've used is really striking. I'll be seeing you on the Creek.

Dave